Tattooing of Jews.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

I believe in a very compassionate G-d.   I think he can forgive things such as tattoos and being cremated.

I 100% agree with you Ari, G-d is all forgiving. And a loving Father 

 G-d says specifically that if you say that ill sin and G-d will forgive, or its not a big deal, etc. G-d is expecially going to severly punish that person. I understand we are not perfect, and the sins we did in the past, we did in the past, we should make proper Tishuva on it. BUT to specifically plan on making sins, wayy into the future to add to that, I dont see any logic to that. It is spiritual suicide, and I have no doubt that that person will NOT go to a higher place after they die. At the very least if they merit it they will have to go back into many many harsh tikkunim (soul corrections) which is no joke, and that is if they have some merits, if not then they could loose it all, forever. It is no joke, either way you loose. The proper way is to follow the ways (Halachot) of G-d, and not use our distorted opinion on matters.

Many Jews have been cremated throughout history, in one way or another. And G-d knows that.
Regardless of everything G-d is the one that judges not mere humans.

 So? Was it because of their choice? or it happened that way? - Its like saying many Jews have eaten non-kosher food in history, the question is was it because they were literally starving and had to or else they would die, or because the doller menu is cheaper then the Kosher food, or they have a desire to eat cheese burgers.

you have gone off topic, the question was about Hilter tattooing Jews, not about what I do.

So do you think that if Jew is put in that situation they can enter heaven?

 I thought that I explained it in the different number of posts (I even said that, its not necessarly a formula type thing).
  My answer again is YES. They are not at fault for getting a number tattoed on them (for now well only deal with the present life, dont want to get it more complicated), or even worse being cremated (if they were). This simply was done by the nazi YSV, agains't them. BUT that is in no way the same as a person choosing on his/her own free will to do these things, expecially cremation.

Do you think a soul can be totally destroyed?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I believe in a very compassionate G-d.   I think he can forgive things such as tattoos and being cremated.

I 100% agree with you Ari, G-d is all forgiving. And a loving Father 

 G-d says specifically that if you say that ill sin and G-d will forgive, or its not a big deal, etc. G-d is expecially going to severly punish that person. I understand we are not perfect, and the sins we did in the past, we did in the past, we should make proper Tishuva on it. BUT to specifically plan on making sins, wayy into the future to add to that, I dont see any logic to that. It is spiritual suicide, and I have no doubt that that person will NOT go to a higher place after they die. At the very least if they merit it they will have to go back into many many harsh tikkunim (soul corrections) which is no joke, and that is if they have some merits, if not then they could loose it all, forever. It is no joke, either way you loose. The proper way is to follow the ways (Halachot) of G-d, and not use our distorted opinion on matters.

Many Jews have been cremated throughout history, in one way or another. And G-d knows that.
Regardless of everything G-d is the one that judges not mere humans.

 So? Was it because of their choice? or it happened that way? - Its like saying many Jews have eaten non-kosher food in history, the question is was it because they were literally starving and had to or else they would die, or because the doller menu is cheaper then the Kosher food, or they have a desire to eat cheese burgers.

you have gone off topic, the question was about Hilter tattooing Jews, not about what I do.

So do you think that if Jew is put in that situation they can enter heaven?

 I thought that I explained it in the different number of posts (I even said that, its not necessarly a formula type thing).
  My answer again is YES. They are not at fault for getting a number tattoed on them (for now well only deal with the present life, dont want to get it more complicated), or even worse being cremated (if they were). This simply was done by the nazi YSV, agains't them. BUT that is in no way the same as a person choosing on his/her own free will to do these things, expecially cremation.

Do you think a soul can be totally destroyed?

 YES.

[Rubystars]

I don't understand why you guys are being so mean to her. There are a lot of Christians I disagree with but I wouldn't tear them apart in the open forum on a personal level.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Skippy why do you want to be cremated?

As I said most of my family on both sides were cremated in the death camps, and my fathers dying wish was to be cremated as well, to be with his family.

And I want to join them too, I have spent all of my life without them, I don't wish to spend all my afterlife separated from them either.

