Why do you think early man lived for almost 1000 years in the Bible?

[jdl4ever]

Why don't we live for so long?  Was it due to the diet they ate or to the area they lived in?  Or due to some unknown factor?  Was there just less pollution back then?  Was it a miracle of G-d? 

[q_q_]

book by prof natan aviezer, he thinks genetic.

example he gives is noah lived for > 900 years, but his wife lived around 100 years(can`t remember how long),

his wife`s genetics may have spread from there after the flood.


from there, deterioration in the environment brought us down from around

Ageing is a phenomena..  I think natan aviezer wrote that he thinks in those days they might have lived forever, then died due to some terrible accident e.g. killed by an animal.   A bit far fetched though(like why do they all tend to live to around 1000, working downwards).


causes to consider would be environment pre flood compared to after the flood.. and further deterioration after the flood..   And also noah`s wife.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Early man didn't actually live for 1000 years.

They had no indoor plumbing, no toilet paper, no refrigerators, no washing machines, no central air & heating, no audio, no video, no stereo, no automobiles, no telephones, no TV, no cable, no computers, and no internet.

That is why a life span of 30 years felt like it lasted 1000 years!
 
                                             

[Dominater96]

Which Aviezer book? I dont "hold" by his philosophy on maaseh bereshit, I go by Rabbi Natan Slifkin.

[q_q_]

woooooooh

I wouldn't call it maaseh beraishit. 

I think the natan aviezer book he wrote that in was "fossils and faith".  He also has one called "in the beginning", that I haven't read.

note- a difference between him and shroeder is he goes by plain text only to reconcile, but shroeder uses tradition too.  neither method is wrong.. If you can reconcile from pshat then great.


You don't have to "hold" by any position..  These are theories none of which we can be sure is correct.

[OdKahaneChai]

Someone in Párshas Noach, there's a symbol that the maximum human life span is going to drop to around 120 years, I forget where...

[jdl4ever]

However, this could mean that it would be 120 years from that time until the Flood took place where most people were wiped out, which is probably the correct meaning because there were many people after this time who lived over 120 years.

Yeah, that's what I think it means as well. 

[OdKahaneChai]

However, this could mean that it would be 120 years from that time until the Flood took place where most people were wiped out, which is probably the correct meaning because there were many people after this time who lived over 120 years.

Yeah, that's what I think it means as well. 

That's the pshat, but I believe the midrash says that this is also a sign that the maximum life span will slowly descend to around 120 years...

[jdl4ever]

But then why did many people live past 120 years?  That would violate G-d's will.  But it does make sense that it's a hint that eventually men will live on average not past 120 years or about 120 years like you stated.  Although it is not a perfect derivation since the verse didn't say "about 120 years" and even if it is an estimate, there are a few recent individuals who lived in the upper 120's to 130 years without birth records so if their story is true, 130 would be a better estimate.

[OdKahaneChai]

But then why did many people live past 120 years?  That would violate G-d's will. 

I repeat, slowly descend.

[q_q_]

seems from a graph of ages given
http://www.philipcoppens.com/g5_lifespans.jpg
note- that graph is BCE, for example, Abraham was around 1850 BCE

and combining that info with that pasuk(verse) about G-d not wanting to argue with man for so long, so shortening his life to 120..!!!!!

There was a gradual descent in years, down to that and below. G-d probably did it naturally somehow - perhaps through the environment. That is why it was not instantaneous.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...there were many people after this time who lived over 120 years..."

It's a shame they didn't stop smoking...they'd have lived to 130 years had they stubbed out the Marlboros!

[Dominater96]

woooooooh

I wouldn't call it maaseh beraishit. 

I think the natan aviezer book he wrote that in was "fossils and faith".  He also has one called "in the beginning", that I haven't read.

note- a difference between him and shroeder is he goes by plain text only to reconcile, but shroeder uses tradition too.  neither method is wrong.. If you can reconcile from pshat then great.


