Question To Religious Christians on The JTF Forum

[admin]

I asked the following question to Chaim for next week. What do Christians here think about this topic?

What is your opinion on Christians celebrating Secular New Year's Eve? In Christianity, January 1 as The New Year marks Jesus's brit milah since he is said to have been born on December 25, therefore making his brit on January 1, 1 C.E.. However, many Christians just think it a time to party. What do you think of the Christians who party for it instead of going to church?

Note: Brit Milah is Jewish circumcision.

[Jizzepie]

I'm in a Celtic Catholic Church(not the same as the heretics in the US) and we celebrate January 1st as the 'feast of the circumcision'. I believe some traditionalist churches celebrate the feast in May. It's a mandatory holy day in our church, and it's generally frowned upon if you don't attend.

[Jizzepie]

It's considered a sin, I think.

[Christian Zionist]

Yacov, thanks for the question.

Our New Testament clearly states that drunkards will not go to heaven!  However we have our liberal theologians and their followers who do want to take the following verses (given below) literally and they think that these verses were written in a "different cultural" context. One thing we (religious Christians) can be certain about: the "drinking Christians" are going to a warm place in the other world. The circumcision of Jesus should be celebrated with great reverence.  Circumcision on the 8th day is important. For religious Christians the number 8 means new.  G-d makes every thing new, hence the "new" year. new life, new beginning etc.


1 Corinthians 6:9,10
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of G-d? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of G-d."

Ephesians 5:18
"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit"

Romans 14:17
"For the kingdom of G-d is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"

Galatians 5:21-22
envy, drunkenness, wild partying, and similar things. I've told you in the past and I'm telling you again that people who do these kinds of things will not inherit the kingdom of G-d
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness

(Emphasis added)

In obedience to the verses mentioned above and other related verses in the Tanak I have never tasted alcohal in my life nor smoked.

Unfortunately many Church Pastors do not condemn drunkeness because they fear that they might loose income coming to the Church. They are like the reformed clergy in Judaism. For religious Christians what the Church says is NOT important but what the Bible says is important.

[Jizzepie]

What do you do?

I always go to church on the mandatory holy days.

[Christian Zionist]

In Judaism, drinking wine is important. It is part of many religious ceremonies.

I understand that Christians also use wine for their religious purposes.

Of course that doesn't mean people have to abuse wine. Chaim has said wine is healthy in moderation.

The wine used in the Christian holy communion is not intoxicating.

In Biblical times wine was widely used however the proportion of alcohol used was significantly less unlike the wine manufactured with more alcoholic content today.

Therefore drinking wine in moderation is applicable only when the wine is prepared according to the fermentation methods and grape juice /water ratio followed during the Biblical times.

Tanak On Drunkenness:

Isaiah 5: 22  Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks.
Proverbs on Drunkenness

    Pr 23:29-35 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine. Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things. Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying: "They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?"

    Pr 20:1  Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

    Pr 21:17  He who loves pleasure will be a poor man; He who loves wine and oil will not be rich.

    Pr 31:4-5 "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, It is not for kings to drink wine, Nor for princes intoxicating drink;  Lest they drink and forget the law, And pervert the justice of all the afflicted." However it goes on to say, "Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to those who are bitter of heart. Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his misery no more." Pr 31:6,7

Of course those last two verse need to be interpreted in view of what the rest of the Bible says. My interpretation is that while those who need to be constantly alert should not drink at all, it is OK to provide some pleasure or attempt to relieve the pain of those who are in misery - as long as it doesn't cross the line into sin, like drunkenness.

Tanak verses for the use of wine:

nder the Law of Moses one was allowed to spend part of their tithe for the consumption of alcohol.

    Deut 14:23-26 "Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away),  then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice."

Its allowance is also spoken of in  Isaiah 25:6  "On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine-- the best of meats and the finest of wines."


       
Therefore it is best if Christians abstain from alcohol. And while they have the freedom to drink, they certainly don't have the right to get drunk. And, in the name of love for others, they should be careful that the exercise of their rights does not embolden the weak to fall into the sin of drunkenness.

[Jizzepie]

I could never abstain from alcohol. I'm on jagermester right now, and I love it. It's only a sin if you get quite drunk.