I need help with learning the Sabbath Eve Kiddush

[takebackourtemple]

I have an Art Scroll Siddur and I'm trying to learn the Sabbath Eve Kiddush on page 360 so I can perform it at Bait Knesset on Friday night. The problem that I'm having is the English part which I am trying to use as a reference to learn the Hebrew is not a correct translation. Basically every book I've seen has modified the message to make it more readable for someone only reading it in English. Would someone be able to help me out by giving my the correct unmodified word for work translation? This is my attempt. I have a limited vocabulary and some knowledge of grammer but I can't speak Hebrew. My hope is that if I actually know what I am saying word for word that I'll be able to perform this better.


Day Six. ?Vayiculu? the heavens and earth and all connections. And ?Vycal? [Hashem's name] in day the seventh work that he did, and he rested in day seven from all work that was done. And ?Vyibarech? [Hashem's name] day seven and holy ?Ohto?, because on Shabbat from all work that he ?Bara? [Hashem's name] to do.

Attention Everyone and Rabbis and Rabbis.
Bless you [Hashem's name] g-d king of the world ?baray? ?paree? ?HaGafen?

Bless you [Hashem's name] g-d king of the world, that you make holy us commandments and want in us, and shabbat holy in love and in want our ?hnchilanu?. Remember to ?maasay? creation. Because his day ?tchila? to ?mcraay? holy, Remember the exodus from Egypt. With us ?Bcharta? ?Votanu? holy from all the world. And Shabbat Holy in love and want ?heynchaltanu?. Bless you [Hashem's name], who the holy Shabbat.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Let me get this right you need a translation? ( I have 2 sources- 1 from Siddur and another from this little booklet).

[takebackourtemple]

   I only have one source. The Art Scroll Siddur, page 360. I need an EXACT word for word, hebrew grammer left in tact translation, not one of the typical ones that appears in siddurim and have been modified in the translation process. The translation in my art scroll siddur is not good enough. I made my best attempt at an EXACT translation below, but I don't speak Hebrew so it needs work.

[takebackourtemple]

Thanks. Would it be possible to translate the entire thing? Does Baray mean creator? Does Paree mean fruit? Does Gafen mean vine? What do the other words I put question marks around mean? What are the roots of those words if they are conjugated differently?

The reason I need an exact translation is that I want to understand what I am saying and not just read it with knowledge of the general message.

[q_q_]

As far as how it sounds..

It will not sound any better if you know what it means.

Most people learn it parrot fashion.. Keep repeating it until it is memorised.

I can read hebrew, it is simple. Sound out the words. Then you just get the tune/rhythm and words, from hearing it.  Hearing yourself saying it can help you remember.

Actually, knowing the meaning of the words has nothing to do with correctly following or leading the shul service, or doing kiddush or anything.

It can help with your kavannah. and it is great to understand hebrew. But saying, "oh, I am doing kiddush friday night".. I better know what the words mean.  That is not true at all!

I reckon in many homes they do not know what alot of the words mean. And kids when learning it can do it fine.. and wouldn`t know most of the words.




 

[q_q_]

if you want to know word for word. You could get an artscroll interlinear siddur

looks like this
http://www.judaism.com/gif-bk/36521p.gif

is very popular . Many people use it in shul and when davening at home.  You cannot see the organisation of the prayers so well... But people using that siddur tend to know the organisation very well already.

[takebackourtemple]

I've used them in the past. From my recollection, they are not correct either. If you send me the page with the Shabbat Evening Kiddush, we can go over the differences.

"Most people learn it parrot fashion.. Keep repeating it until it is memorised."

   I've done that before and don't care much for just memorizing sounds and tunes which I will eventually forget anyway. I'm not a robot running a program and when I say it, I want to mean everything that I say. I don't plan to sing it quite yet. The tunes actually throw me off since I cannot read as fast as the timing.

If I just had an EXACT grammer preserved translation, I would be able to prepare for Friday. It shouldn't be that difficult for someone who speaks Hebrew to just write it down.

[q_q_]

you mention vayechulu e.t..c

Isn`t the first paragraph skipped in shul on shabbat night. .   Or rather, the first paragraph is said after the amidah. By the guy doing the amidah.

The person saying kiddush starts from savri... Baruch..HaGofen.  Baruch...asher kidishanu bemitzvatav veratza vanu...

I have a bad memory for the order of the service!

(though I don`t have a problem memorising the words or saying them quickly or to a tune.. they are in the siddur, it is just a matter of reading them over and over again .  But I see you don`t want to do that [yet!])

At home, the first paragraph is said by the guy doing kiddush. followed by the second paragraph

[q_q_]

I know it from memory so can type in the hebrew transliterated.. we can go from there
putting in english, correcting things, putting in grammar.

my transliteration may have mixed ashkenazi and Sefaradi..  We can correct that according to how you want it.


vayehi erev vayehi voker yom hashishi.

vayechulu hashamayim vehaaretz vechol tzuhvaam

vayechal elokim bayom hashevii melachtoh asher asah

Vayishbot bayom hashevii mikol melachtoh asher asah

vayevarech elokim er yom hashvii vayekadesh otoh

kee voh shavat mikol melachto asher barah elokim laasot



Savri maranan verabbanan verabbotai
baruch ata adoshem elokainu melech haolam, borai peri hagofen.



Baruch ata adoshem elokainu melech haolam, asher kiddishanu bemitzvotav veratza vanu,
veshabbat kadshoh beahava uhveratzon hinchilanu, zikaron lemaaseh veraishit.
Kee hoo yom techilah leMikrahai Kodesh, zecher litzeeat mitzraim.
Kee vanu vacharta, veotanu kidasha, mikol haamim. Veshabbat kadshecha, Beahava uvuhratzon hinchaltanu.

Baruch atah adoshem, mekadaish hashabbat.

[q_q_]

i wrote elokainu instead of the real way it is pronounced... and adoshem instead of the real name that is pronounced. and Kayl instead of the real way that is pronounced.

when talking about these things I always changed hashem`s names in that way..

it may be ok to write the proper names here.. i am not sure.

[q_q_]

which words are the problem?

[q_q_]

Day Six. ?Vayiculu? the heavens and earth and all connections.

i think vayechulu means finished/complete.

And they were completed.   The heavens and the earth, and .........
vayechulu, hashamayim vehaaretz..

Now, for tzevaam...   seems to be all that they contain. the things within them.  Their contents.

And ?Vycal? [Hashem's name] in day the seventh work that he did, and he rested in day seven from all work that was done. And ?Vyibarech? [Hashem's name] day seven and holy ?Ohto?, because on Shabbat from all work that he ?Bara? [Hashem's name] to do.

Vayechal, seems to be a different form to Vayechulu. But same root.

seems to be and he finished.

Vayechulu was before, and seems to be "and they were finished"

Vayechal Elokim,   (and G-d finished)

Vayishbot - and he rested(stopped rather.). I think.  In posh english, you can say you are resting from your work.. when you are watching tv. you are doing something else.  He stopped creating the physical world and created shabbat.

Mikol         Melachtoh   Asher    Asah.
from all       work         which  he did

Attention Everyone and Rabbis and Rabbis.
Bless you [Hashem's name] g-d king of the world ?baray? ?paree? ?HaGafen?

Bless you [Hashem's name] g-d king of the world, that you make holy us commandments and want in us, and shabbat holy in love and in want our ?hnchilanu?. Remember to ?maasay? creation. Because his day ?tchila? to ?mcraay? holy, Remember the exodus from Egypt. With us ?Bcharta? ?Votanu? holy from all the world. And Shabbat Holy in love and want ?heynchaltanu?. Bless you [Hashem's name], who the holy Shabbat.

the savri maranan rabbanan verabbotai

not sure what savri means.

you say that even when there are no rabbis around..

My dad thinks its an idiom, for what in english one might call "friends romans and countrymen"

just everybody present


beahava(love) uhveratzon(favour/pleasure)

btw, if you get    bibleworks off emule, it has a hebrew dictionary.

hinchilanu.   
I found the root..  nun chet lamed.
well, nachalah is possession/inheritance/heritage.
the NU at the end of hinchilanu means ours.

So
veshabbat kadshoh beahava uhveratzon hinchilanu

and shabbat  holy (holy shabbat)
in love and pleasure, as our possession


Zikaron lemaasai veraishit   (here, by veraishit, it must mean the story of creation - since it starts with the word beraishit. The word beraishit itself just means "in the beginning of". Not necessarily creation ).
remember the action/act of Creation.

Techilah, seems to mean beginning or first. according to the dictionary. Oddly it was under
words starting with Chet. It says its etymology is unknown.. though it gives a long description.

To be continued..

Why don`t you get a few siddurim.
Get Rabbi Sacks`s siddur too. I plan to. Apparently it has a good translation. very literal. (which is a little suprising)..
It is the latest singers siddur. has a green cover

[takebackourtemple]

I have a hebrew to english dictionary. Tzadik-Bet-Aleph-Mem does not appear in it. Neither the English words array or finished have this word as a definition. What does it mean?

[takebackourtemple]

   From the time stamps I spent the last hour and 33 minutes working on it. I finally got through the entire thing without making any mistakes that I was able to catch. I probably made some anyone, but there is nothing I can do about that. I think I'm going to use this thread to log my time working on this pray, but I don't know how much time I spent earlier today and last night.
   Looks like I did have to rely on a melody afterall. I still only understand about 40% of the words so my goal is far from being achieved. I had to make up my own melody which should be entertaining. Phrases such as "asher asah" and "baray peri hagaffen" I had to make redundant like in berchat ha mazone(which they don't do there). Hopefully that doesn't make the prayer unkosher. I've noticed my congregation doesn't use that style of prayer. They'll say ooshmo echad, ooshmo echad instead of ooshmo, ooshmo echad.

[q_q_]

I have a hebrew to english dictionary. Tzadik-Bet-Aleph-Mem does not appear in it. Neither the English words array or finished have this word as a definition. What does it mean?

The mem is just an ending , probably to say THEIR.  like
eee  means mine.
so shel means of.  shelee means mine.

So Hem, means THEY.  And things ending in Mem may mean theirs.

so just look up the root.. ignore the mem.  Just looking it up from the first letter infact..

tzaddik, vet, aleph.     in the dictionary, means War or Army.

 war, army.

the plural tzevaot  (tzaddik vet aleph   vav taf)
 means    armies, hosts.


But remember.. in hebrew words are very general.  For example, the hebrew word "Off" , often translated as birds. It actually means flying things, and includes flies. As you would see from a tenach concordance.

An array in english is a group of things.

In this case the group of things is clearly the contents of the heavens and the earth.

In tenach it is used to refer to an army, or even a bunch of women praised for proclaiming something..

It seems to be a powerful bunch of things.  powerful in a great way.

jeremiah 19:13, they burned incest to all the hosts of heaven
Tzevah hashamayim - the hosts of heaven.. So the hosts of heaven include everything there.

Tzevah is a plural thing.
part of a larger unit.  

Together they have a power and awe about them.
You can have a plural of that. e.g. Tzevaot , which can or often, means  armies.

That is what I gather from looking at a few usages in tenach.. and from the translation in the TWOT lexicon in bibleworks

[takebackourtemple]

   Maybe "span" is the most accurate translation for the word? I guess if the heaven and earth can be considered elements of the array that hashem allocated.

[q_q_]

It`s not.

THEIR

whose?

heaven and earth.

It means things that come together to form a powerful unit.

You should look at all occurrences and find a definition that works for them all.

Don`t just invent your own thing from nothing. It is not a "span" a distance.  I don`t even know what you mean by that.

Hebrew does not work with majestic flashy specific words .

The translation you come up with is worse than the siddur you criticise. (or any siddur!)


the word refers to THINGS. Not a large area.  Indeed, in all instances, it seems it seems to refer to a large area. If talking in real terms, powerful units of many entities tend to cover a large area. Army. Heaven. e.t.c. So that can just be coincidental.
But anyhow.. It refers to things that form a unit. 

Your translation is just your imagination.

And anyhow. I showed a verse. They burn incense to all the tzevah.   
What are they doing? burning incense to all the span?

come on!
don`t invent things.
if you didn`t invent things then you wouldn`t  need to see a usage that proves it wrong in the first place..
In so many places it referred to an army, and that contains things.
No an army`s tzeva like an army`s span. But the army itself was teh tzeva. Nothing to do with span.

[takebackourtemple]

The translation you come up with is worse than the siddur you criticise. (or any siddur!)
Your translation is just your imagination.

   "Maybe "span" is the most accurate translation for the word?" was asked as a question. I'm not saying that my translation is correct. I'm just trying to figure out what the correct translations is and I'm making a best effort attempt from the little Hebrew that I do know. Imagination is a little bit of a stretch from what I'm doing.
   Span means entirety, while it generally thought of as a finite range, it can also be infinite. I guess a mathematical discussion about this would make interesting talk for the future, but for now I'm trying to prepare the prayer in time. I thought I might have had it, but now I guess I'm still without a clear definition of of this word.

[takebackourtemple]

I spent about another hour on this. So much for for keeping track of the time. I am getting better though. I hope I can read it perfect on Friday night.

[q_q_]

Reading it does not require you to know the meaning.

Infact, I reckon that if you're thinking about the meaning too much, you might not read it fluently. You should concentrate on pronouncing the words, and getting the words right. 

Not saying one part of the thing, and then continuing in a different place, because the words are so similar.  And not saying one word instead of another word. 

You should memorise it, so you can improve your chances if not slipping up..
Or at least have bit memorised so that the siddur is a prompt. Sure, read it from the siddur to be safe..

There are a few points where when memorising,  I tripped up. And had to make a mental note not to.  I won't mention where unless you ask.. Because maybe if I even mention the places, it may have a detrimental effect.  But if you notice yourself making a mistake when you practice it, then you know.. And you can tell since you have a siddur to check.

If you get better at saying it fluently , because of studying the meaning, then ok.. Maybe you find it too boring memorising it.

I went to a jewish school where we set the amidah every day.. ended up memorising it naturally.

But friday night kiddush, I only had bits memorised from hearing it. Only when I kept practicing it myself(not in shul.. but at home alone in a room, or at a table with people around, I did it in my head).  It didn't take "years"!
Shabbat is a LONG TIME, you have lots of time to waste memorising it!

If you have a fault, that you want to read it right get bored too easily when memorising it, even on shabbat (when there really isn't much else to do).. then that's a bit strange..  It's one of the more fulfilling things i've done on a shabbat!   I don't really think too hard on shabbat, e.g. learn hebrew, since you can't write.

[takebackourtemple]

   Prayers are empty without meaning. Maybe if I just memorize all the sounds they will mean something to someone else, but not to me. I cannot learn the Hebrew without the unmodified translation. Tonight I will make another attempt to piece everything together.

[q_q_]

yes, prayers are empty without meaning..

so focus on the fact that you are praising G-d.   

But the fact is, that if you want to say it without getting it wrong in front of everybody, then make sure you can read it fluently.

If you want to look at what all the words mean, before you can read it fluently, then you may go out there not reading it fluently.

The prayer is not meaningless if you do not know what it means.  Know that you are praising G-d.  Do look into what it means.. But not at the cost of reading it fluently.  Rule number 1 is to read it fluently. 

That is not just to save you embarassement (if not reading it fluently is embarassing for you)..
But also because you are saying it on behalf of everybody.

[takebackourtemple]

I need it to read it fluently. It is not at the cost of reading it fluently.

[q_q_]

I need it to read it fluently. It is not at the cost of reading it fluently.

indeed

[takebackourtemple]

I'm still working on it. I'm getting better. Right now it's the parts that I understand that I can breeze through like I'm talking, the parts that i don't understand are where I keep stumbling.