You're a Jew right? But don't Jews believe that burns the soul?

Yes I am a Jewess, I don't believe your soul can ever be destroyed, even after my fathers death I am still strongly connected to him. At many times of my life I feel he is with me. The soul has to go somewhere. And where ever that is, is where my soul will go too.

Your family is a disgrace to their ancestors who were forcibly exterminated and burnt in The Holocaust. You are acting like The Nazis who destroyed them and their bodies.

Yacov are you quite finished?

You are blessed with a family you know, even tho they have turned their backs on you. Don't hate people that have a support of loving family.

I feel sorry for you Yacov, hopefully one day you will find that piece of happiness that only comes from your family and loved ones.

Peace be with you.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

I don't understand why you guys are being so mean to her. There are a lot of Christians I disagree with but I wouldn't tear them apart in the open forum on a personal level.

Its simple Ruby, they are not capable of understanding or having empathy.

Its called personal agendas getting in the way.

Thats the reason why Chaim is a great leader here, and JTF would be nothing without him.

[MasterWolf1]

I don't understand why you guys are being so mean to her. There are a lot of Christians I disagree with but I wouldn't tear them apart in the open forum on a personal level.

Agreed I wouldn't want to be blamed for something that happen many years ago that I had nothing to do with.

[Ben Ish Chai]

Thats the reason why Chaim is a great leader here, and JTF would be nothing without him.

Again, you ask for sympathy while simultaneously making an exceedingly arrogant comment - like you are above us "crazy" fanatics!  This is why you are being "picked on" and "tormented"...

have you asked Chaim his opinions on Tattoos and cremation?  Does he think it is OK for a jew to ink themselves, to deface their bodies, or to get cremated?  Where is his post in this thread if he think's it's so kosher?

And JTF would be nothing without Chaim?  I agree with you on that one.  But Chaim wouldn't have half the support base he does if it weren't for the real ideologue of this movement, and even Chaim would admit - that is Rabbi Meir Kahane.

Have you read any Kahane?  Have you seen his views of self-hating jews?  have you seen his views on assimilation?   Have you seen his views on living in the diaspora?  Perhaps you should read a little background of WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT before you start telling OTHER that they don't have an idea...

because frankly, i really think you are the one "munsoned" up a creek without a paddle.... it truly seems you are the clueless one with regards to this forum and what the prevailing ideas and beliefs are in a KAHANIST forum.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

There is neither heaven nor hell. Afterlife and underworld are a pagan concept.

By cremating yourself you achieve nothing. Your body is supposed to come back into soil, from which we were made.

Good luck!

[Rubystars]

Thats the reason why Chaim is a great leader here, and JTF would be nothing without him.

Again, you ask for sympathy while simultaneously making an exceedingly arrogant comment - like you are above us "crazy" fanatics!  This is why you are being "picked on" and "tormented"...

Please stop.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Thats the reason why Chaim is a great leader here, and JTF would be nothing without him.

Again, you ask for sympathy while simultaneously making an exceedingly arrogant comment - like you are above us "crazy" fanatics!  This is why you are being "picked on" and "tormented"...

have you asked Chaim his opinions on Tattoos and cremation?  Does he think it is OK for a jew to ink themselves, to deface their bodies, or to get cremated?  Where is his post in this thread if he think's it's so kosher?

And JTF would be nothing without Chaim?  I agree with you on that one.  But Chaim wouldn't have half the support base he does if it weren't for the real ideologue of this movement, and even Chaim would admit - that is Rabbi Meir Kahane.

Have you read any Kahane?  Have you seen his views of self-hating jews?  have you seen his views on assimilation?   Have you seen his views on living in the diaspora?  Perhaps you should read a little background of WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT before you start telling OTHER that they don't have an idea...

because frankly, i really think you are the one "munsoned" up a creek without a paddle.... it truly seems you are the clueless one with regards to this forum and what the prevailing ideas and beliefs are in a KAHANIST forum.

Thats your opinion. One I think is very sad for you, but I am not here to fight with you.

Which part are you not understanding here.

I gave you the choice to PM with any questions you have not done that, but choose to make posts that are false.


