Jews for J---s, aka, Messianic Jews

[Dr. Dan]

i once proved this missionary guy wrong at the end he called me a worshiper of the devil 

sounds like anus-T

oddly enough, he tried to pull off that crap on me too trying to disprove Judaism...and I simply said, "whatever floats your bubble..." and that was the end of the convesation...because he knew deep inside that I was not penetratable to other theologies.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

I'm all for treating people with respect but why do they have to knock on my doors early saturdays to wake me up and at dinner time with my family? I mean come on. I once told something to a group of missionaries, well, let's just say they never came pass my building ever again let alone knock at my apartment.

[JTFFan]

do you know there is a group called Jews for allah

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

the first guy is now a muslim terrorist

Sounds like a Nazi muSSlim site to me!

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

last summer couple of my friends and i saw a bunch of them in Brooklyn we attacked verbally and physically, they themselves are brainwashed

I was one of them we destroyed their fliers and their van!!

[FULL METAL JACKET]

do you know there is a group called Jews for allah

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

the first guy is now a muslim terrorist

Sounds like a Nazi muSSlim site to me!

If I remember correctly, did you know that guy pictured in the site was actually a drug dealer? He converted to islam in prison.

[JTFFan]

do you know there is a group called Jews for allah

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

the first guy is now a muslim terrorist

Sounds like a Nazi muSSlim site to me!

If I remember correctly, did you know that guy pictured in the site was actually a drug dealer? He converted to islam in prison.

Well, he sure looks like a worn out drug dealer.

[q_q_]

That guy pictured on that site is the same yusuf al khattab guy.. the same khayburkhaybur / seefouratyourdoor guy on youtube. 

a youtube clip from a tv interview, has him praising a female suicide bomber as his sister in islam.

I don`t think he was ever in prison

He is the only jew for allah. There was one person on that site that might have a jewish ancestor.. None had a jewish mother, except al khattab.

The site was basically an attempt to be as successful as jews for jesus.  A very unsuccessful attempt!

There was one confused jew there who was a muslim temporarily, then returned to judaism.

[LindaSoG]

i once proved this missionary guy wrong at the end he called me a worshiper of the devil 

My father once said to me... "It breaks my heart that I will be in heaven and you will be in hell."  I simply could not continue to hear that kind of thing from my father and that's why we don't talk anymore.

For a while, he was simply a Christian, he was tolerable then and we could have a relationship.  But once the JfJ got him, it got ugly fast. In every conversation, nothing but Jesus Jesus Jesus and nothing I said would have any effect, in every instance, in every way, it was a constant assault on me, and my beliefs. 

[YESHA]

A question posed to Chaim Ben Pesach by JTF Forum poster “Hidden Author”, on an ASK JTF show, in February, 2008. Question and answer paraphrased by Zev Ben Yisrael “YESHA”.

Q: “You may dislike missionaries, but they are driven by a missionaries and belief that all humanity including the Jews needs C for salvation. It is unsavoury to attack those missionaries and those who attack them silence them because they are unable to counter them in a debate”.

Answer: A number of points, pious Jews won’t have much difficulty beating missionaries in a legitimate debate! It would be quite easy to defeat them in a debate. Missionaries know little or nothing about the history of Judaism or Christianity for that matter. They certainly don’t know what the Bible means, especially in its original language. They don’t understand it. If Christians wish to go to fellow Christians, that’s OK and there is not problem with that. But if Jews went knocking on doors of Christians and tell them unless you become a Jew you are going to hell, one would understand if violence would break out. It is therefore hyprocartical for those who attack Jews who attack missionaries in a physical manner.

They, Christian missionaries and some other Christians are outraged when this happens, but they think they could attack the Jewish religion and get away with it! Jews are doing a favour for Jews, Christians, gentiles and all people who want honesty, when they physically attack these missionaries and fraudsters.       

“Jews for J” is a cult, not reflective of genuine Christianity, which leading Bible-believing Christian leaders over the years have attacked and condemned these vicious, low-life tactics as terrible, giving a name to Christians. These are not sincere people, but evil people who are lying. They deliberately twist and misinterpret scripture, by lying and distorting; they are misrepresenting, misleading and are causing fraud. These people committing fraud and lying are criminals.  “Jews for J” often dress as religious Jews and target assimilated Jews and Jews who don’t know any better and twisting and lying about verses in the Bible. These guys dress as rabbis and mislead these Jews, by deliberate misinterpretation and mistranslation, when they don’t believe in any of that. If the law is not going to punish them, then Jews have the right to punish them and hard! This cult deliberately distorts Bible verses to steal Jewish souls, by committing spiritual and religious fraud. That’s a crime! 

