Author Topic: Shalom, from an ex muslim  (Read 32166 times)

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Offline Ex Muslim 4 Israel

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2008, 12:33:57 PM »
before i used to say, "a good muslim is a dead muslim" now i could say "a good muslim is a ex muslim"

welcome  O0

you said you had some Jewish blood, who was Jewish

shalom, actually i didn't say I have jewish blood, I do belive that I might have soem jewish ancestry as I feel very "jewish" if you know what I mean. Maybe what you read is that I don't have jewish blood in my veins, but I'm super Israeli at heart. and I love everything about Israel, the country, the religion, the people, the army, the landscape, the histroy, everything. Israel really does rock my world.
Yes I'm an ex muslim, and I bow down to the Israeli flag!

Offline Ex Muslim 4 Israel

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2008, 12:39:59 PM »
Now do you hate muslims?

Do I have to? Actually I hate islam,I despise muslim atrocities and fundemantilists. I even enjoy see them extrerminated by the Idf. And I really would find it strange that some jews or israelis feelspity for "innocent "casualties in recent IDF strikes. There's nothing called "innocent" in islamic socities. they are all in a battle against the whole world, and israel is on the front. Israel can do whatever it wants to protect its safety. and the muslims will soon reproduce again, no matter how many are killed. Don't worry about them.
Yes I'm an ex muslim, and I bow down to the Israeli flag!

Offline Ex Muslim 4 Israel

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2008, 12:43:12 PM »
One question, Are you Israeli citisen or from Yesha? I don't want to know details which can endanger you; just curius if you was in IDF.   

No no, I'm from outside Israel. I wish I could visit someday. And I'm not an IDf, what an honour that would be to be one.
Yes I'm an ex muslim, and I bow down to the Israeli flag!

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2008, 02:25:53 PM »
Now do you hate muslims?

Do I have to? Actually I hate islam,I despise muslim atrocities and fundemantilists. I even enjoy see them extrerminated by the Idf. And I really would find it strange that some jews or israelis feelspity for "innocent "casualties in recent IDF strikes. There's nothing called "innocent" in islamic socities. they are all in a battle against the whole world, and israel is on the front. Israel can do whatever it wants to protect its safety. and the muslims will soon reproduce again, no matter how many are killed. Don't worry about them.

I don't want you to hate them.

You said you left Islam because all they incited was hatred.......towards non-muslims. Now you've stepped over the bridge, to hate the muslims is hypocritical. You are doing the same thing vice-versa.

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2008, 03:26:36 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2008, 04:12:13 PM »
Welcome to the forum, Ex Muslim 4 Israel! We are very happy to have you as a member. May Hashem bless you!

I do have to say that the word "fundamentalist" has been hijacked. It simply means one that follows their religion according to what is written in their books. This term is used to 1) slam Christians and Jews who follow Hashem and 2) for apologist propaganda by the media as an excuse for islam. There are no "muslim moderates". A true muslims follow the koran and even the vast majority of muslims will agree with this.

Again, I am very glad to see you've joined our forum. Your words are a testimony and are inspiring.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 04:32:02 PM by Shlomo »
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2008, 04:26:42 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.

Well if you want to kill the muslims, then i guess they have a reason for hating you?

Offline Ex Muslim 4 Israel

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2008, 04:31:47 PM »
thanks Shlomo, I agree with you about the "fundamentalist" thing. It used to be a positive term until the muslims glue it with terrorism and murder. One can be very fundemental and very friendly at the same time.
Again thank you for your nice words. My devotion and love for Israel is really very sincere and true. I just know where the truth is. Truth can never be eliminated or hidden. Like the logo in here says: (In your heart You know we're right). Long Live israel!
Yes I'm an ex muslim, and I bow down to the Israeli flag!

Offline Ex Muslim 4 Israel

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2008, 04:38:04 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.

