Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Gogumagog
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Sarah on February 17, 2007, 12:59:42 PM ---I never knew Jews believed in this concept. There is a similar story in islam as well, that near the time of the ending of the world. Two tribes, Ya'juj and Ma'juj- Gog and Magog, will appear from somewhere in china(some scholars believe it is related with the great wall of china and that they will break some barrier). These tribes will cause havoc on earth and there will be a war, yes. There is also a story of the dajaal which will come upon earth too. Does Judaism or the torah mention this story which is basically about an evil man on earth in the near future?
Please, if you don't mind, can you explain the torah version of the ending of the world and its signs.........
--- End quote ---
I realize that you wrote this three and a half months ago.
The irony is too much to bear.
The actual Gog and Magog are found only in the prophecy of Ezekiel in chapter 38 and 39.
The irony that Muhammad heard some stories from Jews or Christians about these two chapters and thought that gogand magog are Chinese is too funny.
While the actual identity of magog is in doubt and people have their theories ranging from Turkey to Russia to America. There is no questions about which counties will join up with GogandMagog.
Let's let Ezekiel name them for you:
Ezekiel Chapter 38
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 2 'Son of man, set thy face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; 4 and I will turn thee about, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed most gorgeously, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords: 5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
Did you hear that last line?
These three nations, Persia, Cush and Put.
Persia is modern day Iran. An Islamic Country.
Cush is a large area that would encompass much of Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia. All three of them are Islamic countries.
Put is Modern day Libya. Another Islamic country.
Don't you see the irony?
Muhammad hears these stories about the evil Gog, Magog and their allies.
He plagiarizes the idea from Ezekiel and through his religion sets up the situation neccessary to bring it about. All the while condemning Juj and Majuj who are destined to lead a group of Islamic countries against Israel in the End of Days. Condemning his own followers and his own religion in the process. All due to the fact that there wouldn't be a Bible in the Arabic language for another two hundred years. If there had been one at the time in Arabic, Muhammad would have plagiarized the stories correctly and we wouldn't have to hear Muslims tell us we "corrupted" the Torah and that's why Muhammad's versions are different. A claim contradicted by the Dead Sea Scrolls for anyone with any knowledge of these matters.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Lubab:
Some of you might be interested to know that the Baal Shem Tov said that due to all of the suffering the Jews have gone through throughout the ages the war of Gog and Magog doesn't need to be fulfilled in the physical sense. We have had enough suffering. He said something along those lines.
ftf:
If Gogumagog did not occur it would be mean that a prophecy has not been fulfilled, it has to happen. WHat I think was the best interpretation of it that I have ever read was on a website that for some reason no longer exists, but it came to a rather well backed conclusion that magog = russia and gog = russians. The fact that russia is aiding iran's nuclear program seams pretty telling to me...
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: ftf on June 05, 2007, 02:40:12 PM ---If Gogumagog did not occur it would be mean that a prophecy has not been fulfilled, it has to happen.
--- End quote ---
YEAH, BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE THAT WORLD WAR 2 WAS GOGANDMAGOG.
Hey, Germany isn't technically Meshech and Tuval.
But neither is Russia and you seem to think they might be Gogand Magog.
--- Quote from: ftf on June 05, 2007, 02:40:12 PM ---WHat I think was the best interpretation of it that I have ever read was on a website that for some reason no longer exists, but it came to a rather well backed conclusion that magog = russia and gog = russians. The fact that russia is aiding iran's nuclear program seams pretty telling to me...
--- End quote ---
Well, if you wish to interpret literally.
Meshekh, Tuval and Magog are all parts of Modern-day Turkey.
So who knows.
I guess we'll find out when it happens.
ftf:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on June 06, 2007, 08:40:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: ftf on June 05, 2007, 02:40:12 PM ---If Gogumagog did not occur it would be mean that a prophecy has not been fulfilled, it has to happen.
--- End quote ---
YEAH, BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE THAT WORLD WAR 2 WAS GOGANDMAGOG.
Hey, Germany isn't technically Meshech and Tuval.
But neither is Russia and you seem to think they might be Gogand Magog.
--- Quote from: ftf on June 05, 2007, 02:40:12 PM ---WHat I think was the best interpretation of it that I have ever read was on a website that for some reason no longer exists, but it came to a rather well backed conclusion that magog = russia and gog = russians. The fact that russia is aiding iran's nuclear program seams pretty telling to me...
--- End quote ---
Well, if you wish to interpret literally.
Meshekh, Tuval and Magog are all parts of Modern-day Turkey.
So who knows.
I guess we'll find out when it happens.
--- End quote ---
I've never heard anyone say that magog is part of turkey.
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