You don't have to "hold" by any position..  These are theories none of which we can be sure is correct.

The book was called "Beresheit Barah" -"In the beginning"

[q_q_]

I did not say the book was called that.

But you used the term talking about rabbi slifkin's philosophy of "maaseh beraishit"..   

Maaseh beraishit and Maaseh Merkava are 2 mystical/kabbalistic concepts mentioned of in the talmud, but not described..   They are Lost oral traditions.

Rabbi Slifkin, is not writing on kabbalah.. As you know..

But I am just alerting you to the meaning of the term "maaseh beraishit".

It's not just 2 words strung together. It's a mystical tradition on beraishit, called that.

note- maimonideans (I think) reject all kabbalah post talmud, "but" would accept that there was a tradition of maaseh beraishit and maaseh merkava.  They are lost traditions though. (I think even the RAMBAM said he did not have a tradition on them)
note- not sure what they make of sefer yetzirah - a kabbalistic text, a google search said something like- it is from the maaseh beraishit school of thought..

[q_q_]

The book is here
http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Biblical-Creation-Science/dp/0881253286

It is called "In the Beginning " and also says like a title on the bottom of the cover "Biblical creation and science".


It happens to say Beraishit Bara too(the first 2 words of the book of beraishit), in the picture. I don't think the title is beraishit bara.
And it is an english book.

I actually heard the name of the title in an interview, from the author himself.  He said it was called "In The Beginning"             

[q_q_]

The other book was by prof natan aviezer  was

Fossils and Faith: Understanding Torah and Science

http://www.amazon.com/Fossils-Faith-Understanding-Torah-Science/dp/0881256072/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

He just uses the plain meaning of the biblical text.. not tradition.
Gerald Shroeder e.g. in Genesis and the big bang, uses tradition.

[Dominater96]

I did not say the book was called that.

But you used the term talking about rabbi slifkin's philosophy of "maaseh beraishit"..   

Maaseh beraishit and Maaseh Merkava are 2 mystical/kabbalistic concepts mentioned of in the talmud, but not described..   They are Lost oral traditions.

Rabbi Slifkin, is not writing on kabbalah.. As you know..

But I am just alerting you to the meaning of the term "maaseh beraishit".

It's not just 2 words strung together. It's a mystical tradition on beraishit, called that.

note- maimonideans (I think) reject all kabbalah post talmud, "but" would accept that there was a tradition of maaseh beraishit and maaseh merkava.  They are lost traditions though. (I think even the RAMBAM said he did not have a tradition on them)
note- not sure what they make of sefer yetzirah - a kabbalistic text, a google search said something like- it is from the maaseh beraishit school of thought..

Didnt the Rambam write a chapter in the Moreh on the Merkava?

[MassuhDGoodName]

I read In The Beginning.

Excellent book.

G-d created The Beginning.

[q_q_]

I did not say the book was called that.

But you used the term talking about rabbi slifkin's philosophy of "maaseh beraishit"..   

Maaseh beraishit and Maaseh Merkava are 2 mystical/kabbalistic concepts mentioned of in the talmud, but not described..   They are Lost oral traditions.

Rabbi Slifkin, is not writing on kabbalah.. As you know..

But I am just alerting you to the meaning of the term "maaseh beraishit".

It's not just 2 words strung together. It's a mystical tradition on beraishit, called that.

note- maimonideans (I think) reject all kabbalah post talmud, "but" would accept that there was a tradition of maaseh beraishit and maaseh merkava.  They are lost traditions though. (I think even the RAMBAM said he did not have a tradition on them)
note- not sure what they make of sefer yetzirah - a kabbalistic text, a google search said something like- it is from the maaseh beraishit school of thought..