Well if you want to kill the muslims, then i guess they have a reason for hating you?

sarah, Israel/the jews NEVER wanted to kill anybody. It was the same throughout histroy. They were always killed. They beared the pain and injustice and always were in a state in defense.: In historical israel, In the arab countries, In nazi germany, in Europe, in Spain. Jews are always in a state of self defense. On the contrary, and YES, muslims do hate israel and wants all jews to be killed, men, women, and children. Muslims cowardly send their terrorists dreaming about 72 virgins to blow his stinky body up innocent people in israel, even that he knows deep inside that he's killing innocent people. And the whole world now is angry about some kids killed in ISareli self defense raids against gaza strip. Typical.
I was a mulsim and I know how mulsim think. They love to see al jews killed. They celebrate when infidels are massacred. Don't expect the jews to love them at any time. The jews aren't that stupid anyway.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 04:39:52 PM by Ex Muslim 4 Israel »
Yes I'm an ex muslim, and I bow down to the Israeli flag!

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2008, 05:21:12 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.

Well if you want to kill the muslims, then i guess they have a reason for hating you?
By that logic the Nazis had a point, which is why you should realize how fallacious it is. Muslims are my fellow human beings, and if they would stop occupying my country and killing my mishpakha, I wouldnt have a problem with future muslims. But they have an ideology which calls for me to be killed or subjegated. I dont like either option, so I choose to hate and fight my enemies.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2008, 05:24:05 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.

Well if you want to kill the muslims, then i guess they have a reason for hating you?
By that logic the Nazis had a point, which is why you should realize how fallacious it is. Muslims are my fellow human beings, and if they would stop occupying my country and killing my mishpakha, I wouldnt have a problem with future muslims. But they have an ideology which calls for me to be killed or subjegated. I dont like either option, so I choose to hate and fight my enemies.

So a vicious circle of killing is created. The issues between muslims and Jews won't stop because, both say that the other wants to kill them and started it and so they have the right to kill the other, their enemy.

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2008, 05:30:06 PM »
Hating someone who wants to kill you is rational hating people for no reasons, as the Muslims do is evil.

Well if you want to kill the muslims, then i guess they have a reason for hating you?
By that logic the Nazis had a point, which is why you should realize how fallacious it is. Muslims are my fellow human beings, and if they would stop occupying my country and killing my mishpakha, I wouldnt have a problem with future muslims. But they have an ideology which calls for me to be killed or subjegated. I dont like either option, so I choose to hate and fight my enemies.

Jews don't started their religion by exterminating  all men from muslime tribe, and enslaving their women. Mahomet did this in Medinah after the The battle of the trench IRC. How can you compare them, its' moral relativism.
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2008, 05:32:31 PM »
What men from what muslim tribe were exterminated? ???

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2008, 05:38:01 PM »
What men from what muslim tribe were exterminated? ???

The Mahomet exterminated Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medinah:

Muhammad, the Qurayza Massacre, and PBS   
By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, December 20, 2002

"Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet", the pious, sanitized presentation of Muhammad's life which recently aired on the Public Broadcasting Station (PBS) network, included a discussion of the massacre of the Banu Qurayza, a Medinan Jewish tribe. This brutal massacre was justified in the PBS film by a highly edited amalgam of apologists and apologetics. Moreover, on the accompanying website a patently absurd modern Muslim interpretation (Muhammad Hamidullah, Muslim Conduct of State, Lahore, 1961, §443) was invoked suggesting the gruesome outcome may have resulted from the application of passages from Deuteronomy. It is critical that Muslims and non-Muslims alike consider seriously the implications of accepting at face value the apologetic PBS "analysis" of this massacre.

A consensus Muslim account of the massacre of the Qurayza has emerged as conveyed by classical Muslim scholars of hadith (sayings of Muhammad), biographer's of Muhammad's life (especially Ibn Ishaq), jurists, and historians. This narrative is summarized as follows. Alleged to have aided the forces of Muhammad's enemies in violation of a prior pact, the Qurayza were subsequently isolated and besieged. Twice the Qurayza made offers to surrender, and depart from their stronghold, leaving behind their land and property. Initially they requested to take one camel load of possessions per person, but when Muhammad refused this request, the Qurayza asked to be allowed to depart without any property, taking with them only their families. However, Muhammad insisted that the Qurayza surrender unconditionally and subject themselves to his judgment. Compelled to surrender, the Qurayza were lead to Medina. The men with their hands pinioned behind their backs, were put in a court, while the women and children were said to have been put into a separate court. A third (and final) appeal for leniency for the Qurayza was made to Muhammad by their tribal allies the Aus. Muhammad again declined, and instead he appointed as arbiter Sa’d Mu’adh from the Aus, who soon rendered his concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims.

