Itamar ben Gvir: hero, agent, or both?!

[Mifletzet]

After the bona fide case of Shabak agent Avishai Raviv, accusations and suspicions that some in the right-wing camp are really agents persist and even abound .

Here Haifa University pundit Steven Plaut's (who himself has been accused of being a double agent!) take on the subject:



UFO conspiracy nut Barry Chamish gets clobbered
by Steven Plaut

Barry Chamish is best known for the hundreds of his "articles" about
imaginary conspiracies that he writes for Neo-Nazi and Holocaust Denial
web sites (if you think I am exaggerating, take a look at this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070125194603/http://www.barry-chamish.com/)
and for his infantile "theories" about the Rabin Assassination (file them
under fiction).  He has been peacocking around and celebrating the fact
that the Nazareth court ruled two years ago that I "libeled" anti-Semite
Neve Gordon, a ruling almost completely overturned by the Appeals Court this
week.  Chamish, who is upset that I debunked his "theory" about the Rabin
assassination, even set up a pathetic little web site to smear me and show
his own support for Neve Gordon harassment campaign against me.

   Chamish believes that anyone who disagrees with his own infantile
"theories" must be part of a global conspiracy.  In particular he is part
of the "911 Truth" cult, which claims that Israel was really behind the
911 attacks on the US, and Chamish likes to spread the "theory," invented
by Neo-Nazi kooks of thesort that blew up Oklahoma City, and that the
publishers of Foreign Affairs magazine control the world in a giant
conspiracy.

   Chamish had previously been repeatedly convicted in Israel of libeling
other people.  That, by the way, was real libel, not the make-pretend kind
to be found in Nazareth Court, under which disagreeing with a leftist
pro-terror anti-Semite is "libel."

   Well, here is YNET news on Chamish finally getting his comeuppance:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3515658,00.html
Is calling rightist a "Shin Bet agent" libelous?

Website owner Barry Chamish ordered by court to pay Itamar Ben-Gvir NIS
36,000 in damages
Aviram Zino


Barry Chamish, owner of several internet websites, was ordered Thursday by
the Magistrates. Court to pay extreme right-wing activist Itamar Ben-Gvir
NIS 36,000 (about $10,000) for referring to the latter as a Shin Bet agent
on one of his sites.



Magistrates' Court Judge Oded Shaham ruled that this statement is libelous
in nature, and ordered Chamish to pay Ben-Gvir the aforementioned sum in
damages.


Extreme Right

Rightists 'dress' Peres in a kaffiyah / Efrat Weiss

Jewish National Front movement distributes posters in Jerusalem showing
president wearing traditional headdress of Arab men with writing,
'Releasing terrorists, a president of Arabs'
Full story



According to the court.s verdict, on April 15, 2005, Hamish published an
article on his website entitled .Eskins Folly..



In the aforementioned article, Hamish stated that .Ben Gvir is clearly .a
Shin Bet agent, a provocateur. He had committed criminal offenses so many
times over.. He is on trial every other month but is always acquitted on
some technicality.. Several additional articles in this vane are
furthermore quoted in the verdict.




Judge Sahahm noted that .these publications portrayed Ben-Gvir as a
dishonest and dangerous man. Ben-Gvir was deemed a traitor to his
right-wing cause in these articles, and was even accused of committing
fraud.



"Some of these articles indicate that Ben-Gvir, while apparently opposed
to the Gaza pullout, worked actively to thwart all opposition to the
disengagement, and others even stated that he convinced a man to stone an
innocent bystander to death. All of these assertions undoubtedly
constitute libel..





In reaction to the verdict Ben-Gvir stated, . I have no doubt that some of
the malicious rumors circulating about me originated from Shin Bet, and
were designed to cause rifts and arguments.



"I never, however, stopped working on behalf of the Jewish people and the
;and of Israel, irrespective of how hard the Left has tired to stop me..


Plaut


Chamish


Ben Gvir

[Ultra Requete]

So his conspiracy theory about Vatican taking the Jerusalem old city is crap too?  We here in Poland can't find out who was a comunist secret service and who was not despite having special reasearch intitute analising the files left by comunists for ten years, and this Barry Hamish knew who is Shabak agent?

[q_q_]

israeli intelligence admitted avishai raviv was an agent.

according to chamish, avigdor eskin admitted it in a case where he tried to sue chamish. chamish gave details, but I do not have the facilities to look it up.

They follow similar patterns. Arrested often, then released immediately. Sometimes even arrested many times in one day.
(purpose being so media see it and say "look at the crazy right")

Suspicious behaviour is quite common.

Remember. it is not like with communists in russia , where agents tried to fit in, and just passed secrets. The agents here also serve a different purpose, their job is to act -really- extreme, to provoke other rightists, in order to make rightists look bad.

If you google around for secret portion of shamgar inquiry, you will find where israeli intelligence produced a report saying avishai raviv's purpose. as agent provacateur.

Regarding steven plaut. He is a dishonest person.. It was all over Chamish's articles, why he went to the holocaust deniers campaign.  He was presenting the view of "holocaust believer" , and selling his books no doubt. And his philosophy seems to be for the truth to get out to whoever will listen. (rather than not hanging out our dirty laundry).  Plaut  with minimal research - that he probably did - would have known this. Plaut works with Pipes to smear people they don't like.   

They even tried and failed to ban chamish from one particular website - threatening the website so they remove his articles. The editor of the website wrote an article all about it, and how disgusted he was. I do not remember the website's name.

Pipes wants a p@lestinian state, (just not yet, perhaps. Given the terrorism). Plaut by such association probably agrees with that political solution.

Anybody with an email account e.g. yahoo, that receives chamish's emails, can search them and find things quite fast. 

[Mifletzet]

Well that policeman in the photo, who seems to have a few felafels on his shoulder (what rank?) does look suspiciously insouciant and unperturbed by Ben gvir's shouting anti-leftwing profanities in his ear 'ole.

Almost as though he'd been ordered to ignore Ben Gvir's incitement!

[Mifletzet]

That police man seems to have three felafels, making him either a Chief Inspector or a Commander

http://www.police.gov.il/english/AboutUs/Ranks/xx_en_ranks.asp





Being that rightwingers rarely rise above the rank of sergeant in the Israeli Police Force, one has to take it that the policeman is a leftist.

I find it hard to believe that a leftist policeman would let Ben Gvir scream "Death to Olmert!" and F*** Zahava Gal-On!" into his ear with equanimity, unless he'd been ordered to permit it.

It's definitley very sus!

[MassuhDGoodName]

This is what is known in literature as a classic diatribe, and is a poorly written one.

The publishers of 'Foreign Affairs' magazine, just so happen to be Council on Foreign Relations; the same organization which is currently destroying American sovereignty, creating another Al-Qaeda Terrorist State of KOSOVA, and refusing to recognize Jewish sovereignty over Judaea, Samaria, and the city of Jerusalem.

