Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
"We have to concider them the enemy for all intents and purposes "
Noam Federman.
Look I never said reject the land. The land is perfect and the Torah is perfect. But the state could be a vehicle or an obsticle. Sometimes its the first, but in gneral its the later, expecially now where they dont even pretend to want to settle the land (and wish to give away Jewish land). -Unfortunatly thats the only time that some Jews understand who an enemy is, when they want to give land away, but what about all the other crimes? How can anyone look away from that, just because they were zionistic at one point.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 08:54:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 08:46:54 PM ---He mans that soon you'll join the rest of us and not consider yourself Charedi any more :D. I used to think I was Charedi when I was a little kid in Yeshiva but shortly realized that they were wrong on almost everything and tried to uproot my traditions and brainwash me into a blind mindless follower.
--- End quote ---
I used to think of myself as Chareidi, after all, I live in Boro Park.
But after learning the Satmar Rebbe's seforim in depth(more than any Satmar Chassid has anyway) and comparing it to the teachings of Rabbi Daweedh Bar Hayim, I don't consider myself a Hareidi at all.
There is no question that Hareidi Rabbis have no idea what G-d wants to see occur in this world.
--- End quote ---
Wow, thank you for that completely fallacious generalization.
Dominater96:
Many of the gedolai hador of the last 50 years accepted the state, and we just have to look at them to lead us. The Satmars and the NK are a tiny minority. Hacham Ovadia Yosef, Rav Shach, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, Rav Shlomo Goren, Rav Kook, Rabbi Kahane, etc. have accepted the state, but a couple of Talmedei Hachamim reject it so we follow? No, we look at the Gedolei Hador, and even though we may not agree with them on everything (land concessions) they still are the gedolei hador, and should be treated as so. I once heard that someone asked Rabbi Kahane who they should Psak by in Halacha. He answered them hacham Ovadia Yosef on everything besides matters relating giving away land etc.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: Dominater96 on January 10, 2008, 06:32:32 PM ---Many of the gedolai hador of the last 50 years accepted the state, and we just have to look at them to lead us. The Satmars and the NK are a tiny minority. Hacham Ovadia Yosef, Rav Shach, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, Rav Shlomo Goren, Rav Kook, Rabbi Kahane, etc. have accepted the state, but a couple of Talmedei Hachamim reject it so we follow? No, we look at the Gedolei Hador, and even though we may not agree with them on everything (land concessions) they still are the gedolei hador, and should be treated as so. I once heard that someone asked Rabbi Kahane who they should Psak by in Halacha. He answered them hacham Ovadia Yosef on everything besides matters relating giving away land etc.
--- End quote ---
Did Rav Kahane follow follow Sephardi Halacha and Minhagim? If I remember correctly, his father was originally from Tzfat, but I don't know if he was Sephardi...
kahaneloyalist:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 11, 2008, 12:31:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dominater96 on January 10, 2008, 06:32:32 PM ---Many of the gedolai hador of the last 50 years accepted the state, and we just have to look at them to lead us. The Satmars and the NK are a tiny minority. Hacham Ovadia Yosef, Rav Shach, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, Rav Shlomo Goren, Rav Kook, Rabbi Kahane, etc. have accepted the state, but a couple of Talmedei Hachamim reject it so we follow? No, we look at the Gedolei Hador, and even though we may not agree with them on everything (land concessions) they still are the gedolei hador, and should be treated as so. I once heard that someone asked Rabbi Kahane who they should Psak by in Halacha. He answered them hacham Ovadia Yosef on everything besides matters relating giving away land etc.
--- End quote ---
Did Rav Kahane follow follow Sefaradi Halacha and Minhagim? If I remember correctly, his father was originally from Tzfat, but I don't know if he was Sefaradi...
--- End quote ---
Rabbi Kahane zt'l was Ashkenazi, and I think he said to follow Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, not Rav Ovadia
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 09, 2008, 11:56:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 09, 2008, 10:54:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 09, 2008, 10:52:16 PM ---Actually, when Hannukah happened, the kingdom was rightious, but later it became corrupt and did bad things.
And about Rambam- you are acting like a christian missionary, who first makes an opinion and then brings some text and formulates that thinks of that texts from the first opinion. Rambam does not, I repeat does not say that having a wicked kingdom is a good thing, nor does he praise the wicked (which would be a Torah violation).
--- End quote ---
The kings may have been righteous, however a kingdom made up of Cohanim cannot stand forever; it is forbidden.
--- End quote ---
That's the irony, a forbidden halakically untenable kingdom and yet the Rambam clearly praises it.
--- End quote ---
This is a disagreement between the Rambam and tha Ramban, the Ramban, forbids any line but that of David HaMelech from ruling, the Rambam, rules any Jew who is from 2 Jewish from birth parents may be king. Hilchot Melachim, first Perek
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version