 Muhammad ratified the judgment stating that Sa’d’s decree was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Male youths who had not reached puberty were spared. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions. According to Muhammad’s biographer Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims.

These events have been documented and interpreteted by both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars. As reported by the scholar M.J. Kister (Jerusalem Studies in Arabic and Islam. Vol. 8: p.69, [1986]), al-Mawardi (d. 1072 C.E.), the eminent Muslim jurist from Baghdad, characterized the slaughter of the Qurayza as a religious duty incumbent on Muhammad. Professor Kister quotes al-Mawardi as follows: "…it was not permitted (for Muhammad) to forgive (in a case of ) God’s injunction incumbent upon them; he could only forgive (transgressions) in matters concerning his own person.". The notion that this slaughter was sanctioned by God as revealed to Muhammad was, according to Kister, reflective of "…the current (as of 1986) Sunni view about the slaughter of the Banu Qurayza." . This remains the orthodox Sunni view regarding the treatment of such prisoners as expressed in current versions of "Reliance of the Traveler: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law" from Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Accordingly, it is bizarre to suggest (as was done on the PBS website for station KQED) that "Deuteronomy" or any "sacred" law other than (nascent) Muslim law was applied in determining the fate of the Qurayza.

In the immediate aftermath of the massacre, the Muslims benefited substantially from the Qurayza’s assets which they seized as booty. The land and property acquired helped the Muslims gain their economic independence. The military strength of the Muslim community of Medina grew due to weapons taken, and the fact that captured women and children taken as slaves were sold for horses and more weapons, facilitating enlargement of the Muslim armed forces for further conquests. Conversely, the Jewish tribe of the Qurayza ceased to exist.

The sanitized PBS narration referring to this massacre omits the following details as chronicled consistently by Muslim sources: the arbiter (Sa’d Mu’adh) was appointed by Muhammad himself; Muhammad observed in person the horrific executions; Muhammad claimed as a wife a woman (Rayhana) previously married to one of the slaughtered Qurayza tribesmen; the substantial material benefits (i.e., property; receipts from the sale of the enslaved) which accrued to the Muslims as a result of the massacre; the extinction of the Qurayza. However, much more disturbing are the concluding narrator comments by Karen Armstrong and M. Cherif Bassiouni. Armstrong, brimming with her infamous apologetic zeal, has the temerity to claim: "…(the massacre) cannot be seen as anti-Semitism..Muhammad had nothing against the Jewish people …or the Jewish religion. The Koran continues to tell Muslims to honor the People of the Book."

In sharp contrast, a serious, respected scholar of anti-semitism, Professor Robert Wistrich, summarizes the overall Koranic image of the Jews as follows:

"..there are some notably harsh passages in which Muhammad brands the Jews as enemies of Islam and depicts them as possessing a malevolent, rebellious spirit. There are also verses that speak of their justified abasement and poverty, of the Jews being '..laden with God's anger..' for their disobedience. They had to be humiliated '..because they had disbelieved the signs of God and slain the prophets unrightfully..' (Sura 2:61/58). According to another verse (Sura 5:78/82), '..the unbelievers of the Children of Israel..' were cursed by both David and Jesus. The penalty for disbelief in God's signs and in the miracles performed by the prophets was to be transformed into apes and swine...(Sura 5:60/65)…The oral tradition (hadith) goes much further and claims that the Jews, in accordance with their perfidious nature, deliberately caused Muhammad's painful, protracted death from poisoning. Furthermore, malevolent, conspiratorial Jews are to blame for the sectarian strife in early Islam, for heresies and deviations that undermined or endangered the unity of the umma (the Muslim nations).."

Bassiouni engages in a frankly obscene moral equivalence assessing equal blame for the modern "transformation" of this event.

