Guns and Self-Defense > Guns/Firearms
Your thoughts on Nazi surplus firearms with the swastika & people who own them?
White Israelite:
So I feel this may be a controversial topic for some people. I would like to know what Jewish and Gentile views on people owning Nazi surplus weapons are?
at gun shows, there are many replica KAR98's floating around, sometimes with swastika intact. I think that replicas are rather stupid and have no value, however there are some authentic pieces of Nazi surplus weapons like hitler youth daggers, lugers, p-38, kar98, MP44, and other rare weapons with matching serials and the swastika is part of what makes these weapons so high valued. These type of items may attract a variety of people from world war II buffs, collectors, regular shooters, or perhaps even a number of neo nazis.
I've asked a few Jewish gun owners their view on it, one in particular felt very offended by the topic and stated "no Jew in his right mind would EVER own a Nazi weapon!"
while I may take a bit more conservative view on the topic of firearms with swastika intact, I view them purely from a historical viewpoint, I view a weapon as a inanimate object that has no loyalty but the person behind the firearm. This is my personal aspect and I feel the swastika being a symbol has no relevance to how the weapon operates or the people that used that symbol for their political motives. I feel that the only person who profits from the purchase of these weapons are the dealers or the shops who sell them, we have to remember many of these weapons were confiscated during the war and kept in US armory for years packed in cosmoline and finally sold back to the public.
To put a bit more understanding behind the selection of the poll, here are the options.
Option 1: It's just a peice of history, who cares?
You selection this, it means you have no objection to people owning a firearm of Nazi origin with swastika intact. You feel weapons have no loyalty and that a person should be able to own the firearm in it's original status without modification.
Option 2: Owning Nazi firearms are fine, but the swastika on the weapons is not and should be removed
If you vote for option 2, you support the idea of owning Nazi surplus weapons but not with the swastika intact, basically a politically correct version of the firearm. The Israelis imported Czech KAR98's and grounded off the swastika and stamped a star of david over where the swastika originally was.
Option 3: Dude are you freakin insane?! Nobody should own a weapon made by the Nazis swastika or not!
You are completely against the idea of owning any weapon made in Germany during the Nazi era, you feel it is symbolic to what the Nazis did to the Jews and the weapons used against Jews and should be completely destroyed along with Nazi history as if it never existed. Some feel very emotional over the idea these weapons were used to kill Jews and allies and feel it is better if the weapons did not exist.
Option 4: Jews shouldn't own any weapons with swastikas on them, but it's ok if others do
You feel that it is acceptable that Nazi surplus weapons are floating around and don't care if others purchase them but feel that Jews should not own them because of the swastika or who was behind them
Option 5: Other
State your reason
I have a similar approach with commie weapons, the communists killed millions of people yet we are not removing the sickle and star from weapons, we simply purchase the weapons and use them.
There are people that refuse to use foreign weapons and will only use American weapons. If the SHTF tomorrow, I am curious if that would be a wise move skipping on using a enemies weapon because of patriotic pride? Use what you can to survive, that's my view on it.
Americanhero1:
i collect antique things i have An America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 as well
White Israelite:
--- Quote from: Americanhero on March 31, 2008, 04:51:36 PM ---i collect antique things i have An America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 as well
--- End quote ---
I don't own any Nazi marked weapons myself, but I have shot a friends Mauser KAR98 and it had a US armory stamp on the barrel. It also had the eagle with the swastika intact and it was in really good condition. It was used in Stalingrad, there was a bunch of scratches near the stock, looked like the soldier who was carrying it ended up getting shot and landed on the stock or something in some rubble.
It was 8mm, very accurate rifle, smooth action and well built.
I had this discussion with a Jewish friend of mine about shooting the rifle and he felt very...emotional about the idea that I was shooting a weapon made in Nazi Germany and had said "How do you know that weapon wasn't used to kill fellow Jews in a concentration camp?" I responded saying "The 3rd reich is dead, this weapon may have once been used for evil, but now it is being used for good, who's hands do you prefer it in?" he didn't like the response, but I have the understanding that we have used many designs from the Nazis to advance and perfect our lifestyle. We used experimentation results from the Japanese and allowed their generals to escape without prosecution for medical advances, we used Wernher von Braun for use of rockets to compete with the Soviets, our helmets derive from the older German Nazi helmets, and the MG42 is still considered one of the best machine gun designs ever made. It may not seem morally right, but I guess this is not really a debate about survival and using what you can, rather Jewish and Gentile view of ownership of such weapons and how they are marked?
I like to collect weapons because I feel I am owning a piece of history, others may not feel the same and that is why I would like to hear their responses and why they feel that way.
newman:
It's a silly issue to get worked up about.
Jews in Israel had over 1 million ex-nazi Mauser rifles WITH nazi proof marks that they used to establish their state and defend themselves from both British AND arab nazis. If ever there was proof that a weapon has no malevelence or morallity in and of itself , this is it.
They did deface the nazi markings later, but this was symbolic. It was to 'ideologically purify' the rifles. Given that hitler's ovens were barely cold at the time, I can understand it.
A nazi proof-marked, soviet stamped or British Empire stamped rifle has no ideology. Any weapon is only as good or bad as it's user.
I have no poblem with righteous Americans using former nazi or communist weapons to defend their liberty.
White Israelite:
--- Quote from: newman on March 31, 2008, 09:22:24 PM ---It's a silly issue to get worked up about.
Jews in Israel had over 1 million ex-nazi Mauser rifles WITH nazi proof marks that they used to establish their state and defend themselves from both British AND arab nazis. If ever there was proof that a weapon has no malevelence or morallity in and of itself , this is it.
They did deface the nazi markings later, but this was symbolic. It was to 'ideologically purify' the rifles. Given that hitler's ovens were barely cold at the time, I can understand it.
A nazi proof-marked, soviet stamped or British Empire stamped rifle has no ideology. Any weapon is only as good or bad as it's user.
I have no poblem with righteous Americans using former nazi or communist weapons to defend their liberty.
--- End quote ---
I agree, just wondering what others stances are on this. Use what works.
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