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Lubab:
--- Quote from: MassuhDGoodName on February 25, 2008, 12:14:30 AM ---lubab: "...Nowhere close to the worst sin if you are going by the punishments but in a sense each aveira does separate us from G-d equally..."
How about a case where a Jew lives in a land of few if any Jews, and the Jew's relationship with a non-Jewish woman is the only catalyst in his life teaching him various Biblical concepts (regardless of her faith being Christian) to the extent that the Jew is made curious enough to begin a search to reclaim his Torah and heritage, and then takes it upon himself to read the entire Torah and begin seeking guidance from more knowledgeable Jews? (thanks to the internet now making such communications commonplace).
Isn't it possible that G-d truly works in mysterious ways?
One of my very favorite movies of all time: "The Left Hand of G-d" starring Humphrey Bogart...a brilliant story of how G-d can even make use of sin in His Work of redemption.
--- End quote ---
Such things do happen. After the fact we can look back to see how it was for the greater good. The Talmud says that a Baal Teshuvah (one who returned to the way of the Torah after leading another kind of life) is on an even higher level than the Tzaddik.
Does this mean we should go do sins so we can to teshuva and reach this level?
Absolutely not.
We can only do this looking back. Looking forward we are not allowed to test ourselves or place ourselves in a position of sin.
But we should look to take what we have already done and learn it's lessons and try to turn that experience into something positive. Something that deepens our connection to G-d. Absolutely.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 25, 2008, 12:33:59 AM ---This is interesting. Is the Makas Mardus still instituted today? I have not heard of it being used ever in my lifetime. Will it return in the future?
What if someone did something that could lead to Makas Mardus today what would happen to them? I'm talking about a "Jew" (supposedly but his Jewishness is in question) who briefly went out with a shiksa...and they were was yichud involved. The gentile woman broke it off eventually because she did not want a relationship with a Jew (even if it's possible that he wasn't).
--- End quote ---
It doesn't exist today because we don't have a Sanhedrin. But G-d finds a way to deliver the punishment through other means when necessary. But never forget that teshuva (return to G-d or true repentence) can wash away all these sins and a person can avoid the punishment that way.
I imagine makas mardus will be reinstated when the Moshiach comes and the Sanhedrin is reinstituted but something tells me we won't have that great a need for these punishments. I think people will want to do the right thing on their own at that time.
Raulmarrio2000:
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on February 24, 2008, 11:17:25 PM ---
--- Quote ---Noahides (non-Jews) are allowed to have marital relations without marriage.
It may even be preferable to just move in with a girlfriend and specifically state that you are NOT married to avoid the very strict consequences of adultery (the death penalty).
--- End quote ---
Even being allowed by Hallacha, if a Noahide has a relation with a woman, but no marriage, no steady family? Who would take care of the child they may have? And if they use a contraceptive (even a contraceptive not forbidden by the Noahide Law), wouldn't it be to pervert the purpose of sexual relations, which are meant to preserve human race on earth? What do you think?
--- End quote ---
Do you have an answer for my question? BTW, what's better for a married couple who have already many children and can't afford another? Use a permitted contraceptive, or abstain from sexual relations?
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on February 25, 2008, 01:01:49 AM ---
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on February 24, 2008, 11:17:25 PM ---
--- Quote ---Noahides (non-Jews) are allowed to have marital relations without marriage.
It may even be preferable to just move in with a girlfriend and specifically state that you are NOT married to avoid the very strict consequences of adultery (the death penalty).
--- End quote ---
Even being allowed by Hallacha, if a Noahide has a relation with a woman, but no marriage, no steady family? Who would take care of the child they may have? And if they use a contraceptive (even a contraceptive not forbidden by the Noahide Law), wouldn't it be to pervert the purpose of sexual relations, which are meant to preserve human race on earth? What do you think?
--- End quote ---
Do you have an answer for my question? BTW, what's better for a married couple who have already many children and can't afford another? Use a permitted contraceptive, or abstain from sexual relations?
--- End quote ---
Raul I see your question. I'm just want to check with a senior Rabbinic authority before I respond so I don't say something wrong. Alright?
I see everyone's questions. If I don't answer it is probably for the above reason so just be patient.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on February 24, 2008, 11:17:25 PM ---
--- Quote ---Noahides (non-Jews) are allowed to have marital relations without marriage.
It may even be preferable to just move in with a girlfriend and specifically state that you are NOT married to avoid the very strict consequences of adultery (the death penalty).
--- End quote ---
Even being allowed by Hallacha, if a Noahide has a relation with a woman, but no marriage, no steady family? Who would take care of the child they may have? And if they use a contraceptive (even a contraceptive not forbidden by the Noahide Law), wouldn't it be to pervert the purpose of sexual relations, which are meant to preserve human race on earth? What do you think?
--- End quote ---
Okay Raul.
Let me try to clarify a few things. Non-Jews can get away with a LOT under the Noahide laws. This does not mean, however, that donig certain things they are allowed to do, is the best thing for them to do.
Ideally a Noahide should get married and have children. No contraception.
We were talking about whether we were going to punish a non-Jews for premartial sex which is another issue.
I then made the point (hopefully it was clear ) that if someone WILL NOT get married, having a girlfriend would be preferable to masturbation. But the best thing is to get married and have kids, make no mistake about it.
If this boyfriend and girlfriend have a child they should be responsible to take care of that child. Will this be the best things for the child?
Probably not. The best thing would be if they would marry and give the child a stable home.
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