how many Jews are in the forum?

[JTFFan]

where are the rest of the Jews? theres more than 33

Make that 32.

why, if it says 33

After reading most for these posts, I want not to be included in the count.

I honestly remember now why I never moved closer to other Jews.

Skippy, certain members here are not the say all to what a Jew really is...don't take anything they might say personally because i certainly do not anymore...Some people are simply nuts!!! Dr. dan out! 

Oh I don't, I know insanity runs wild here 

we need to stick together...by all means I know that we both respect observant jews and honor them.  It's the haters and snobby ones we need to rebuke..remember the key word is REBUKE..not hate... Dan out! 

I agree mate. I don't hate fellow Jews, I just believe some need to pull their heads out their........

Yes exactly

[MassuhDGoodName]

2

[MassuhDGoodName]

I am in the process of giving very deep thought as to how JTF can launch an appealing outreach mission to all Jews and to all non-Jews, to be carried out in a way which is appealing and alluring, rather than being full of rebuke.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Are you talking about those you feel are overly religious? I happen to be overly religious, so that is why I ask.
lol.

So Skippy...can we make it 33 again? 

Well its the unrighteous, devil sporn label kinda puts me out of the running 

So no I am still out thanks Mills.

You are a Great lady Mills 

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Mills this sums up my thoughts on this.

Each Man Has A Name:

Each man has a name, given him by G-d
And given him by his father and mother.

Each man has a name given him by his stature
And his way of smiling,
And given him by his clothes.

Each man has a name given him by the mountains
And given him by his walls.

Each man has a name given him by the planets
And given him by his neighbours.

Each man has a name given him by his sins
And given him by his longing.

Each man has a name given him by his enemies
And given him by his love.

Each man has a name given him by his feast days
And given him by his craft.

Each man has a name given him by the seasons of the year
And given him by his blindness.

Each man has a name given by the sea
And given him by his death.

לכל איש יש שם
שנתן לו אלוהים
ונתנו לו אביו ואימו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו קומתו ואופן חיוכו
ונתן לו האריג

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו ההרים
ונתנו לו כתליו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו המזלות
ונתנו לו שכניו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו חטאיו
ונתנה לו כמיהתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו שונאיו
ונתנה לו אהבתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו חגיו
ונתנה לו מלאכתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו תקופות השנה
ונתן לו עיורונו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתן לו הים
ונתן לו

[Dr. Dan]

Mills this sums up my thoughts on this.

Each Man Has A Name:

Each man has a name, given him by G-d
And given him by his father and mother.

Each man has a name given him by his stature
And his way of smiling,
And given him by his clothes.

Each man has a name given him by the mountains
And given him by his walls.

Each man has a name given him by the planets
And given him by his neighbours.

Each man has a name given him by his sins
And given him by his longing.

Each man has a name given him by his enemies
And given him by his love.

Each man has a name given him by his feast days
And given him by his craft.

Each man has a name given him by the seasons of the year
And given him by his blindness.

Each man has a name given by the sea
And given him by his death.

לכל איש יש שם
שנתן לו אלוהים
ונתנו לו אביו ואימו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו קומתו ואופן חיוכו
ונתן לו האריג

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו ההרים
ונתנו לו כתליו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו המזלות
ונתנו לו שכניו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו חטאיו
ונתנה לו כמיהתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו שונאיו
ונתנה לו אהבתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו חגיו
ונתנה לו מלאכתו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתנו לו תקופות השנה
ונתן לו עיורונו

לכל איש יש שם
שנתן לו הים
ונתן לו

yeh, you're jewish..no doubt about that....

[q_q_]

brilliant!!!!

written by an israeli poet called zelda?

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

brilliant!!!!

written by an israeli poet called zelda?

Yes I love her work, she is the most beautiful person inside and out 

[q_q_]

it is a girl`s name.
http://www.babynamesocean.com/english_names/meaning_of_Zelda.html

I wonder why they made a game where the guy was called Zelda.

A mistake, or a different meaning in japan/china?

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Yes well they are idiots.

More on this once fine woman, and very much a role model.

THE UKRAINIAN-BORN ISRAELI ORTHODOX POET ZELDA Schneersohn-Mishkovsky, better known as Zelda (1914-1984), belonged to a lineage of illustrious rabbis. Her father, Shelomoh Shalom Schneersohn, descended from the prominent Schneersohn dynasty of Habad hasidic masters, and was the uncle of the late rebbi of Lubavitch, R. Menahem Mendel Schneersohn (1902-1994). Her mother, Rachel Hen, was a descendant of the famed Sephardic dynasty of Hen-Gracian, which traces its roots to eleventh-century Barcelona, Spain. (1) Her maternal grandfather's grandfather, R. Elhanan ben Meir ben R. Elhanan, was a student of R. Shneur Zalman of Lyadi (1745-1812), the founder of Habad Hasidism. (2) In 1925 the family emigrated to Mandatory Palestine and settled in Jerusalem, a move followed by the traumatic death of both the poet's father and grandfather. Following her graduation from the Teachers' College of the religious Mizrahi movement in 1932, Zelda moved to Tel Aviv and then to Haifa, where she taught until her return, with her twice-widowed mother, to Jerusalem in 1935. In 1950 she married Hayyim Mishkovsky and from then on devoted herself to writing. Although she began writing in the 1930s, and publishing in the 1940s, Penai (Free Time), her first book, was not published until 1967. The book, with its rich emotive and contemplative images drawn from the world of Jewish mysticism, Hasidism, and Russian fairy tales, immediately established the poet as a major figure on the Israeli literary scene, popular with both religious and secular audiences. It was followed by Ha-Carmel ha-Ee Nireh (The Invisible Carmel), published after her husband's death in 1971, Al Tirhaq (Be Not Far, 1975), Halo Har Halo Esh (It Is Surely a Mountain, It Is Surely a Fire, 1977), 'Al ha-Shoni ha-Marhiv (On the Spectacular Difference, 1981), and she-Nivdelu mi-Kol Merhaq (That Became Separated from Every Distance, 1984). The books brought the poet several prestigious awards: the Israeli Brenner Prize (1971), the Bialik prize (1977) and the Wertheim Prize (1982).

[White Israelite]

it is a girl`s name.
http://www.babynamesocean.com/english_names/meaning_of_Zelda.html

I wonder why they made a game where the guy was called Zelda.

A mistake, or a different meaning in japan/china?

Ah ok, I played Zelda for N64, good game 

[q_q_]

it is a girl`s name.
http://www.babynamesocean.com/english_names/meaning_of_Zelda.html

I wonder why they made a game where the guy was called Zelda.

A mistake, or a different meaning in japan/china?

Ah ok, I played Zelda for N64, good game 

wow, Mayer, you are young. I guess you never played the old things..

I remember this "game and watch" thing.. They were so cool.
google images handheld zelda.

We are talking 1980s (and I guess early 90s too perhaps). And pre gameboy. (gameboy came out in 1989 apparently)

I played a handheld mario like game alot. (maybe donkey kong, I don't know)  And this zelda one rings a bell.





Enjoy the nostalgia folks.

btw.. thanks Mills for the correction. Zelda is one game I never bought for my SNES. (or game boy).

[Wayne Jude]

Good question!

[q_q_]

Good question!

After 19 pages I think we have the answer. Now who was keeping count?

[Khazan]

In one respect, I am a non-Jew from halacha perspective, I am Jewish from my Grandfather's lineage (technically speaking, it is based on my mother's maiden name) but somewhere along the line, my ancestors were Jewish but converted to Christianity. 

In another respect, there is the concept of "gerout" (sic) which is a 'convert' although I heard a kabbalist Rabbi say there are no Jewish converts, but people with Jewish souls, people like Ruth who were adopted into the life and ways of the Hebrews. 

I could become an Israeli citizen based on laws passed in the 70's, and hope to do so. 

[Ultra Requete]

In one respect, I am a non-Jew from halacha perspective, I am Jewish from my Grandfather's lineage (technically speaking, it is based on my mother's maiden name) but somewhere along the line, my ancestors were Jewish but converted to Christianity. 

In another respect, there is the concept of "gerout" (sic) which is a 'convert' although I heard a kabbalist Rabbi say there are no Jewish converts, but people with Jewish souls, people like Ruth who were adopted into the life and ways of the Hebrews. 

I could become an Israeli citizen based on laws passed in the 70's, and hope to do so. 

So you can be called Hebrew or Israelite and in future Israeli but not Jew which is person practising Rabinical Judaism or born as child of Jewish mother and not practising other religion. When you want to move to israel I realy advice you to make a ortodox convertion or you'll be not warmly welcomed there by both Jewish and A-rab (christian) comunities.

[q_q_]

In one respect, I am a non-Jew from halacha perspective, I am Jewish from my Grandfather's lineage (technically speaking, it is based on my mother's maiden name) but somewhere along the line, my ancestors were Jewish but converted to Christianity. 

In another respect, there is the concept of "gerout" (sic) which is a 'convert' although I heard a kabbalist Rabbi say there are no Jewish converts, but people with Jewish souls, people like Ruth who were adopted into the life and ways of the Hebrews. 

I could become an Israeli citizen based on laws passed in the 70's, and hope to do so. 

Israeli citizenship is a secular thing.
Don't merge the 2 into different perspectives/different "respects".

And don't look at kabbalah and halacha as "different perspectives".

Only once you have converted via orthodox halacha, is it known that you have and have had, a jewish soul.   Ruth converted.

[Khazan]

As you can probably tell, I'm not the most religious of persons. 

Most likely, I would take the secular approach with regards to becoming an Israeli citizen.  Don't get me wrong, I find Judaism interesting, I even celebrate some of the holidays at my Uniiversity's Chabad house.  However, I think there is a reason for the secularized version pertaining to citizenship. 

There seems to be a complex both in Israel and on these boards of an "orthodox superiority."  Don't get me wrong, when it comes to religion, none do it better than Orthodox Jews.  However, ironically, many orthodox Jews vouch out of military service for religious reasons, while secular non-maternal "Jews" (halachaly non-Jews) serve in the armed forces.  I ask you, who is better serving the state of Israel? 

[q_q_]

As you can probably tell, I'm not the most religious of persons. 

Most likely, I would take the secular approach with regards to becoming an Israeli citizen.  Don't get me wrong, I find Judaism interesting, I even celebrate some of the holidays at my Uniiversity's Chabad house.  However, I think there is a reason for the secularized version pertaining to citizenship. 

There seems to be a complex both in Israel and on these boards of an "orthodox superiority."  Don't get me wrong, when it comes to religion, none do it better than Orthodox Jews.  However, ironically, many orthodox Jews vouch out of military service for religious reasons, while secular non-maternal "Jews" (halachaly non-Jews) serve in the armed forces.  I ask you, who is better serving the state of Israel? 

Your problem is here is labels.

the Orthodox that opt out are anti zionist.

I did see statistics that orthodox/religious zionists are disproportionately in the most important roles in the army.

Many seculars would opt out if they had an option.

When you refer to "the secularized version pertaining to citizenship", referring to the law of return no doubt.  You obviously seem to think it is a good idea..
you are probably not aware of the basis to this rule.. Of anybody with a jewish grandfather is considered "jewish" by the secuilar state.
It is based on how Hitler would choose jews. If you are jewish enough for hitler, then you are jewish enough to live in the state of israel.
The israeli government are defining jews like hitler did. As if Hitler defines who is a jew, instead of jewish law.

If there was a state during the holocaust.. then those people could have been saved. But there was not. And if G-d forbid identical circumstances occurred again, but with a state, then Israel could pass a law to let people with a jewish grandparent in, if they must.  Not calling them jews though. Calling them jews is letting a Hitler define who is a jew. And that is just wrong.

[Khazan]

One the same token though, isn't it wrong to not give protection to non-halacha Jews in lieu of the Nazi definition of who is a Jew conflicting with the Halacha's definition?  Not saying that is the case, of course, modern Israel has modified the law to match this scenario.  What I'm doing is putting it on the table that I feel that things changed after the Holocaust.  In such an instance, I feel it would be better to be inclusive rather than exclusive...the Holocaust wiped out roughly half the world's Jewish population at the time, it may be in the interests of natural selection to reconsider archaic laws. 

Put the ethos of the times of the talmud and the sages to the time after the Holocaust (everyone loves to appeal to past wisdom), one could surely argue there would be a rabbinical commentary regarding the changing of this law given the circumstances.  And on that same token, commentaries arguing against. 

[MassuhDGoodName]

Khazan:  "...I ask you, who is better serving the state of Israel?..."

I must ask you, "Who is it that recently conducted the worst pogroms against Jews seen since the days of the Third Reich?"

"Was it the religious?"...

"Or was it the 'secular non-religious' more than happy to follow orders and throw righteous and decent Jewish families off of their own land in Eretz Yisrael?"

As I recall, it was the Orthodox Jews who warned (correctly and truthfully) what would be the consequences to the Jewish People for such a heinous and cowardly act carried out on the orders of the traitor Sharon.

And now the missiles fall on Eretz Yisrael and the murderous terrorist Muslims maim and destroy Jews.

Our "marching orders" are clear:  "Thou shalt not make any agreement with the inhabitants of the Land."

Without Torah, there is no Jewish People, and without the Land of Israel, the Jewish People are seen as "having no G-d" by non-Jews.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As you can probably tell, I'm not the most religious of persons. 

Most likely, I would take the secular approach with regards to becoming an Israeli citizen.  Don't get me wrong, I find Judaism interesting, I even celebrate some of the holidays at my Uniiversity's Chabad house.  However, I think there is a reason for the secularized version pertaining to citizenship. 

There seems to be a complex both in Israel and on these boards of an "orthodox superiority."  Don't get me wrong, when it comes to religion, none do it better than Orthodox Jews.  However, ironically, many orthodox Jews vouch out of military service for religious reasons, while secular non-maternal "Jews" (halachaly non-Jews) serve in the armed forces.  I ask you, who is better serving the state of Israel? 

There are Orthodox Jews that are antizionist, and Orthodox Jews that are zionist (religious zionists).  Religious zionists are currently the most patriotic group in Israel, the most serving and willing to serve in the military and overrepresented in the highly skilled units.  You don't know much about Israel.

Also, many more charedim (most charedim are antizionist on a theological standpoint against the 'secular zionism movement' but obviously pro aliyah, pro self-defense and anti-surrender to arabs) would serve if there was a JEWISH army, but currently it just isn't one.  And an IDF that sits back and allows Jews to be expelled from homes, you call this "serving the state" '??  I would never serve in an army that does that to the Jewish people.  A Jewish army would serve Hashem and the Jewish people, not "the state."

[Khazan]

I don't know what you are getting at with those questions, Sharon did not pass such law "secularizing" those eligible for aliyah, that was done in the 60's or 70's. 

About the pogroms, why, I'd have to say Arabs.

Again...two sides to every coin.  Those same soldiers expelling Jews are also fighting invaders.  I don't support expulsions, but it should be construed as a necessary evil.  You have the ideal and the practical.  Sure, ideally Olmert orders a helicopter to gun down the dome of the rock and al aqsa mosque so the temple can be built; practically that would infuriate 1 billion Muslims against a world of 13 million Jews, let alone the 5 million Jews in Israel. 

[Wayne Jude]

With God we are majority!Right? Yes!Numbers dont matter!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

" I don't support expulsions, but it should be construed as a necessary evil. "

A NECESSARY EVIL? ARE YOU INSANE??  IT WAS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY, and YES IT WAS EVIL.  It was evil to expel Jews from their own land for committing the "crime" of building homes and communities in it and being loyal to the government.  How can a nation with the gall to call itself "Jewish" dare to commit POGROMS against JEWISH citizens and expel them?  Anyone that would call that "necessary evil" would be LOVED by the antisemites and neonazis.

Your attempt to compare with the dome of the rock situation is completely unrelated and irrelevant to this discussion.