Its your choice and franking I am not the one looking like the putz.

[MasterWolf1]

There is just way too many personal attacks going on here.  Come on kiss and make up.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

You are blessed with a family you know, even tho they have turned their backs on you.

What do you know about my family? Why do you think they "turned their backs on me"?

You had stated that along time ago on this forum, when I first joined. I always felt sorry for you.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Rubystars:  "...I don't understand why you guys are being so mean to her..."

Hang around a while, Rubystars, and sooner or later the Taliban will turn on YOU!   

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Skippy why do you want to be cremated?

As I said most of my family on both sides were cremated in the death camps, and my fathers dying wish was to be cremated as well, to be with his family.

And I want to join them too, I have spent all of my life without them, I don't wish to spend all my afterlife separated from them either.

Then you're a self-hating Jew.

Well how nice of you 
Please look up the meaning of that word before you throw it around like that. Stop misusing that word.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

It's not personal.

Yacov I don't believe that for one minute .

I am not the only one with different views, I have not attacked you regarding your views on reincarnation.

Because its a personal view you have. Not that I believe in that.

Buts its your choice to have that view.

I don't mind debating, I do mind being personally attacked.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

You are blessed with a family you know, even tho they have turned their backs on you.

What do you know about my family? Why do you think they "turned their backs on me"?

You had stated that along time ago on this forum, when I first joined. I always felt sorry for you.

I don't know what you are talking about. Maybe I said my dad doesn't approve of JTF but my family didn't "turn their back on me".

Really? Hmm must be another Yacov I am thinking about.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

It's not personal.

Yacov I don't believe that for one minute .

I am not the only one with different views, I have not attacked you regarding your views on reincarnation.

Because its a personal view you have. Not that I believe in that.

Buts its your choice that have that view.

I don't mind debating, I do mind being personally attacked.

I didn't say I believe in reincarnation. I just repeated in a question to Chaim what I was told.

Reincarnation is a belief among some Jewish sources. Burning dead bodies is the worse sin someone can do and should be reserved for disposing of executed Nazis such as Israel burning Eichman. The same should be done with the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi terrorists.

Thats not the issue I was referring to, more of the Moth belief you have.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Yaacov:  "...Burning dead bodies is the worse sin someone can do and should be reserved for disposing of executed Nazis..."

Wait just a minute here!

Last month you told us that the worst sin a Jew could commit was to have sex with a non-Jewish woman!

Your list of "ultimate sins" keeps growing!

[FULL METAL JACKET]

The worse sin is relations with a non-jew, not burning dead bodies.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                   בס''ד

The Rambam (Maimonides) teaches us that תחיית המתים (techiyat hametim - the resurrection of the dead) will be a miracle that HaShem will perform, and therefore it doesn't matter if the body has been buried for thousands of years and has almost completely decomposed or if the German Nazis יש''ו שר''י burned the body completely in the ovens of the death camps. Those who merit being resurrected will be resurrected miraculously regardless of the state of their body.

But sadly I must add that those who knowingly defy G-d's mitzvot (commandments) risk not being part of the resurrection. There are preconditions to earning the right to eternal life, and one of them is obeying G-d's mitzvot. I am not judging anyone and I don't know what G-d will do with Jews who knowingly desecrate and deface their bodies with the pagan ritual of tatooing or who cremate their bodies. But I do know that it is absolutely forbidden to engage in these practices, and that at the very least a Jew who does so is risking losing everything on the day of judgement. Of course, if someone does so out of ignorance, it is not the same as someone who knows better and has been warned.

In Judaism, the body is SACRED. G-d created the body as our tool to fulfill His will in this world. And we must do so the way He commands us to. G-d didn't give us the 10 suggestions or the 10 options, He gave us the 10 COMMANDMENTS. And to the Jew, G-d gave 613 commandments.

fidei, by saying that you will do to your body what Hitler did to the bodies of defenseless Jews is something I cannot comprehend. Are you allowing the Nazi mass murderers to make the rules for you? Hitler sets the standard for what you do to your body? If you really want to defy and defeat Hitler, and if you really want to honor your loved ones, then I think you should do what the Nazis would not want you to do - you should be stubbornly loyal to your Jewish faith and heritage and commandments and show the Nazis that they did not defeat you or break you, and that the sacred Jewish faith which the Nazis detested will gloriously live forever, while the Nazis and all other Jew-hating Amalekites will burn forever in the deepest bowels of hell.