Yet the writer claims any recognition of this fact to be "an imaginary conspiracy theory".

The coroner who conducted the autopsy on Yitzhak Rabin has testified in a court of law that "the official story" of Rabin's assassination can not be true based on his scientific analysis of Rabin's wounds.

Yet the writer of this article claims that he debunked Chamish's "theory" about the Rabin assassination.

I have read Chamish's articles about the Rabin assassination, and they are replete with documented affidavits and the sworn testimony of the key witnesses.

Also well-documented by Chamish is how Steven Plaut, in order to thoroughly discredit Chamish for publishing documented facts about the Rabin assassination, created and hosted a phony website under the name "http:www.barry-chamish.com" which contained numerous ramblings designed to smear Chamish, and since then has referred to this fake website (exactly as has been done in this article) to deceitfully convince readers that they have reached the official Chamish website.

There is more truth in any one sentence written by Barry Chamish, then there is to be found anywhere in this rambling Left-Wing Smear Job.

Only a mentally ill Jew will constantly denounce the UN, the EU, and the Arab League, for conspiring to destroy the Jewish State and commit a final Holocaust against the Jewish People; yet will in the same breath claim that "anyone who believes in conspiracy theories" must be denounced as a crazy person.

And if Chamish's investigative journalism, motivated solely by his love for Israel and the Jewish People, should be read and considered with some degree of healthy skepticism, then all the more skeptical should JTF members be when reading articles written to defend the Israeli status quo which are penned by an Israeli Professor from Haifa University.

So, Jew.... Make up your mind...

Because if Chamish is a nutjob for investigating the crimes, corruption, and conspiracies of the Labor Zionists, then the UN, the EU, and the Arab League, are completely neutral and totally unbiased against Israel and the Jewish People.

Your post here was first published years ago, and is nothing but a propaganda smear piece designed to bias readers against Chamish before they have a chance to read his works and make up their own minds.

[q_q_]

<snip>
The coroner who conducted the autopsy on Yitzhak Rabin has testified in a court of law that "the official story" of Rabin's assassination can not be true based on his scientific analysis of Rabin's wounds.

I have gone through the pain of reading what chamish has written.. And I saw his video.

I did not see that though.

Maybe the coroner`s report contradicted the official findings. But what is your source that he testified in court that the official story cannot be true?

[Mifletzet]

The latest from Chamish on ben Gvir:



" At a young age, Ben Gvir was already cooperating with a Shabak sting operation. And I have another tape from December of the following year, as well as the police written records of it. After the Rabin murder, Yigal Amir was interrogated by the police:

Amir: I got to the demonstration and saw a friend from Likud youth on a bus. He told me that Itamar Ben Gvir wanted to kill Rabin tonight. He said Avishai Raviv gave him a gun with blanks in it. "You know about this, of course," he said. "I told the police about it." I laughed. In recollection I can't figure this one out. But there were a lot of strange things...

Previous to the Rabin murder, Ben Gvir engaged in some nasty acts. He and his gang
jumped on the car of cabinet minister, Binyamin "Fuad" Ben Eliezer while he was in it.
Though he threatened the life of a cabinet minister, Ben Gvir was not jailed.
And that gave him time to personally place a note on Rabin's car which read,
"We got to his car,. next time we'll get to Rabin."

So, for threatening the murder of the prime minister, is Ben Gvir imprisoned like the
rest of us would be? Of course not. That gives him the time to threaten to kill a singer,
Sinead O'Conner:

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/
6511/edition_id/121/format/html/displaystory.html

Friday June 27, 1997
Singer slams threats of right-winger
NAOMI SEGAL
Jewish Telegraphic Agency
JERUSALEM -- Israeli police plan to question an extreme right-wing activist on
suspicion of threatening Irish pop star Sinead O'Connor.
O'Connor canceled her scheduled appearance at a concert Saturday night in
Jerusalem's Sultan's Pool after receiving death threats. The concert, billed as being
for "Two Capitals, Two States," was sponsored by Israeli and PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi women's groups.

No one claimed responsibility for the threats. However, ultra-nationalist Itamar
Ben-Gvir said in an Israel Radio interview that he "understood" those who sent the threats.

While not claiming responsibility for the threats, Ben-Gvir said that he and his
supporters had succeeded in getting the concert called off.

So how do you like that? Ben Gvir admits that he and his cohorts "succeeded" in getting the concert cancelled, which means he admitted to threatening the life of Sinead O'Connor. As far as anyone knows, murder threats are a serious felony in Israel, but not for Ben Gvir. One can only surmise that Ben Gvir made the threats for some organization powerful enough to keep him out of prison. Ben Gvir's activities are so obvious, that even his most likely allies have issued the claim that he is a Shabak agent:

http://www.forum.hr/showthread.php?s=b64dbbc322f9703e92a3ee10aa62cbcf&th
readid=64085&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Article has a statement from Kahane Chai ("Kahane Lives"), and a quote
from the activist Itamar Ben-Gavi:

First, it's Ben Gvir... And I think it's clear to anyone who follows Israeli press that he
is a Shabak agent provocateur or just plain idiot. Possibly both. He has broken the
law so many times, has a new trial each month, and every time he is let out on a
technicality... I know several Americans who moved in JDL and later Kach circles
and they are all 100% sure that he is a Shabak provocateur.

http://www.yesha.org.il/article-178174.html&pr=norton&se=áï%20âáéø%20ùáë
3. ( 27/2/2005 19:47)

From the settler's site: "Itamar Ben Gvir, I'm afraid you are a Shabak agent."

But these sites barely scratch the accusations as compared to other popular Israeli
news sites:

http://www.bsh.co.il/forums/ShowMessage2.asp?id=58066&Fnumber=33&SunId=0
http://rotter.net/forum/politics/7609.shtml

These sites list the activities of and accusations against Ben Gvir, from the first such public accusation in Makor Rishon all the way back to 1993. Shahaf Pilovitch writes in Rotter.net:

The Jerusalem District Court acquitted Itamar Ben Gvir of Intimidation Of The Court and Insulting A Public Officer. Ben Gvir distributed posters throughout Jerusalem accusing Judge Tzvi Segal of being a 'threat to the Right and the settlers. If he doesn't alter his leftish views outside the court, he should not last long as a judge.'And the court acquitted him? Sounds a lot like Avishai Raviv, no?

Pilovitch concludes:

Itamar Ben Gvir is a Shabak operative and it is up to the public to put a stop to him because the political system which employs him won't. Our politicians work hand in hand with him and none are going to expose the fact that other Avishai Ravivs continue his legacy of destroying the Right from within.

I e-mailed Amir Shouan what I proved within 2 hours:

Main points:

Ben Gvir was called a Shabak provocateur for his activities in Gush Katif by Arie Eldad
and Nadia Matar. Matar asked the police to remove him from Gush Katif for his activities.

He sued Arie Eldad for the accusation.

Where Ben Gvir, supposedly a student, finds the money for his serial suits goes unanswered.