Didnt the Rambam write a chapter in the Moreh on the Merkava?

oh... would have to check. "the guide" is online on sacred-texts website..
I do recall form an english translation saying him saying in "the guide" that he had no tradition on maaseh beraishit.. would have tocheck the hebrew to know for sure.   
He might have talked about the mervaka.. I don't know.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

G-d's Will. He made it threw partly by the much better climate. Also the species before the flood was much more stronger then now. The quality of nature declines each generation, and even the fruits and vegetables that your parents and grandparents ate growing up were much better in quality then now.
 This is one of the reasons why G-d will feed the rightious after Moshiah comes from the Shor BarLiviatan (a very big ancient fish) that was killed and hidden at the time of creation. One will be eaten, the other I dont remember right now. It is going to taste very good, because the fish is from ancient times thus it didn't reduce its quality in taste as opposed to the fish lets say being small, reproducing and us then eating the fresh fish.

[q_q_]

G-d's Will. He made it threw partly by the much better climate. Also the species before the flood was much more stronger then now. The quality of nature declines each generation, and even the fruits and vegetables that your parents and grandparents ate growing up were much better in quality then now.
<snip>

actually, if you ask my grandma, milk nowadays doesn't go off!!

[q_q_]

This is one of the reasons why G-d will feed the rightious after Moshiah comes from the Shor BarLiviatan (a very big ancient fish) that was killed and hidden at the time of creation. One will be eaten, the other I dont remember right now. It is going to taste very good, because the fish is from ancient times thus it didn't reduce its quality in taste as opposed to the fish lets say being small, reproducing and us then eating the fresh fish.

 

Don't start.

You reject kabbalah and are an ignoramous. And he accepts anything , without sources. If it is from a rabbi or website that he trusts, and he trusts some strange websites.

I knew you would respond and that would complel tzvi to defend his holy information.That is why I made a joke, to try to satisfy you. But no, it wasn't enough.. !!!!!

Seriously though. realise your own shortcomings, and his. 

Your comments about kabbalah have been refuted by people alot more skeptical than Tzvi. If you want, then refer people to the thread you discussed it in.. The thread that you stopped responding in.   (maybe you stopped responding because you upset the chassidic moderator by saying that chassidut was idolatry. Shows how ignorant you are.  Of course, you prob think the same about kabbalah, so you could have avoided that).

If you were serious then you wouldn't start a serious discussion, then leave. And then provoke tzvi.  When tzvi has also been challenged  - in serious posts - by people alot more knowledgeable and sensible than you.

We know, you reject kabbalah..  tzvi accepts it. That is that.

Whether Tzvi is textually correct in his kabbalistic claim, or where he is correct and where incorrect.. That is another matter too beyond your knowledge for you to criticise directly.  You do not even distinguish between Madonna's so-called "kabbalah" and the Arizal's kabbalah - and of course you know as much of the latter as you do of the former. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Actually that is from the Gemorrah. Both the big fish and about nature decreasing in quality/ decaying.  (and I didn't get your joke).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Many sources available here is one

The word Leviathan is mentioned in Rashi's commentary on Genesis 1:21: "G-d created the great sea monsters - Taninim." Jastrow translates the word "Taninim" as "sea monsters, crocodiles or large snakes". Rashi comments: "According to legend this refers to the Leviathan and its mate. G-d created a male and female Leviathan, then killed the female and salted it for the righteous, for if the Leviathans were to procreate the world could not stand before them."

 Just made a search and got this on Wikepidia

According to a midrash, the leviathan was created on the fifth day (Yalkut, Gen. 12). Originally God produced a male and a female leviathan, but lest in multiplying the species should destroy the world, He slew the female, reserving her flesh for the banquet that will be given to the righteous on the advent of the Messiah (B. B. 74a).

[takebackourtemple]

   This was a time before hashem had given many miraculous things to the world such as the torah and the 613 Miztvot. While Hashem's power is infinate, what could be seen by man was likely the same throughout creation. While I don't think that the giving of miracles would take away years from our lives perhaps this could explain how Hashem was never lacking in his kindness even before they were given.
   Perhaps he made our lives shorter so we could make it to the next world sooner.