[Dr. Dan]

i once proved this missionary guy wrong at the end he called me a worshiper of the devil 

My father once said to me... "It breaks my heart that I will be in heaven and you will be in hell."  I simply could not continue to hear that kind of thing from my father and that's why we don't talk anymore.

For a while, he was simply a Christian, he was tolerable then and we could have a relationship.  But once the JfJ got him, it got ugly fast. In every conversation, nothing but Jesus Jesus Jesus and nothing I said would have any effect, in every instance, in every way, it was a constant assault on me, and my beliefs. 

[q_q_]

i once proved this missionary guy wrong at the end he called me a worshiper of the devil 

My father once said to me... "It breaks my heart that I will be in heaven and you will be in hell."  I simply could not continue to hear that kind of thing from my father and that's why we don't talk anymore.

For a while, he was simply a Christian, he was tolerable then and we could have a relationship.  But once the JfJ got him, it got ugly fast. In every conversation, nothing but Jesus Jesus Jesus and nothing I said would have any effect, in every instance, in every way, it was a constant assault on me, and my beliefs. 

please my friend, make your father watch the video its titled "The Debate" its on the homepage on torahanytime.com if you want the link ill post it

Yonatan, did you hear the debate I liked to..  How do you think they compare?
http://www.therealmessiah.com/audio/IsJesusTheJewishMessiahDrBrownAndDrSchochetNew.mp3

That is actually the leading J4J missionary, Dr Brown himself, defeated in debate.

And it`s a very fairly moderated debate.

What do you think of Rabbi Dr J I Schochet?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

    Michael L. Brown a Jewish Believer in Jesus has written 4 volumes
called "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus"
         Has his 4 volumes been Refuted..
I heard he is going to come out with a 5th volume

http://torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 1
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 2

 You will find your answers. Also if you want more you can just locate Rav Tovia Singer on that site, who also has a lot of anti-missionary Shiurim. But definitly check out this famous debate.

Rabbi Mizrachi really hammered this guy.  That was impressive. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

    Michael L. Brown a Jewish Believer in Jesus has written 4 volumes
called "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus"
         Has his 4 volumes been Refuted..
I heard he is going to come out with a 5th volume

http://torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 1
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 2

 You will find your answers. Also if you want more you can just locate Rav Tovia Singer on that site, who also has a lot of anti-missionary Shiurim. But definitly check out this famous debate.

Rabbi Mizrachi really hammered this guy.  That was impressive. 

the guy at the end said he was Jewish, i think he realized himself that he was wrong

lol, when he said that I was shocked actually.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Rabbi Mizrachi really hammered this guy.  That was impressive. 

Great! I'm soooo listening to this now!!!
I greatly LOATHE michael brown!!! Him and his lying tongue that destroys so many Jewish souls! He is a terrible person!

I think michael brown was the other video.  Rabbi Shochet debates him.  Rabbi Mizrachi debates another guy who I don't know who he is.  But I liked  Rabbi Shochet's also.  The best part for me was when he says, "LEAVE THE JEWS ALONE!"

[LindaSoG]

i once proved this missionary guy wrong at the end he called me a worshiper of the devil 

My father once said to me... "It breaks my heart that I will be in heaven and you will be in hell."  I simply could not continue to hear that kind of thing from my father and that's why we don't talk anymore.

For a while, he was simply a Christian, he was tolerable then and we could have a relationship.  But once the JfJ got him, it got ugly fast. In every conversation, nothing but Jesus Jesus Jesus and nothing I said would have any effect, in every instance, in every way, it was a constant assault on me, and my beliefs. 

please my friend, make your father watch the video its titled "The Debate" its on the homepage on torahanytime.com if you want the link ill post it

Yonatan, did you hear the debate I liked to..  How do you think they compare?
http://www.therealmessiah.com/audio/IsJesusTheJewishMessiahDrBrownAndDrSchochetNew.mp3

That is actually the leading J4J missionary, Dr Brown himself, defeated in debate.

And it`s a very fairly moderated debate.

What do you think of Rabbi Dr J I Schochet?

Q Q did you hear
http://torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 1
11/07/07 The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian  Part 2

Thank you everyone, for your kind words and support, and information! 
I am watching the Debate right now.

[q_q_]

yes, I heard some of the rav mizrachi one.. was quite funny, with a little picture in the corner showing the christian's reaction.. rav mizrachi made some good arguments.. and the other guy's reaction to them was amusing.

Regarding rabbi dr jacob immanuel schochet (who debated dr brown)
Here are 2 pictures to go with the voice!
http://www.iltsp.org/Images/PortraitSchochet.gif
http://www.chabad.org/media/images/52/DTLt525337.jpg

very logical guy..