Ben Gvir was accused of being a Shabak provocator in both Makor Rishon and Hatsofe.
He sued Hatsofe for the accusation.

Most telling: Ben Gvir was accused of being a Shabak provocateur in the Kahane
Chai and Yesha websites. And they should know. Other websites who have so accused
him include rotter.net and bsh.co.il

Ben Gvir organized a staged training camp for Eyal youths which included shooting at effigies of Arabs. This camp became a television report made for IBA Channel One by Eitan Oren, accused of being a Shabak Agent by the late Adir Zik in his radio broadcasts and reports for Hatsofe. On Nov. 3/05, I appeared on Channel Ten's London And Kirschenbaum program. There Kirschenbaum, who was the chairman of the IBA in 1994, admitted that the report organized by Ben Gvir was staged. "

[Lubab]

The more I read of Chamish the more I like the guy. His opponents seem so petty and anyone the Israeli government hates so much has to be good for Israel.

[Mifletzet]

According to Chamish, unfortunately a Lubavitcher rabbi played a role in having Chamish's talks cancelled:

" I have just returned from Miami where Plaut succeeded in getting my two appearances cancelled. Luckily, a fine Chabad rabbi, Alon Razla offered me his synagogue for two lectures, so the trip ended up being reasonably successful. AND we got to the bottom of what he did and who Plaut is. And that is largely the result of a middle-aged woman who knew him while growing up in Philadelphia.

 "What Plaut did was send a defaming article by Daniel Pipes which listed some anti-Jewish sites he found on the net which published you,"she began. "Steve Plaut supplied him with the sites. These were forwarded to a Chabad rabbi/singer from Kfar Chabad named Rabbi Tuvia Bolton. He will be punished for spreading Lashon Hara without even asking you if the rumors were true. He sent the article to Rabbi Yosef Korf, who used his influence to get your speeches cancelled. He is naive and that's how Plaut works. He gets other people with real influence to do his dirty work. And he's always worked like that."


Tuviya Bolton

[Lubab]

According to Chamish, unfortunately a Lubavitcher rabbi played a role in having Chamish's talks cancelled:

" I have just returned from Miami where Plaut succeeded in getting my two appearances cancelled. Luckily, a fine Chabad rabbi, Alon Razla offered me his synagogue for two lectures, so the trip ended up being reasonably successful. AND we got to the bottom of what he did and who Plaut is. And that is largely the result of a middle-aged woman who knew him while growing up in Philadelphia.

 "What Plaut did was send a defaming article by Daniel Pipes which listed some anti-Jewish sites he found on the net which published you,"she began. "Steve Plaut supplied him with the sites. These were forwarded to a Chabad rabbi/singer from Kfar Chabad named Rabbi Tuvia Bolton. He will be punished for spreading Lashon Hara without even asking you if the rumors were true. He sent the article to Rabbi Yosef Korf, who used his influence to get your speeches cancelled. He is naive and that's how Plaut works. He gets other people with real influence to do his dirty work. And he's always worked like that."


Tuviya Bolton

Don't think I'm a big fan of everything every lubavitcher does just because I'm a Lubavithcer.  I follow the Rebbe and my personal Rabbi and those are about the only two people whose behavior I would vouch for.

[q_q_]

Chabad are almost the only religiously right wing gruop that have welcomed him..  Maybe the only one..

So, silly comment there that 1 chabad rabbi had a part in cancelling him.  I don't know what you are trying to suggest. Or whether you think your factoid is of any significance

[Mifletzet]

Here Chamish's latest missive. Any comments or criticisms?!



www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com

new, watch 



                                       I CAN NEVER GO HOME ANYMORE. BIG DEAL! by Barry Chamish

                                                   
     Well, my fine readers, I made the headlines in Israel again. I lost the following "legal" action:   


Is calling rightist a ‘Shin Bet agent’ libelous?
Website owner Barry Chamish ordered by court to pay Itamar Ben-Gvir NIS 36,000 in damages

Aviram Zino
Published:  03.06.08, 11:25 / Israel News

Barry Chamish, owner of several internet websites, was ordered Thursday by the Magistrates’ Court to pay extreme right-wing activist Itamar Ben-Gvir NIS 36,000 (about $10,000) for referring to the latter as a Shin Bet agent on one of his sites. 

Magistrates’ Court Judge Oded Shaham ruled that this statement is libelous in nature, and ordered Chamish to pay Ben-Gvir the aforementioned sum in damages. 

According to the court’s verdict, on April 15, 2005, Hamish published an article on his website entitled “Eskins Folly”. 

In the aforementioned article, Hamish stated that “Ben Gvir is clearly …a Shin Bet agent, a provocateur. He had committed criminal offenses so many times over…. He is on trial every other month but is always acquitted on some technicality…” Several additional articles in this vane are furthermore quoted in the verdict. 

Judge Shaham noted that “these publications portrayed Ben-Gvir as a dishonest and dangerous man. Ben-Gvir was deemed a traitor to his right-wing cause in these articles, and was even accused of committing fraud. 

"Some of these articles indicate that Ben-Gvir, while apparently opposed to the Gaza pullout, worked actively to thwart all opposition to the disengagement, and others even stated that he convinced a man to stone an innocent bystander to death. All of these assertions undoubtedly constitute libel.” 

In reaction to the verdict Ben-Gvir stated, “ I have no doubt that some of the malicious rumors circulating about me originated from Shin Bet, and were designed to cause rifts and arguments. 

"I never, however, stopped working on behalf of the Jewish people and the ;and of Israel, irrespective of how hard the Left has tired to stop me.”

       What should be known is I didn't even fight this case. I knew it was lost in the rigged world of the Israeli court system. I found out how crooked the courts are while fighting Avigdor Eskin. After losing the case, as is my right, I submitted an appeal based on another trial where Eskin told the court that, "I have worked for the Shabak." Two witnesses, attorney Dov Even-Or and my lovely girlfriend at the time, Zippora, watched me take the court files to be notarized and submit the appeal to the judge. And they watched the judge flaunt Israeli law by refusing to accept my right to appeal. I knew then that I was supposed to lose and all legal avenues would be employed to defend a state agent.
       In my last months in Israel, I reported that Sharon was poisoned just before his stroke and then, I had a stroke. This was followed by time-wasting and expensive law suits and concluded with a car "accident" that almost killed me. I ran for my life and if police snitch Ben Gvir expects to see even a dime from me, it won't ever be in Israel. I don't accept the Israeli courts as legitimate houses of justice, nor do I accept the Israeli government as the rightful rulers of the Jews. In that cuckoo land, calling someone an agent of the secret services is libelous and writers can't present objective facts lest they feel the wrath of the Mafia's courts. ( see those facts at the end of the article).
       Israel wanted to shut me down, so I join the ranks of Jonathan Pollard or Tzaviya Sariel who have been bitterly punished by exposing how rotten the rulers of the place truly are. So, I can never go home anymore.
       Big deal! Read an attorney's summation of my trial:   

Dear Barry.
 