"…On the Jewish side, they have used that as a way of saying, well you see, the Muslims hate the Jews and they kill them. And the Muslim side, it says, well you see, the Jews are full of treachery and can't be trusted. Both are wrong."

Bassiouni's comments reflect a warped modern Muslim calculus devoid of any true empathy for the actual victims. Her remarks make one yearn desperately for the clear, timeless assessments of this massacre made long before the current era of politically correct apologism. For example, in his 1895 biography of Muhammad ("Mahomet and Islam", London, 1895, p. 151), which relied entirely on the original Muslim sources, the scholar Sir William Muir observed:

"The massacre of the Banu Coreiza was a barbarous deed which cannot be justified by any reason of political necessity…the indiscriminate slaughter of the whole tribe cannot be recognized otherwise than as an act of monstrous cruelty…"

The scholar Bat Ye'or summarized the impact of the first two centuries of Arab Muslim conquests (The Jerusalem Quarterly 1987; Vol. 42, Pp. 84-85) on indigenous Jews and Christians of the Middle East, as follows: "Muslim chroniclers described the ongoing jihad (holy war), involving the destruction of whole towns, the massacre of large numbers of their populations, the enslavement of women and children, and the confiscation of vast regions. This picture of catastrophe and destruction corresponds to the period of gradual erosion of Palestinian Jewry. According to [the Muslim chronicler] Baladhuri (d. 892 C.E.), 40,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone at the Arab conquest, after which all trace of them is lost…". The 6 centuries between 640 and 1240 C.E., she further observes: ".. witnessed the total and definitive destruction of Judaism and Christianity in the Hijaz (modern Saudi Arabia), and the decline of once flourishing Christian and Jewish communities in Palestine (particularly in Galilee for the Jews), Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia. In North Africa, the Christians had been virtually eliminated by 1240 C.E., and the Jews decimated by Almohad persecutions… notwithstanding some brighter intervals, these six centuries witnessed a dramatic demographic reversal whereby the Arab-Muslim minority developed into a dominant majority, resorting to oppression in order to reduce the indigenous populations to tolerated religious minorities…"

Viewed from this overall historical perspective, the legacy of the Qurayza massacre resonates tragically, foreshadowing later Muslim conquests, massacres, and the imposition of more than a millennium of dhimmitude on subjugated Jews, Christians, and others. The sacralized PBS presentation of this massacre completely negated the suffering of its victims. Indeed the same disturbing, pious apologism has been employed to negate the suffering of all the millions of victims of genocidal jihad conquests during more than a millennium, from Portugal to Spain, and the Sudan to Hungary. This sacralized historical negationism must be confronted and exposed until it is renounced, and accompanied by a sincere display of empathy for the actual victims.

Andrew G. Bostom, MD, MS, is an Associate Professor of Medicine at Brown University Medical School.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=6DC07BEB-92CE-4500-8434-8204CA9522D4
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2008, 05:48:14 PM »
There was something called the Pact of Najran, at the time when the Christians of Medina were given protection by Muhammad, where there was a hadith of him saying: "Anyone who harms them (christian) it is as if he has harmed me."


Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2008, 05:52:54 PM »
Maybe Yes, although this kind of protection is plain extorsion and racket, but this topic is about Jews and muslimes. NOT CHRISTIANS. My point is that Jews have good reasons to hate muslimes who wanted to kill or enslave them from the start.
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Sarah

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2008, 06:10:57 PM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2008, 06:14:00 PM »
Shalom JTF people
I'm an ex muslim from Lebanon, 24 years old, I have left islam for good and all I want now is to really affiliate in pro Israel/zionist activities as I really wish (my dream,) is to convert to judaism soemday, I've been told I might have jewish blood so that I love israel and the jews so much. I've been visiting JTF's website and listening to my Hero Chaim religiously for over 2 years now, that's why I really confide in this place and certainly would love to connect with you all guys. I've wote down my personal testimony and I would love to share it with you all.