He comes from an unbroken chain of rabbis stretching back 2 centuries!!!!

His son is a rabbi in london.. quite entertaining..

But this guy, Rabbi Dr Jacob Immanuel Schochet, he is like the King of them!


Dr brown gets a bit boring in parts, so I skip some of his stuff sometimes, he was just trying to win him over with love 'cos sall his arguments were failing. Rabbi Schochet has a very distinctive voice..and went through him like a knife through butter.

I think it was actually a christian and part messianic audience
Very fairly moderated. Organised. academically done debate.

[Christian Zionist]

I do not like Jews for Jesus.  Their activities do more harm to Christianity than good.  First century real missionaries spent more time with God in prayer and fasting but these people spend more time on streets. The relationship between Messianic Jews and Mainstream Christians are not excellent either.  Some of the Messianic Jewish leaders have started developing "Messianic Halacha" which has no place in Christianity. 

Christians cannot use the Tanak which is based upon the Masoretic text because only in 6 places the New Testament authors quote the Masoretic text.  Rest of the quotes were from Dead Sea Scrolls/Septuagint (not exacly but some different manuscript close to DSS/LXX which was accessible to the first centurty Christians).  Therefore it is obvious that the NT writers used a different manuscript of the Tanach.  That is the reason the debates between Jewish and Christian scholars are futile and often counter productive. Jewish scholars are masters in Hebrew and when they quote from the Masoretic text it does not parallel with the greek of the NT.  I checked some verses quoted in NT from the Tanach.  They were similar to the greek Tanach/DSS but give a totally different meaning when compared to Hebrew.

That is the reason, I generally do not like debates but if there is some scholarly presentation I read it for research purposes like this one:

http://www.geocities.com/nakdimonspage/letsgetcritical.html

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

But wouldn't that cause a big problem for Christians' belief?

You basically just said, Christians cite from a Greek "translation" of the Hebrew text not the text itself, therefore of 'course the rabbis are masters of Hebrew they know the Hebrew text but the Christians know the greek.'  The problem for messianics is that the interpretations of the greek are of course not authentic to the true meaning!  In reality, this just shows that they (the Christians) got the interpretation wrong if they try to cite and interpret from a greek "translation" rather than the text itself and without a knowledge of Hebrew.  The original text is in Hebrew and to understand Tanakh requires knowledge of Hebrew. 

[Ulli]

I do not like Jews for Jesus.  Their activities do more harm to Christianity than good.  First century real missionaries spent more time with G-d in prayer and fasting but these people spend more time on streets. The relationship between Messianic Jews and Mainstream Christians are not excellent either.  Some of the Messianic Jewish leaders have started developing "Messianic Halacha" which has no place in Christianity. 

Christians cannot use the Tanach which is based upon the Masoretic text because only in 6 places the New Testament authors quote the Masoretic text.  Rest of the quotes were from Dead Sea Scrolls/Septuagint (not exacly but some different manuscript close to DSS/LXX which was accessible to the first centurty Christians).  Therefore it is obvious that the NT writers used a different manuscript of the Tanach.  That is the reason the debates between Jewish and Christian scholars are futile and often counter productive. Jewish scholars are masters in Hebrew and when they quote from the Masoretic text it does not parallel with the greek of the NT.  I checked some verses quoted in NT from the Tanach.  They were similar to the greek Tanach/DSS but give a totally different meaning when compared to Hebrew.

That is the reason, I generally do not like debates but if there is some scholarly presentation I read it for research purposes like this one:

http://www.geocities.com/nakdimonspage/letsgetcritical.html

I have never heard of this. 

[mord]

Rest of the quotes were from Dead Sea Scrolls/Septuagint (not exacly but some different manuscript close to DSS/LXX which was accessible to the first centurty Christians).

  THE SEPTUAGINT was transalated by Rabbis into Greek the Dead sea scrols were in Heb and aramiac

[Ultra Requete]

Rest of the quotes were from Dead Sea Scrolls/Septuagint (not exacly but some different manuscript close to DSS/LXX which was accessible to the first centurty Christians).

  THE SEPTUAGINT was transalated by Rabbis into Greek the Dead sea scrols were in Heb and aramiac

So which translation is closer to dead sea scrolls The Masoteric or SEPTUAGINT? Do dead sea scrolls contain entire Tanath? Is anybody using this as oficial version? Christains in first century were diaspora Jews using SEPTUAGINT which post Temple Judaism gradualu stoped to use after counclil of Yawneh around 90 CE. And JFJ are using methods of another anoying sect the Jehova witnesess; they use only their version of scriptures and claim that both Jews and Christians are going to hell.