I wanted to share some thoughts about your case involving Itamar G'vir.
 
No one will ever know who is  truly Shabak.  Shabak is not compelled to openly identify themselves as the accusers in cases against Jews.
 
Facetiously, a person never arrested is sure to be Shabak (G'vir?) but then a person frequently arrested may also be Shabak (to be jail shtinker). So then who is really Shabak?
 
Now since truth is a  complete defense (in civilized courts) to libel and slander, if G'vir is Shabak and you could prove it, you should be exempt from damages. But it is  "legally" impossible to prove this in an Israeli court given the secrecy of the secret service. This defense was never available to you.
 
More puzzling, since Shabak is "godlike" in Israel (their allegations in court are infallible) how can it be actionable to call someone "Shabak?"  Wouldn't such an identification be praiseworthy? Shouldn't you then be entitled to a reward or bonus?
 
To add to the confusion , the Courts of Israel traditionallly don't give damages for the loss of the reputation of a "right wing extremist" nor extract them from a left wing Bolshevik.  Rabbi  MeirKahane was called a "Nazi" (contrary to law).  His cause of  action for damages was dismissed.  Kastner, the capo, was judged "defamed" and paid  a perutah in damages.
 
How could it happen that Barry Chamish was compelled to pay damages to Itamar G'vir reputed to be a "right wing extremist" for labeling G'vir "Shabak"?
 
This conclusion comes to mind.
The government of Israel wanted to discredit Barry Chamish,.
The government of Israel wanted to make Barry Chamish appear to be unworthy of belief.
The government of Israel wanted to punish Barry Chamish for revealing uncomfortable
truths.
The government of Israel wanted to make it expensive for Barry Chamish, or any others to speak freely and critically.
 
To do this, the Issurreal government used the power of its corrupt courts  to intimidate and silence indivdual freedom.     
 
Herb Sunshine
Attorney at Law (US)

         One other letter is worthy of being read:
 
Barry Shavua Tov--Remember me one of your supporters,even if I missed
your event in Crown Heights

Barry, the judgment against you is good publicity no one trusts the
Israeli court no way, it all considered part of the cabal.Meanwhile you
got BenGvir right between the eyes and no one will ever trust him

 Keep pulling their pants down. They cannot enforce Judgment  in America
and B.G. does not need further embarrassment By the way where does B.G.
get his Money from what is his reported source of income.
Does he report taxes can you get a copy of his tax return?

    But that's not what any truthseeker should care about. The real issue is of Israelnationalnews and their genuine libel of me. A good friend wrote:

Front page of arutzsheva english today: "UFO Conspiracy Nut Barry Chamish Gets Clobbered" by that nut Steven Plaut -- I feel angry at both the nut steven plaut and also arutzsheva for printing libelous and unprofessional headlines on their front page. I think i will write a reader comment now. all the best chodesh tov,susan

   And Complete Strangers chimed in:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=17724.0

   Between a third and half my family died in the Holocaust. I appear on thousands of web sites and just a handful of anti-Israel pages and have reprinted my work without permission. Israelnationalnews allowed a commentator to write that I WROTE for these sites, therefore I am a neo-Nazi. That is the slander of Israelnationalnews and if you object to it, write the editor
and threaten him with anything you can realistically do to stop this blogger from polluting their site. Meanwhile, I have information I'd normally never use against him and you'll see it. But first look at a few letters so far published before you write:

Hillel Fendel    [email protected]


Subject: Why is Arutz Sheva attacking Barry Chamish?

Real Jews don't go by Plaut!

----------------

Other readers agree with me. Other readers feel as do I.

And none of us know each others, nor has Barry called us to alert us - we just saw the truth and acted.

Which is why any attack on Barry Chamish, or his work, is tantamount to an attack on Jews, Judaism and Israel per se.

==========

So does this mean the courts support the Shabak

Why wouldn't the courts back the Shabak? Sounds like Chamish got it

right. And what is this Israelnationalnews that allows such slander on its site? Sue them Chamish!

Barb Ginsburg, Raanana-Capetown (07/03/08)

===========

I just read about the Yeshiva massacre

Then I found your attack on Chamish.

Not enough is being said about the real conspiracy that is turning Israel into a shrinking piece of land covered by the blood of so many Jewish victims.

The leftists that have ruled Israel, that have set up the Court system, the electoral system, everything that is dysfunctional in Israel, the same leftists that are negotiating with the enemy - those are the ones that should be scrutinized even further.

Enough of your attacks on Chamish. Use this valuable blog space to expose the enemies within the government, within the ruling elites.

Or else, very soon, there won't be any Israel to call home anymore. It will be nothing but a squandered experiment in nationhood, squandered by the treasonous left and the internationalists. They are your enemy. Go after them. Not Chamish. And calling him names does not give any credit to your arguments. Give us your evidence.

Max, NYC (06/03/08)

==================

Chamish may be wrong or speculative about a lot of things... But

You haven't disproved his Rabin assassination research. Everyone knows the Israeli govt (including Rabin himself) hired shin bet agent Avishai Raviv to 'incite' the pawn Amir to assassinate Rabin. Evidence shows they probably intended it to be done with blanks in the gun so that Raviv could say he foiled the plot (which he himself encouraged, ironic right? This is called entrapment. Amir should be set free, but Israel is not democratic so forget it.) for Shin bet to be hailed as a hero and to discredit any opposition to peace insanity, while the country would rally behind their hero rabin who had an attempt on his life. Somebody along the way switched bullets into the gun. The rest is anybody's guess. Just because Chamish has some stupid theories about 9/11 doesn't mean all his work is garbage.

Velvel, silver spring (06/03/08)

-----------

Who is the nut ?

Dear Steven Plaut,

You're one of the multitude who are crying about Barry Chamish, but without any arguments. Please inform us with arguments, so we can judge your critics. Without arguments you're the big nut.

Yours, Shalom, Hans Holtrop, Christianzionist

Hans Holtrop, The Netherlands (06/03/08)

-------------

plaut is the nut

I agree with the first 2 comments. and I am very disappointed in arutz sheva for putting such a libelous, immature, and unprofessional headline on their front page. Steven Plaut, you have written some good pieces in the past, but you sound like the nut whenever you try to discredit Mr. Chamish. grow up!

cf, (06/03/08)

---------------

Jennifer, I'm still waiting for the proof. Free of ad hominem attacks

This whole blog entry is an ad hominem attack. Where is the substance?

Velvel, silver spring (06/03/08)

==============


Elisheva from Cleveland:



I protest that you allow ilk like Plaut time and space on the site.

S. Plaut is the enemy within

Plaut abuses Arutz Sheva and attacks Klal Yisrael:

Is Plaut evil, or just plain mad?

Either way, his material is substandard, and detracts from A7's sincere and important message.

====

Plaut Pollutes!

====

Dear Editor Hillel and others:
Today Arabs are celebrating the catastrophe at the Rav Kook Yeshiva. Meanwhile, S. Plaut celebrates a state attack on Barry Chamish on the Arutz Sheva website. Neither events are helpful for Jews, Judaism or Israel. Both are harmful, pro-exile events. Neither can be tolerated.
 
Much to my shock and dismay, I have seen that you are hosting a blog for the notorious S. Plaut. Perhaps you have forgotten his alliance with Daniel Pipes, and their threats against people who are opposite the CFR, including Barry Chamish. Working with Plaut is like trading with the enemy.
I see that the site carries this message:
--------------
"This is how we return to sanity - by listening to good people."
--------------
I am not sure what this means, but I certainly cannot include S. Plaut in the category of "Good" people. And it is his brand of personal attacks which spoils so much. By definition, in general, and certainly according to Jewish Law, Mr. Plaut is not "good", and he should not be listened to. Listening to slander is as forbidden as speaking it.
 
Anyone who has actually examined the situation, knows, absolutely, that Plaut's accusations are in fact false and completely libelous. Absolute lies. Plaut is in fact opening up Arutz Sheva for suit, although Barry is too refined to do this. But your publishing Plaut's completely false claims about Barry and holocaust deniers is the publication of actionable libel. There is no doubt about it. But why would you allow your site to be used for personal and political attacks on individuals?
 
Plaut's arrogance is not in the style of Arutz Sheva, nor of observant Jews. He also makes openly false and misleading statements such as this:
============
" ... is upset that I debunked his "theory" about the Rabin assassination ....
=============
What is he talking about? Due to Barry's labors, we all know that Rabin was not killed by the right, but the left. Plaut has never successfully debunked anything that I have seen, and certainly not Barry's fantastic journalism in which he has shown us all the truth about the Rabin assassination.
 
Whatever one might think about any particular writing of Mr. Chamish, there is no reasonable basis to have allowed this ugly and in fact libelous attack:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/2622

    I have just returned from Miami where Plaut succeeded in getting my two appearances cancelled. Luckily, a fine Chabad rabbi, Alon Razla offered me his synagogue for two lectures, so the trip ended up being reasonably successful. AND we got to the bottom of what he did and who Plaut is. And that is largely the result of a middle-aged woman who knew him while growing up in Philadelphia.
    "What he did was send a defaming article by Daniel Pipes which listed some anti-Jewish sites he found on the net which published you,"she began. "Steve Plaut supplied him with the sites. These were forwarded to a Chabad rabbi/singer from Kfar Chabad named Tuvia Bolton. He will be punished for spreading Lashon Hara without even asking you if the rumors were true. He sent the article to Rabbi Yosef Korf, who used his influence to get your speeches cancelled. He is naive and that's how Plaut works. He gets other people with real influence to do his dirty work. And he's always worked like that.
     "I don't know a lot about his home life but as a kid he lied and got caught. His parents reacted by punishing him in ways we call abusive now but just "strict" back then. But let me jump to junior high. I know more about that time. Stevie was awkward, unattractive, unathletic, if fact, he was a geek or nerd type of character. So you know, his nickname was "hatchet face," though the girls would giggle and call him "hands." I think all he wanted was to be liked, but he was the opposite of popular. So he thought he could become better liked by bringing down anyone with a weakness.
     "There was T, an overweight kid who made up for it by bragging too much. Stevie began by making up jokes about him and not even good jokes. But he would tell them to the popular boys and that's how he spread the hatred. But it got worse. He would send pizzas, taxis, even ambulances to T's house and got some of the popular boys to join in. At the height of his hate campaign, he and "the boys" would call T's house at 3 in the morning and leave the phone off the hook. Back then, that meant cutting off T's line for as long as they wanted. So you know, Stevie was a coward. He didn't dare just confront T with anything bothering him. We was too frightened of getting beat up. And why should he? Hassling T secretly meant Stevie could hang around big boys and pretend they liked him.
      "Where Stevie really showed his frustration and anger was with girls. He wanted one of the pretty ones to be his girlfriend but he was way too sickly and weird for that ever to happen.
So he become obnoxious around girls."
       I promised not to repeat any of her examples, but they really are weird. She permitted me to cite the next example.
       "Since Stevie couldn't sweet talk any girl, he attacked them. Stevie wasn't all that smart about it either. C was running for queen of, I don't even remember what, but it was a school event, maybe the spring prom. She had signs in the halls, C for Queen. Stevie took a marking pen and changed the N, so the signs read, C For Queer. He did this in front of the big boys but when he was called to the principal's office, he ranted that he didn't do it, he blamed other students who might have, I hear he even blamed other candidates. Stevie could never own up to his actions.
       "You would think that he have grown up already, but he's the same. That said, Rabbi Korf was victimized. I actually feel bad for him. I don't know about Tuvia, he is reputable in some circles. But he has a lot of explaining to do."

** 
   

MERCAZ HARAV THEORIES:

Mercaz Harav had no bodyguard to protect its students. They have much to explain. That said, a correspondent writes:

Usually the CIA, SHABAK and PA SECURITY FORCES only get a double whammy, this time the win a triple whammy in the Mercaz HaRav Massacre!
 
1) By taking the media headlines from Sidrot.
 
2) Giving justification and go-ahead to the complete division and ghettoization of Jerusalem.
 
3) By the Opening the first Salvo against in the new-old War of Destruction against the Haredim Daatim now that they figure the destruction of the Jews of
    Yesh(a) is a foregone conclusion.


http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2008/03/four-kugels.html

Without any intention of getting into conspiracy theories, I will say that the terrorist's choice of venue is significant. Merkaz HaRav Yeshivah is not only the world capital of Religious Zionism, it is a very important symbol. When Ynet News said that the Yeshivah was identified with the settler leadership, they only got it half-right. Plenty of criticism of the YeSh"A Council (the self-appointed "official" settler leadership) issued out of Merkaz HaRav. The "settler leadership" with with which Merkav HaRav identifies is the Holy One Blessed Be He and His Torah. Merkaz HaRav students were involved with protesting against the 2005 expulsion from Azza from the start, even leaving shi'urim (classes), in order to block roads, against the better judgment of the YeSh"A Council.

Their Rosh Yeshivah at the time, the great Rav HaGaon Avraham Shapira ztz"l supported soldiers refusing orders which violated Torah prohibitions. After Rav Shapira was chosen over Rav Tau to be Rosh Yeshivah, he gradually led Merkaz HaRav away from blind loyalty to the, more often than not, treif Israeli government, getting his students priorities back in order.

Rav Shapira publicly ripped up writings of the popular, "settler leader" Shlomo Aviner which proclaimed that soldiers should not refuse orders to expel Jews from their homes.

Several questions remain about the attack. One might ask, "With the hundreds of Jews in the Old City, why didn't they attack there?" (God forbid!) Did they avoid the higher than usual security there in favor of a softer target?

Why wasn't another yeshivah hit? (God forbid!)

