Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
magic in Judaisim
takebackourtemple:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on May 01, 2008, 08:15:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on April 30, 2008, 10:08:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: takebackourtemple on April 30, 2008, 07:20:50 PM --- I think that most of the things that magic claims to be able to do can be done, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it. Something like teleportation which is virtually impossible in our environment has been demonstrated at a molecular level. The odds of a person teleporting? Virtually impossible. As small as it is, there is a mathematical probability for a human being being able to teleport or walk through walls or perform all sorts of impossible things.
One thing that I will note is that the universe is very complex, and there are many forces that we just cannot comprehend. To call them magic is one of two things, deception or the failure to understand what is really going on.
In terms of biblical accounts, I believe that what happened really happened and was not slight of hand. When Moshe placed the staff, it was a real staff that turned into a real snake and turned back into a real staff when he picked it back up. I don't know the explanation, but believe that it is possible that hashem rearranged the molecular particles to perform the transformations.
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As far as walking through walls there really isn't a very good scientific reason why we shouldn't be able to do that as when we look closely at matter at the atomic level we find that it is almost entirely empty space!
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the force that holds your molecules together might be a problem!
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You answered it before I could. Crashing into something is electrical reaction. If you run into the wall too fast, you break some of these bonds and splat. I take it that if a particle has enough energy for the bond to be insignificant the particle can pass right through. It would also have to be fast enough that it does not have enough time to intefer with the integrity of the bond.
I actually had tunneling in mind rather than all the free space. Tunneling is the process where a particle does not have enough energy to make it through a barrier, but manages to anyway. Sort of like using only 10 pounds or force to lift a 100 pound weight.
Ben Yehuda:
It is interesting that many things that seem or seemed magical ultimately have an explanation in science, but, then again, how does one explain the presence of science? I imagine it was G-d who created science as the framework upon which the universe works.
Anyway I am no Torah scholar, and please excuse my ignorance in these matters.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: rellikmilsum on May 01, 2008, 09:01:19 AM ---It is interesting that many things that seem or seemed magical ultimately have an explanation in science, but, then again, how does one explain the presence of science? I imagine it was G-d who created science as the framework upon which the universe works.
Anyway I am no Torah scholar, and please excuse my ignorance in these matters.
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G-d creates the universe continuously, and runs the world in a way consistent with what we know as "nature". runs the world according to logical rules.. So that we can plan/operate/work/do/create things, within the world.
I have heard it said that G-d creates the world according to "nature", so as to test us by trying to fool us into thinking that the world runs without him. I don't like that idea though.. and I don't know if it has any basis.. any precedent..
Ben Yehuda:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on May 01, 2008, 10:28:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: rellikmilsum on May 01, 2008, 09:01:19 AM ---It is interesting that many things that seem or seemed magical ultimately have an explanation in science, but, then again, how does one explain the presence of science? I imagine it was G-d who created science as the framework upon which the universe works.
Anyway I am no Torah scholar, and please excuse my ignorance in these matters.
--- End quote ---
G-d creates the universe continuously, and runs the world in a way consistent with what we know as "nature". runs the world according to logical rules.. So that we can plan/operate/work/do/create things, within the world.
I have heard it said that G-d creates the world according to "nature", so as to test us by trying to fool us into thinking that the world runs without him. I don't like that idea though.. and I don't know if it has any basis.. any precedent..
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Thanks for your response.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
G-d created "nature" in order for their to be a certain order in the world. Imagine their being gravity today and tomorrow their is no more gravity. Or also to determine the Halachic day a person was born (if lets say the sun would come up randomly everyday) and to know which is the 8th day in order to have the brit Milah. And many more examples,
And Boere- Splitting the sea for G-d and making the sun come up today in the mouring isn't that much of a difficulty (I need to phrase it better, but you know what I mean). Its not that their is nature and then G-d has to do something "miraculous", but that everything every milli millil (infenito) second runs according to His Will.
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