Shalom. As an Arab Muslim I once asked myself: Why do I hate Israel?  I really thought about this question. After only a little deliberation the answer was clear, because I am a Muslim and Islam is extremely intolerant. It's the intolerance to everything non Muslim, that is the problem and I say this as a Muslim, but today I have rejected the teachings of Islam for this very reason.  I have left Islam.  As an Arab "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi", living in an Arab country, coming from a Muslim family, I was brought up with the hatred of Jews, Christians, and all non Muslims. Now I'm 24, I have matured enough to view the world through a different perspective; I reviewed real history and studied the sequence of events before and since the restoration of the State of Israel.  I decided to step outside the mindset of a typical Muslim.  It didn't take long to realize that I was on the wrong track and I moved quickly to the other side.  In order to be at peace with myself I have come to reject the hatred of Israel and now love my former enemy.  I have not embraced another religion but I am seeking a new spiritual path.

Why do the Arabs and Muslims have to reject the presence of a Jewish state in a tiny percentage of the land of the Middle East?  Why does Islamic intolerance forbid other nations their right to exist in their own land?  The whole world should realize that Islam is at war with all nations on the planet.  In our Muslim societies it is not "the extremists" but the whole society infected with this hatred.  It is in the mosques, the schools, in the media and in the homes of nearly every Muslim family.  It isn't just Israel they hate but America and Christians as well.  Islam hates all other religions.  In the case of Israel, its only fault is that it's a Jewish state who wants to live in peace within its borders. It's not a struggle of so called "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis" to establish a country and retain some land, which was never theirs, I know because I studied the real history. The real problem is racism and the intolerance of Muslims, the blind hatred and jealousy to see a flourishing, strong and modern country where people from other faiths can live peacefully. Why are the Jews forbidden to have a country? These people have contributed much to the world's culture and offered the best scientists, artists, doctors and have been victims of intolerance throughout history? Why are they forbidden to live in their national Zionist dream and return to their homeland, which was some desert which they cultivated and transformed in to one of the most beautiful landscapes on earth? Why do the Arabs and the Muslim world have to take everything, and claim every land they step on to be theirs. "Eretz Yisrael" never existed, and should never, and that is coming from me an Arab who is classified as a "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi."  The creation of a PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi state would be the biggest threat to the existence of Israel and would not bring one day of peace to Israel; I know how my people think! By promoting such a state would be the equivalent of supporting the Nazis in their quest to destroy the Jews.
 
Israel has already made the mistake twice of giving land for peace, once in Southern Lebanon, and secondly in Gaza. We all know the terrible results: the expansion of Hizballah's power in Lebanon and the creation of a terrorist state in Gaza.  Hamas and other terrorist organizations now have the space to launch more terrorist attacks and hostile activities on Israeli cities and villages.
 
Israel's right to exist shouldn't be open for discussion. Hamas, Hizballah or Islamic Jihad, and the people behind them, must be destroyed.   Nothing should hinder Israel's army to do whatever it takes to protect their people and ensure the safety of Israel, from Tel Aviv, to the smallest settlement inside Israel which should include Judea and Samaria (the West Bank).

I don't blame the Israeli army for any defense measure it takes. It has been fighting Islamic terrorism long before any other nation has faced their atrocities. The Israeli soldiers have been on the front line on behalf of the whole free world. I am proud to support the Israeli defense forces, the most civilized and humane army in the world, no matter how the media might try to portray them. One can't but respect the brave Israeli army which puts its soldiers' lives at risk in order to protect civilian life in Gaza or Southern Lebanon, the same civilians whom in both places have voted terrorist organizations to power. The same "innocent civilians" which deny Israel's right to exist, who never are held accountable for the democratic choices they have made. Yet still, the Israeli army, and in the most critical war times, try as much as possible to avoid harming their lives, even at the expense of losing lives on their side as well as tactical and strategic disadvantages because of their moral behavior. I salute the Israeli army; I can't but support these heroes, and bow in respect to the memory of their fallen ones. I can't but stand with Israel in its fight for its existence amid this crazy part of the world.
 
I used to hate Israel with a passion but today I am proud to say that I have shed my hatred for Israel and it has transformed to a deep love, passion, and respect for Zionism and all the values it stands for.