**


ITAMAR BEN GVIR SUES BARRY CHAMISH
by Barry Chamish

11 Dec 2005

On Dec. 6, I received a phone call from the newspaper Kol Ha'ir asking my reaction to
Itamar Ben Gvir's suit against me for 140,000 shekels. It was the first I had heard of it,
so I stumbled through my reaction. I was better prepared for the next reporter who called,
from Yerushalayim Magazine.
I have claimed that Ben Gvir's actions serve the purposes of the state and its security
apparatus far better than that of legitimate anti-government protesters. In fact, Ben Gvir
and his ilk have destroyed legitimate protest in a number of ways, including:
Through their atrocious actions, the public associates any anti-government protest with irrational radicalism. In fact, to the broad public, one who protests on behalf of any anti-government cause is an advocate of murder and the transfer of Arabs elsewhere. By leading unknowing protesters in harmless directions, Ben Gvir and his ilk defuse political debate and send innocent citizens to prison.


When news of the suit reached the public, I was contacted and told, "Yediot Ahronot had
an article, I believe by Nahum Barnea, about Ben Gvir's suits. He sues everyone and
suspiciously, always wins."
I claimed that Ben Gvir's actions did more to stop the defense of Gush Katif than anything
else, excepting the cooperation of the Yesha Council with the authorities. I was not the only
one to make the claim and he sued them as well.
First he sued the newspaper Hatsofe. I will include its comment in Hebrew, which many
will see in gibberish.

http://www.hazofe.co.il/web/katava6.asp?Modul=24&id=34880&Word =
&gilayon=2430&mador=

The comment in Hebrew reads: "Itamar Ben Gvir has sued Hatsofe for implying that he is a Shabak agent. The suit has been widely reported by the media but we have yet to receive the suit. It must be that the Shabak lawyers have a long list of suits before ours."

Then, Ben Gvir sued a Knesset member, Arie Eldad:

21:30 Jun-29-05 / 22 Sivan 5765

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/print.php3?what=news&id=84874
MK Eldad: Itamar Ben-Gvir is a Gov't Agent Wednesday, June 29, 2005 / 22 Sivan 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Knesset Member Aryeh Eldad (National Union) said this evening that
right-wing activist Itamar Ben-Gvir, known for his affiliations with Kahanist organizations,
is actually an agent of the General Security Services (GSS). Eldad claims that Ben-Gvir was sent by the GSS to the Maoz HaYam hotel area in order to stir up the emotions and cause provocations. MK Eldad made the charges on Channel Two's Mishal Cham interview program. Ben-Gvir has been involved in many right-wing demonstrations and activist operations.

The reporter from Yerushalayim informed me that Eldad had caved in and would be issuing an apology to Ben Gvir. It wasn't worth his time and money to spend thousands of dollars on lawyers and risk losing $40,000. Where Ben Gvir, supposedly a student, finds the money for his serial suits goes unanswered. But the method seems to be foolproof.
On the other hand, with a great deal less funding available, I intend to fight the suit and in
doing so to expose, not just Ben Gvir, but the phenomenon of provocateurs wrecking any
pretense of free speech and expression in the country.
And I may not be alone for once. In the wake of the publicity, I received a phone call.
"Someone close to me faces ten years in prison over a riot Ben Gvir was responsible for.
I'm trying to get him to testify for you."
May there be many more.
The reporter from Yerushalayim, Amir Shouan, told me that Ben Gvir claimed I invented
the suspicion that he was a Shabak provocateur. I told him that was a lie and asked for
two hours to prove it.
It was like shooting fish in a bowl.
Let us begin in Gush Katif. A genuinely courageous protest leader, Nadia Matar,
saw the damage Ben Gvir was doing to her cause:

http://israelrules.blogspot.com/2005/07/propoganda-gone-bad.html
The Gush Katif hotel eviction. Did you know that Nadia Matar requested from the police to remove Itamar Ben Gvir and his hooligans from the hotel a week before the eviction?
Guess what? The police IGNORED her. Why? They WANTED a big political story of the "crazies" in the hotel. I KNOW most of the people evicted from the hotel.
They all said -- a group of Itamar Ben Gvir hooligans came out of nowhere,
refused to leave, and caused the whole "uproar" of what happened.
Please note: less than 24 hours before the raid and eviction, the police arrive and escort Ben-Gvir out of Gush Katif. Why? He works for them...to rile up his hooligans...and make people like you think (and a lot of the Israeli public)
that the hotel was full of fanatical crazies.

Now, let us return to 1994:

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/0/85411686c80ca92a802566f
e00396cb2?OpenDocument

On 1 August 1994, three Kach activists who had organized the paramilitary camp in
Kiryat Arba a week earlier were summoned for questioning by the police.
The group's spokesman, Itamar Ben-Gvir, one of the persons who were
summoned, indicated from a public telephone that they were not going to
cooperate with the police. (Ha'aretz, 29, 31 July 1994; Jerusalem Post, 31 July, 1 August 1994)

On Nov. 3 of this year, I appeared on the London and Kirschenbaum television program
on Channel 10. In 1994, Kirschenbaum was Chairman of the Israel Broadcasting Authority.
The paramilitary camp organized by Ben Gvir was nothing but a show for an IBA news reporter, Eitan Oren. Ben Gvir staged the camp for Oren, who the late Adir Zik proved was working for the Shabak. On the London and Kirschenbaum program, the latter admitted the report of the camp was staged for what could only be, the Shabak. The tape should make interesting viewing in court. At a young age, Ben Gvir was already cooperating with a Shabak sting operation. And I have another tape from December of the following year, as well as the police written records of it. After the Rabin murder, Yigal Amir was interrogated by the police:

Amir: I got to the demonstration and saw a friend from Likud youth on a bus. He told me
that Itamar Ben Gvir wanted to kill Rabin tonight. He said Avishai Raviv gave him a gun
with blanks in it. "You know about this, of course," he said. "I told the police about it."
I laughed. In recollection I can't figure this one out. But there were a lot of strange things...

Previous to the Rabin murder, Ben Gvir engaged in some nasty acts. He and his gang
jumped on the car of cabinet minister, Binyamin "Fuad" Ben Eliezer while he was in it.
Though he threatened the life of a cabinet minister, Ben Gvir was not jailed.
And that gave him time to personally place a note on Rabin's car which read,
"We got to his car,. next time we'll get to Rabin."
So, for threatening the murder of the prime minister, is Ben Gvir imprisoned like the
rest of us would be? Of course not. That gives him the time to threaten to kill a singer,
Sinead O'Conner:

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/
6511/edition_id/121/format/html/displaystory.html

Friday June 27, 1997
Singer slams threats of right-winger
NAOMI SEGAL
Jewish Telegraphic Agency
JERUSALEM -- Israeli police plan to question an extreme right-wing activist on
suspicion of threatening Irish pop star Sinead O'Connor.
O'Connor canceled her scheduled appearance at a concert Saturday night in
Jerusalem's Sultan's Pool after receiving death threats. The concert, billed as being
for "Two Capitals, Two States," was sponsored by Israeli and Palestinian women's groups.
No one claimed responsibility for the threats. However, ultra-nationalist Itamar
Ben-Gvir said in an Israel Radio interview that he "understood" those who sent the threats.
While not claiming responsibility for the threats, Ben-Gvir said that he and his
supporters had succeeded in getting the concert called off.