As for your father, he did not realize what he was doing, and so we must pray for his soul. Your father was among תינוקות של בית רבן (the innocents who sin because they did have a full Jewish education). I am sure that your father was a good man, and we love him and we will pray for him. But you can do something now for his soul by correcting this mistaken path and doing what Judaism teaches us to do. And by convincing your mother הי''ו (HaShem should protect her and give her life) to also do what Judaism commands.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                     בס''ד

And we absolutely should not personally attack people who post here. Even if they are mistaken, we should explain what Judaism teaches with love and patience, not with personal attacks.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

It's not personal.

Yacov I don't believe that for one minute .

I am not the only one with different views, I have not attacked you regarding your views on reincarnation.

Because its a personal view you have. Not that I believe in that.

Buts its your choice that have that view.

I don't mind debating, I do mind being personally attacked.

I didn't say I believe in reincarnation. I just repeated in a question to Chaim what I was told.

Reincarnation is a belief among some Jewish sources. Burning dead bodies is the worse sin someone can do and should be reserved for disposing of executed Nazis such as Israel burning Eichman. The same should be done with the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi terrorists.

Thats not the issue I was referring to, more of the Moth belief you have.

That's not my belief. It's just something my family in Israel said after my grandfather died. I thought it was silly of them to say it.

Is not your family Jewish? Or is it ok for them to have a belief different to others?

[Ari]

These personal attacks on not right.  I have heard Chaim say many times that he loves righteous Gentiles and all his fellow Jews, unless they have given him the gravest of reasons not to do so.  Let's be reasonable.  Certain things might be wrong under Halacha and I certainly respect my fellow Jews for pointing this out, but I do not believe every wrong rises to the level of a total abomination, condemning someone to damnation, or preventing him or her from reaching heaven.  For instance, how can you reasonably equate a tattoo with homosexuality or a sin like murder.  JTF has been supported by both secular and religious people through the years, and I am pretty certain Chaim is okay with this.  You can point out that you disagree, but attacks should not be tolerated.  If you really are so concerned that someone is not on the right path, but believe deep down they are a good person, pray for him or her, don't just cast them aside.  

Please note, after this post, I noticed your reply Chaim, and it was eloquently stated as always.  I agree that many times Jews can make decisions because they are simply not aware of the full Jewish laws and have not been educated.  I also agree, once again, that attacks should not be tolerated, and the ultimate judgements will be left to G-d.   

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

It's not personal.

Yacov I don't believe that for one minute .

I am not the only one with different views, I have not attacked you regarding your views on reincarnation.

Because its a personal view you have. Not that I believe in that.

Buts its your choice that have that view.

I don't mind debating, I do mind being personally attacked.

I didn't say I believe in reincarnation. I just repeated in a question to Chaim what I was told.

Reincarnation is a belief among some Jewish sources. Burning dead bodies is the worse sin someone can do and should be reserved for disposing of executed Nazis such as Israel burning Eichman. The same should be done with the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi terrorists.

Thats not the issue I was referring to, more of the Moth belief you have.

That's not my belief. It's just something my family in Israel said after my grandfather died. I thought it was silly of them to say it.

Is not your family Jewish? Or is it ok for them to have a belief different to others?

Yes, they are Jewish. There are sources that talk of reincarnation but Chaim says it's just allegorical.

So your family can do no wrong?

You are treating people unfairly Yacov when you have openly admitted that you accept one thing from one source and than attack on the other.

My whole point to you Yacov, family is important, and we do what is best for them.

[Ari]

                                                                                                                     בס''ד

And we absolutely should not personally attack people who post here. Even if they are mistaken, we should explain what Judaism teaches with love and patience, not with personal attacks.

Perfectly stated.