I am proud that today I support the full restoration of Jerusalem. For the first time in my life I'm at peace with myself and in great harmony of what I believe in; standing with Israel and the Jewish people, who are the most forgiving and tolerant people on earth. They must be praised for their deep dedication to their cause, and for their patience in their endurance of harm and hatred.
 
Jerusalem should never be divided and soon the Temple Mount should also be liberated. All other religious groups in the world have free access to their most sacred sites yet the Jews still watch their holiest place, Solomon's Temple, under occupation.  I can't but feel compassionate with their dream, and I know that their fight is now my fight.

Israel's existence and survival is really a test and responsibility for the whole civilized world. It's the battle against Islam's imperial quest to conquer the whole world. Israel is the fortress and stronghold for freedom and tolerance in the Middle East, the frontline on the world’s war against the tyranny of Islam.
 
I have held my tongue for too long but today a great burden has been lifted from my heart.  I don't care if I've been considered a traitor by my people for loving Israel. It's an honor for me; if supporting Israel's right to exist is a sin then I'm a sinner.  I'm proud to be an Arab who stands with a country that should be emulated by all its neighbors.  For the sake of its people and for the sake of the world's stability and freedom, I'm proud to say I love Israel.  I know that even if I don't have Jewish blood in my veins, I know I am Israeli at heart.  Long live Israel!
Welcome aboard.  G-d willing, Israel will finally liberate all its lands from the Koranimals....  Sadly, however, I feel this "operation" is simply a ploy to bolster Olmerts 3% supporting government when he and his party should have been arrested, tried for treason and.....Guilty...like some other leaders of our times... :'(
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Jasmina

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2008, 06:53:22 PM »
  welcome!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2008, 12:34:28 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.


You are starting to sound like the CNN Nazis who use the phrase "cycle of violence".
In a way Sarah is right. Violence creates more violence. The so-calles ME-conflict is a vicious circle. Action and reaction.
The biggest problem are the Israeli themselves , who refuse to use their military power to expel all the arabs out of the land of Israel.
You can't blame the Arabs from fighting you, if you don't take the necessary action to stop them. Right now they are on the winning hand, because they will outbreed the Jews in Israel, unless somebody stops them.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2008, 01:27:16 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.


You are starting to sound like the CNN Nazis who use the phrase "cycle of violence".
L'Havdil!

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

newman

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2008, 02:11:26 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.

That's a stupid mentallity. By your reasoning nobody should have fought hitler (YS) so they could avoid the 'cycle of violence'.

It is iSSlam that demand world domination, not Judaism or christianity. It is iSSlam that initiates terror, not Judaism or christianity. The cycle will end when the evil of iSSlam is defeated.

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2008, 02:17:45 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.

That's a stupid mentallity. By your reasoning nobody should have fought hitler (YS) so they could avoid the 'cycle of violence'.

It is iSSlam that demand world domination, not Judaism or christianity. It is iSSlam that initiates terror, not Judaism or christianity. The cycle will end when the evil of iSSlam is defeated.
you make a good point about not attacking hitler to avoid this vicious circle.

However, Christianity is sometimes a religion of conquest also.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

newman

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2008, 02:22:35 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.

That's a stupid mentallity. By your reasoning nobody should have fought hitler (YS) so they could avoid the 'cycle of violence'.

It is iSSlam that demand world domination, not Judaism or christianity. It is iSSlam that initiates terror, not Judaism or christianity. The cycle will end when the evil of iSSlam is defeated.
you make a good point about not attacking hitler to avoid this vicious circle.

However, Christianity is sometimes a religion of conquest also.

It WAS but no longer is.

If iSSlam has a reformation like christianity did, it may survive.

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Shalom, from an ex muslim
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2008, 03:54:09 AM »
So the muslims started it according to you, and the Jews are finishing it by fighting back. It is still a vicious circle, that will not end.

You still don't get it' If the Arabs will lay down their arms there'll be a peace in ME, If the Jews will surrender there'll be no Israel and no living Jews in ME. HAMAS is preaching the new Jihaad to reconquer Spain, after they'll finish up with the "Zionists"; only leftist idiots and nazi rascals  in Europe don't support Israel.
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm