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Ask Zvulun ben Moshe
Tina Greco - Melbourne:
--- Quote from: Zvulun ben Moshe on February 19, 2008, 08:14:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 19, 2008, 12:27:56 AM ---Why did you change the name of your show?
--- End quote ---
It was done in the light of the surge in the number of Ask shows by JTF members
--- End quote ---
ok
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Zvulun Ben Moshe:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on April 09, 2008, 10:41:59 PM ---Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
--- End quote ---
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Zvulun ben Moshe on April 09, 2008, 11:13:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on April 09, 2008, 10:41:59 PM ---Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
--- End quote ---
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
--- End quote ---
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
Zvulun Ben Moshe:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on April 10, 2008, 03:14:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zvulun ben Moshe on April 09, 2008, 11:13:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on April 09, 2008, 10:41:59 PM ---Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
--- End quote ---
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
--- End quote ---
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
--- End quote ---
So, believing in Tanakh alone is not Judaism? OK.
Well, first of all, I said I believe Tanakh is the only divine inspiration. You, obviously, dont wanna tell me that Talmud is divinely inspired. I did say that Talmud is not 100% authority for me.
I hope that is clear.
Now. I have a question for you.
Who and when was first to introduce the idea of heaven and hell in Judaism?
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