So how do you like that? Ben Gvir admits that he and his cohorts "succeeded" in getting the concert cancelled, which means he admitted to threatening the life of Sinead O'Connor. As far as anyone knows, murder threats are a serious felony in Israel, but not for Ben Gvir. One can only surmise that Ben Gvir made the threats for some organization powerful enough to keep him out of prison. Ben Gvir's activities are so obvious, that even his most likely allies have issued the claim that he is a Shabak agent:

http://www.forum.hr/showthread.php?s=b64dbbc322f9703e92a3ee10aa62cbcf&th
readid=64085&perpage=20&pagenumber=2
Article has a statement from Kahane Chai ("Kahane Lives"), and a quote
from the activist Itamar Ben-Gavi.

First, it's Ben Gvir... And I thik it's clear to anyone who follows Israeli press that he
is a Shabak agent provocateur or just plain idiot. Possibly both. He has broken the
law so many times, has a new trial each month, and every time he is let out on a
technicality... I know several Americans who moved in JDL and later Kach circles
and they are all 100% sure that he is a Shabak provocateur.

http://www.yesha.org.il/article-178174.html&pr=norton&se=áï%20âáéø%20ùáë
3. ( 27/2/2005 19:47)
From the settler's site: Itamar Ben Gvir, I'm afraid you are a Shabak agent."

But these sites barely scratch the accusations as compared to other popular Israeli
news sites:

http://www.bsh.co.il/forums/ShowMessage2.asp?id=58066&Fnumber=33&SunId=0
http://rotter.net/forum/politics/7609.shtml

These sites list the activities of and accusations against Ben Gvir, from the first such public accusation in Makor Rishon all the way back to 1993. Shahaf Pilovitch writes in Rotter.net:

The Jerusalem District Court acquitted Itamar Ben Gvir of Intimidation Of The Court and Insulting A Public Officer. Ben Gvir distributed posters throughout Jerusalem accusing Judge Tzvi Segal of being a 'threat to the Right and the settlers. If he doesn't alter his leftish views outside the court, he should not last long as a judge.'And the court acquitted him? Sounds a lot like Avishai Raviv, no?

Pilovitch concludes:

Itamar Ben Gvir is a Shabak operative and it is up to the public to put a stop to him because the political system which employs him won't. Our politicians work hand in hand with him and none are going to expose the fact that other Avishai Ravivs continue his legacy of destroying the Right from within.

I e-mailed Amir Shouan what I proved within 2 hours:

Main points:

Ben Gvir was called a Shabak provocateur for his activities in Gush Katif by Arie Eldad
and Nadia Matar. Matar asked the police to remove him from Gush Katif for his activities.
He sued Arie Eldad for the accusation.

Ben Gvir was accused of being a Shabak provocator in both Makor Rishon and Hatsofe.
He sued Hatsofe for the accusation.

Most telling: Ben Gvir was accused of being a Shabak provocateur in the Kahane
Chai and Yesha websites. And they should know. Other websites who have so accused
him include rotter.net and bsh.co.il

Ben Gvir organized a staged training camp for Eyal youths which included shooting at effigies of Arabs. This camp became a television report made for IBA Channel One by Eitan Oren, accused of being a Shabak Agent by the late Adir Zik in his radio broadcasts and reports for Hatsofe. On Nov. 3/05, I appeared on Channel Ten's London And Kirschenbaum program. There Kirschenbaum, who was the chairman of the IBA in 1994, admitted that the report organized by Ben Gvir was staged.

But I left out my favorite proof in case, somehow, it is a coincidence. I doubt it.

Seeking Solution, Shin Bet Offers Ben-G'vir Rent-Free Apartment
16:04 Aug 11, '05 / 6 Av 5765

(IsraelNN.com) Seeking to vacate the Kiryat Arba apartment of
Miriam and Yaron Adler,
the Shin Bet has offered former Kach activist Itamar
Ben-G'vir and his wife a rent-free apartment.
One of the reasons the Adlers cannot or will not accept an administrative detention order to leave Sa-Nur is because they cannot move back into their Kiryat Arba home since the Ben-G'virs are renting the apartment.

How thoughtful of the Shabak to give Ben Gvir a rent free apartment. Funny, they did
the very same thing for Avishai Raviv.

**

An Interview - Host Dr. Stanley Monteith and Guest
Author & Lecturer, Barry Chamish (2nd Hour) "Shimon
Peres ordered Ofra Haza murdered."
mms://mediadownload.soundwaves2000.com/mediadownload/rliberty/mp3/022808b.mp3
Please copy & paste the above link to your web browser line. If this
fails click on http://www.soundwaves2000.com/radio%5Fliberty/, then scroll
down to 02/28/08 Hour "b" - Barry Chamish...Murder of An Icon

Watch this, then order the full Vatican DVD frome:



In my world, this is big news. I bought a stand alone DVD burner. I can charge just $10. for all DVDs because I don't have to buy the recorded discs from a studio anymore. Write me at [email protected]

Or at: 

Barry Chamish
POB 840157
Saint Augustine, FL  32080-0157


The Best Of Barry 2007 - A brand new MP3 with 124 radio shows from 2007. A week of me on one disc.
Preventing The Israeli Holocaust - Recorded in Denver last year, I outline the Israeli political disaster as it exists at this moment, complete with missiles.
The Vatican's New Crusade For Jerusalem - Recorded in Jerusalem and filled with expert guests, I explore the history, then and now, of the Vatican's covert fight to make Jerusalem its capital.
The Secret War Against The Settlers - How the Israeli ruling establishment works with the CFR to eliminate Judea and Samaria.
Who Murdered Yitzhak Rabin And Wayne Owens - Recorded in Salt Lake City, the first half is the complete Rabin assassination, followed by how the same gang did the same thing to Utah Congressman Wayne Owens.


Get my books on lulu.com including the newest, Bye Bye Gaza, only $10 to download.black and white:
http://www.lulu.com/content/575116

[kahaneloyalist]

The more I read of Chamish the more I like the guy. His opponents seem so petty and anyone the Israeli government hates so much has to be good for Israel.

That makes no sense, the Israeli government also hates Iran. I dont know what is attractive about the man, he married a Goya, may be a J for J, goes to Nazi confernces(theres no excuse for that) and engages in completely insane conspiracy theories by which Labor Zionism is supposedly the creation of a secret sect of sabbatians His way is the way of the loser, the whiner who talks about the world controlling conspiracies where the 5 secret rulers of the world gather to plot nations policies, the way of people who never accomplish anything.

