Author Topic: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?  (Read 2256 times)

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« on: February 25, 2008, 03:35:37 AM »
Shalom Chaim,

In the past several weeks, we've been differing over the issue of whether women who wind up with battering monsters have any control or knowledge over their situation. I came across this Yahoo headline tonight, and although it is a secular, pop-culture relationship guru's take on the matter, I think that it does illustrate part of my contention to you: that women, by and large, value machismo and ruggedness, at least initially, over sensitivity and intellect.

I know we will likely always disagree on this issue  :), but please, if you have a moment, read it anyway and comment as you feel led.

http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/datingtips/74753/she-says-vs-he-says-do-girls;_ylc=X3oDMTF1YTBpOTk1BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwX3RvZGF5BHNsawNzaGUtc2F5cy12cy1oZS1zYXlzLWRvLWdpcmxzBHp6A2Fi

G-d bless you,
Chaimfan

Quote from: Yahoo Personals
She Says vs. He Says: Do Girls Really Like Dating Jerks?
 

By Christine Hassler and Jason Ryan Dorsey
Special to Yahoo! Personals
 
Updated: Feb 25, 2008
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SHE SAYS: No, but we think we do. As someone who dated a jerk, whom I now refer to as my "learning experience," I admit to falling under the jerk spell.
Here's how the jerk spell works: we meet the jerk and in some twisted way are seduced by his confidence, charm, and passion. We don't see these as the disguises they are: confidence is really arrogance, charm comes from him being a player, and his passion is being the center of his own universe.

The jerk sniffs out our insecurities and uses them to reel us in with compliments that eventually turn into criticisms. And if we see a red flag, like the time my "learning experience" told me his definition of a relationship was "light, fun and physical," we play mind games with ourselves. We use our normally rational inner voice to convince ourselves that we can tame him or that with the right kind of girlfriend he will lose his jerk armor and transform into a leading man fit for a romantic comedy. Come on ladies, what are we thinking?!
A jerk loves being a jerk -- way more than he loves us. I guess if they've always gotten away with treating people poorly and nobody ever set them straight, why would they change? Besides, a jerk seems to always have an attractive woman on his arm laughing at his mediocre jokes and ignoring his wandering gaze. How? I think it's because deep down every woman wants a challenge or a little danger. It's not really the jerk we like; it's the thrill of the chase, the rush of adrenaline when the jerk's phone number pops up on our cell (which is usually right after last call).
However, it's been my experience that "jerkdom" isn't some phase we can pull a guy out of. Guys only outgrow that phase when life no longer succumbs to their demands. Any woman who has dated a jerk for more than a week knows that it's a hollow relationship that ultimately leaves you disappointed, hurt, and commiserating with your friends.
The only challenge worth overcoming when dating a jerk is to not let him affect or define your self worth. So if there is a jerk out there making your heart go pitter-pat and estrogen is messing with your reasoning, go ahead and let him woo you, but when he asks for your number tell him that you only date guys who prove their value by respecting a woman. If he's a jerk he'll roll his eyes, say you have an attitude and snicker as he leaves. If he sincerely accepts your ground rules, then chances are you should give him at least one date to prove he's relationship material. Although you may not be spellbound at first, the nice guy without all the smooth answers may ultimately fulfill your needs in more meaningful ways.

HE SAYS: As much as I hate to say it, girls love jerks! At least until the jerk stops calling, which is usually right after he gets what he wants. Speaking from the guy's perspective, I've never quite understood what draws sane, attractive, bright women to guys who act like jerks. Maybe it is the thrill of the unexpected. Maybe it is trying to outplay him in his own game. Maybe it is hoping that deep down he is a nice guy and you are going to prove it to your naysayer friends. What I do know is that too many women who could easily be in a healthy relationship instead choose the cliffhanger ending of dating a jerk that walks with a swagger, winks at anything that moves, and always has a one-liner at the ready.

Truth be told, there aren't many nice guys who haven't considered acting like a jerk, especially when they steal your girl (here I speak from experience). However, daydreaming of jerkdom fades as soon as nice guys remember one thing: being a jerk means acting like a jerk all the time. That means causing the mental pain and emotional anguish that drives a girl to phone her friends -- guy friends included -- crying about what the jerk did to her in public on their first date. Even guys bear the brunt of girls who fall head over heels for jerks.
If you're a girl who feels worse about yourself with every jerk you date, I hope you will make a big move towards respecting yourself and go on a date with a nice guy. They may not offer the drama and constant criticism you've come to expect, but they also won't try to hook up with you after dropping off their other girlfriend. And if you are having trouble distinguishing between a jerk and a nice guy, here are three ways to tell:
He's probably a jerk if he tells you to skip desert because your butt already jiggles enough.
He's definitely a jerk if he "guilts" you into doing things that make you feel bad about yourself -- usually starting with the line "If you really cared about me..."
He's absolutely a jerk if he takes you on a date and leaves you the bill, while he leaves with the waitress.

Christine Hassler is a life coach, speaker, and author of "20 Something Manifesto." She is a relationship expert and leads workshops on treating and preventing "Expectation Hangovers." Find her at christinehassler.com

Jason Ryan Dorsey is the "Gen Y Guy." He has delivered 1,800 keynotes at conferences and corporations around the world. You can read the first two chapters of his book, "My Reality Check Bounced!," at JasonDorsey.com.


Offline Hail Columbia

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2008, 08:01:29 PM »
I can see why women are not interested in me, for I am the "nice guy",  I'm too shy.  I don't even use profanity.  Therefore, I get none.


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Offline Scriabin

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2008, 08:11:37 PM »
Women are interested in confident well-groomed men.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2008, 08:49:14 PM »
Quote
Women are interested in confident well-groomed men.

Absolutely.

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2008, 09:42:26 PM »
Scriban most women are, but many women I guess end up getting in relationships with crazy men and for some reason do not leave.  Maybe fear of all things
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Offline Vito

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 11:08:24 PM »
I don't even want to get in this conversation  :-X

Offline Gruzinit

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2008, 11:27:38 PM »
First, Women sometimes make the mistake of associating confidence with arrogance, I know from experience.

Second, batterers don't go after confident, assertive women. They chose women who are weak and easy to manipulate, eventually capitulating to their abuse.

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2008, 11:32:59 PM »
I don't think all women who pursue abusers are necessarily weak-willed worms. I think some "logically" choose super-"macho" men.

Offline Ari

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 12:00:38 AM »
I saw a funny piece on the news a few weeks ago that it is becoming sheek for very attractive women to marry shlubs because they know the guys will be forever indebted to them, and think it will insure a happier marriage.  I've yet to see any concrete evidence of this though to tell you the truth.

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 12:20:39 AM »
I can explain this one easily. I'm going to talk about the extremes to make a point. If you are wise, you will listen...

Usually first, women hook up with whimp boy who has no spine, always says yes, is jealous about everything (which says I don't trust you), is needy, tells his life's problems before she can even talk, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, tries to buy her love, takes her out to the most expensive place in town on the first date, calls her on the phone every single day to check on her, asks her if she likes him (this is SO LAME and NOT confident!), and comes off manipulative and insecure. Whimp boy thinks it's a good idea to tell her every insecurity he's ever had and gets hurt when she doesn't look at him just right. He tells her he loves her on the 1st or 2nd date and she thinks to herself "he doesn't even know me! CREEPY!" After a while, she feels no challenge and feels grossed out. She can't love and respect someone like this. She knows she wants a strong man... she tells him she just wants to be friends. He stalks her for several weeks and grovels and begs her to come back. He thinks that attraction is a choice... it's not. You can't talk a woman into loving you.

So she looks for the opposite and finds macho boy. Macho boy always says no, is also jealous, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, abusive, angry, possessive, needy, sometimes a stalker, and comes off manipulative and insecure. Macho boy's problem stems from the belly of pride and ego. He wants to control her and no one likes being controlled. She can't stand this either... but she thinks to herself... at least he's strong and can protect me, unlike whimp boy.

What women REALLY want is a balance. They want a strong man that says yes when he means it and no when he means it, is POSITIVE, confident, is not jealous, DOESN'T LOSE HIS TEMPER because he's in control of himself, KNOWS HE IS THE PRIZE, is interesting and has hobbies (because his entire universe doesn't revolve around her), let's her do most of the talking (men are supposed to be more quiet, duh) and LISTENS, has a sense of humor, is playful and teases her a little sometimes, affectionate but not needy, makes her feel feminine, and acts like a man. This is common sense - which a lot of men don't seem to have in this day and age. Prince Charming never rode up on the white horse and said "Why do you love me?". The confident man says "I love you" when he proposes... because it means more and she takes this more seriously.

RECAP:
Whimp boy - always says yes (even when it's a lie so she'll like him) and the foundation of his problem is insecurity.
Macho boy - always says no (because no one is gonna rule him!) and the foundation of his problem is insecurity.

The balanced man is the one HEALTHY and SANE women want. While there are always going to be a few crazies... the majority of women want a man with BALANCE. Whimp boy turns their stomach and macho boy breaks their heart. That's NOT what they want.

Some guys are so busy looking to put all the blame on women (because their ego can't take personal responsibility), they can't even see some serious mistakes they make and rob themselves from love and happiness.

The men who can't handle this truth, have ego problems.

Confidence comes from loving yourself... loving yourself can only come from respecting yourself... respecting yourself can only come from doing right. This is real strength and is attractive.

Spend more time in the Torah, practice self control and patience, be thankful for the good things that you have (it's called being positive), take showers and comb your hair, do what G-d says... and you will be the type of man that women want... a STRONG man has self-control instead of trying to control others.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 12:43:03 AM by Shlomo »
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Offline Scriabin

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2008, 12:23:03 AM »
Quote
Women are interested in confident well-groomed men.

Absolutely.

Listen to Lisa.  She knows.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 10:01:19 AM »
Also remember, you can be nice without being a pushover. 

Men don't like desperate women, right?  And I think the same is true for women and "desperate" men.  Let me give you an example. 

I went to a singles Shabbat dinner at a Synagogue on the Upper West Side a few months ago.  I got into a conversation with a young man there.  He asked me where I lived, and I just told him.  So to make a long story short, he offered to walk with me, all the way through Central Park, back to my apartment.  He lived on West Side but he eagerly offered to walk me back home, and this was before dinner was even served. 

Now mind you, I would never walk through Central Park at night, even if I was with someone.  Nor would I do so with some I barely know. 

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 01:48:20 PM »
Lets face it I may be smacked on the head on this but sometimes the truth is the truth.  Many women not all but a good amount want to feel love by all means.  They have to, some men are like this.  And they find someone and the guy (or girl) turns out to be a real jerk.  Maybe heavy drinking, verbal or physical abuse and the woman lives with this every day of her life and wishes to leave but fear especially if their are children its worst.   But let me tell you this, ladies god forbid you get in that kind of relationship. DON'T PUT UP WITH IT, LEAVE.   Trust me when I say I know how a violent home is like. And with children they pick this up and that it shows on them with their behavior.
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Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 05:50:55 PM »
People just be yourself (but fix the flaws) . If another accepts, good if no then their are more fish in the sea.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
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 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

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Offline AsheDina

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2008, 06:00:55 PM »
Scriban most women are, but many women I guess end up getting in relationships with crazy men and for some reason do not leave.  Maybe fear of all things

My sister has done nothing BUT date and marry losers. Here is the thing- My sister comes off strong, very strong, she wants to 'change a man' she has ALWAYS been this way, then the man, wanting just to please her................for a "LITTLE" while, does so.. then the true colors come out- "A leopard cannot change his spots"  I mean this for my sister as well.
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Offline Vito

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Re: Something for Chaim: Do Women Like Dating Jerks?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2008, 06:27:39 PM »
Yes, most women are attracted to jerks. They've been brainwashed to do so by the media imo.

BUT!

Watch this ZT video - this girl makes sense:

"Assertive guys finish first"