[Mifletzet]

Most who hear Chamish speak believe he is 80% correct, 10% wrong and 10% silly.

But he's sure thought-provoking.

Chamish's goya converted to Orthodox Judaism under Chabad in Florida 3 months ago.

Chamish is not alone in his conspiracy theory. The Talmud refers to the Tarmodeans, identified by the Lubavitcher Rebbe with the masons, and held by Rabbi Marvin Antelman of Rehovot in his 2 volume "To Eliminate the Opiate"
http://www.zionistbookclub.com/eliminatetheopiate2.htm
as being part of a vast  Sabbatian-Frankist- Mendelssohnian- Maskil-Masonic- Illuminati- Marxist-Rothschi ld-Narodnick- Biderberger- Trilateral Commission-CFR- New World Order conspiracy that has manipulated world and Jewish history for the last 400 years!

[kahaneloyalist]

I read his books, and heard him speak and came to the conclusion he is a liar and a bufoon who cares for nothing but himself, and is borderline schizophrenic.

He claims his wife was converted, still waiting for the evidence though.

Rabbi Kahane zt'l never had any truck with conspiracies, nor for that matter does Chaim. Chamish utterly discredits any investigation into real organizations with specific political goals detrimental to Jewish sovreignty by making up such insane theories. Read his works, he never brings proofs, just the vaguest hints of irregularities which he interprets to mean the CFR and the sabbatians have struck again

[Lubab]

Read his works, he never brings proofs, just the vaguest hints of irregularities which he interprets to mean the CFR and the sabbatians have struck again

I have read his works and he brings a LOT of proof. Not every conclusion is completely backed up, but even in a court of law you can't prove every detail. That doesn't mean you let the guy out of jail just because you can't prove every detail. We need to weigh the evidence and make our best conclusion. After reading his stuff about Rabin it's pretty clear the official story is way off and his story makes a lot more sense in light of the evidence.

[Lubab]

If we could just get away from this phrase "conspracy theory" and just looked at events of history through the lens of the best evidence availabe and compared the "official story" of Rabin, for instance versus Chamish's story, Chamish would win the debate.

[q_q_]

I read his books, and heard him speak and came to the conclusion he is a liar and a bufoon who cares for nothing but himself, and is borderline schizophrenic.

He claims his wife was converted, still waiting for the evidence though.

Rabbi Kahane zt'l never had any truck with conspiracies, nor for that matter does Chaim. Chamish utterly discredits any investigation into real organizations with specific political goals detrimental to Jewish sovreignty by making up such insane theories. Read his works, he never brings proofs, just the vaguest hints of irregularities which he interprets to mean the CFR and the sabbatians have struck again

He presents it badly.

But if you are honest, then you should be willing to have a serious discussion about the rabin murder.

I will show you that it was a conspiracy by israeli intelligence to murder rabin.
in a new thread.

well?

[kahaneloyalist]

I read his work with a totally open mind, looked at the evidence, and while there are certainly questions about the assasination Chamish's theories are still insane.

I understand the temptation of conspiracies, and yes it is comforting to believe in a massive and unstoppable gang being behind all problems, but all that is is an escape from reality to a comforting fantasy. Look at what the Rebbe did, when he came to America Judaism was incredibly weak, there were Jews who thought they would say kaddish on Torah Judaism. The Rebbe saw the problem and began, rationally with absolute emunah, tackling the specific issues to rebuild the Jewish world. That is the path we need to take not delving into absurdities about the CFR and Trilateral commision, which are real organizations, which have influence and power but arent secretly controlling the world.

I read his books, and heard him speak and came to the conclusion he is a liar and a bufoon who cares for nothing but himself, and is borderline schizophrenic.

He claims his wife was converted, still waiting for the evidence though.

Rabbi Kahane zt'l never had any truck with conspiracies, nor for that matter does Chaim. Chamish utterly discredits any investigation into real organizations with specific political goals detrimental to Jewish sovreignty by making up such insane theories. Read his works, he never brings proofs, just the vaguest hints of irregularities which he interprets to mean the CFR and the sabbatians have struck again

He presents it badly.

But if you are honest, then you should be willing to have a serious discussion about the rabin murder.

I will show you that it was a conspiracy by israeli intelligence to murder rabin.
in a new thread.

well?

I think the Rabin assasination was a screw up by the Shabak where they encouraged Amir to kill Rabin but the Shabak failed to prevent the assasination, which is the evidence raised by Adir Zik, who originally exposed Avishai Raviv as Shabak

[q_q_]

I read his work with a totally open mind, looked at the evidence, and while there are certainly questions about the assasination Chamish's theories are still insane.

I understand the temptation of conspiracies, and yes it is comforting to believe in a massive and unstoppable gang being behind all problems, but all that is is an escape from reality to a comforting fantasy. Look at what the Rebbe did, when he came to America Judaism was incredibly weak, there were Jews who thought they would say kaddish on Torah Judaism. The Rebbe saw the problem and began, rationally with absolute emunah, tackling the specific issues to rebuild the Jewish world. That is the path we need to take not delving into absurdities about the CFR and Trilateral commision, which are real organizations, which have influence and power but arent secretly controlling the world.

I read his books, and heard him speak and came to the conclusion he is a liar and a bufoon who cares for nothing but himself, and is borderline schizophrenic.

He claims his wife was converted, still waiting for the evidence though.

Rabbi Kahane zt'l never had any truck with conspiracies, nor for that matter does Chaim. Chamish utterly discredits any investigation into real organizations with specific political goals detrimental to Jewish sovreignty by making up such insane theories. Read his works, he never brings proofs, just the vaguest hints of irregularities which he interprets to mean the CFR and the sabbatians have struck again

He presents it badly.

But if you are honest, then you should be willing to have a serious discussion about the rabin murder.

I will show you that it was a conspiracy by israeli intelligence to murder rabin.
in a new thread.

well?

I think the Rabin assasination was a screw up by the Shabak where they encouraged Amir to kill Rabin but the Shabak failed to prevent the assasination, which is the evidence raised by Adir Zik, who originally exposed Avishai Raviv as Shabak

would you like to have an honest discussion, without your prejudices, and I will show you that Yigal Amir DID NOT KILL RABIN.

[Lubab]

and yes it is comforting to believe in a massive and unstoppable gang being behind all problems,

How is that comforting? I find it very disconcerting. and that's why I think most people are repulsed by the suggestion and comfort themselves by calling Chamish's arguments "insane" without ever really addressing the arguments made.

[Lubab]

To my knowledge in about every generation in Jewish history all the powerful of all the nations have at some point conspired together to destroy the Jewish people. It comes as no shock to me for someone to suggest that this is true in this generation as well.

[Lubab]

Another interesting thought: Avraham was called a Jew (Ivri) because he was on one side and the rest of the world is on the other. And the most powerful king in the world (nimrod) threw him into the fire and tried to kill him. I think that's what's been going on ever since and will go on until Moshiach comes.