Poll

Should it be banned?

Yes.
5 (9.1%)
Yes, absolutely.
8 (14.5%)
No.
42 (76.4%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Author Topic: What Do You Think Of Pre-Marital Intimacy And/Or Touching?  (Read 154066 times)

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I think it should in order to protect the people that would otherwise sin.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 11:30:07 AM by Lisa »

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 01:00:24 AM »
I need to be able to shake people's hands. Or if I get handed something by someone, I really don't care if their hand brushes mine.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2008, 01:38:53 AM »
Yacov, I dont think this would be implemented even with a kahanist government in Israel. Chaim said things like this would be hard for Israelis to digest.
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Offline JTFFan

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 02:23:47 AM »
If it means hand shaking that's normal, if it means promiscuous/sexual pre-marital touching, then yes it should be banned.

Offline IslamIsCancer

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 02:32:31 AM »
What is this, Iran?
Yes it should in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
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Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 02:56:41 AM »
Yacov, I dont think this would be implemented even with a kahanist government in Israel. Chaim said things like this would be hard for Israelis to digest.


So what do you think about it? Are you personally against touching women?



Yacov, I am not sure what the rules are according to the torah. Obviously having an intimate relationship outside of marriage is forbidden according to the torah but I am not sure where the line is set. I am not sure exactly what is forbidden as far as regular touching is concerned. I think Chaim said that Rabbi Kahane shook hands with women so I guess touching is permitted. Obviously touching with the intent to commit a sin is wrong.
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Offline Baltimore

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 02:58:16 AM »

So what do you think about it? Are you personally against touching women?



No I am not.  I know that touching women was not the thing that made me have premarital sex.  All of us have natural urges and as long as we are around women we are going to want to have sex with them.  I think values need to be instilled back in to the general population. We have a media/advertising industry that sells everything with sex and sexualizes very young girls.  We have large segments of the population who regard women as female dogs because they do not have fathers to teach them otherwise. 

I would like to add that after all these years I now know that premarital sex is not a good thing but it happens all the time (I am not encouraging it).  A certain aspect of intimacy if forever lost with your future wife.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 03:02:07 AM by Baltimore »

Offline IslamIsCancer

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 03:01:51 AM »
People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, Jews are not backward people they are very civilized they are basically Europeans. This kinda stuff can work in Iran but not in Israel.
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Offline IslamIsCancer

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 03:03:04 AM »
Jews are very intelligent and enlightened people if you try to do something like this there in Israel I don't think they'll be happy.
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Offline Baltimore

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 03:03:55 AM »
People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, 


I agree 100%.  I also think threads like this may freak out outsiders that may have had thoughts of joining JTF.  Oh well.

Offline IslamIsCancer

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 03:07:03 AM »
People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, 


I agree 100%.  I also think threads like this may freak out outsiders that may have had thoughts of joining JTF.  Oh well.
Look Baltimore, JTF should do what the leaders think is right for Israel, I'm just expressing my opinion that if Chaim tries to ban premarital sex in Israel or ban other things that are banned in muslim countries Israelis will revolt.
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Offline Baltimore

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 03:08:57 AM »
People will not support JTF if Chaim tries to ban things like this, 


I agree 100%.  I also think threads like this may freak out outsiders that may have had thoughts of joining JTF.  Oh well.
Look Baltimore, JTF should do what the leaders think is right for Israel, I'm just expressing my opinion that if Chaim tries to ban premarital sex in Israel or ban other things that are banned in muslim countries Israelis will revolt.

I agree with you. I do not think Chaim would try to do things like this.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 03:44:48 AM »
Yacov, threads like this make people think JTF is made up of a bunch of loons like the Satmar or the dog trainer and his movement. You know Chaim would not push for this and that the overwhelming majority of even devout Christians and Jews would never support it.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 04:26:27 AM »
I agree with the notion that this could never work in Israel or any other society where people live freely. Only in a muzzy country could this work or does it belong in. I am not condoning having any sort of pre marital relations, it is obviously not a good thing. We cannot ban things like this though. On the platform of throwing muzzies out and securing Israel, I have no doubt that we will see Chaim being elected. Even Chaim himself said that he will never legislate forcing people to be religious. He will set a good example and will make them want to be religious.
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Offline Ulli

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 05:07:29 AM »
Do you mean touching in an sexual sense or in gerneral?
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 07:48:46 AM »
I think it should in order to protect the people that would otherwise sin.



I don't think banning and making these things laws on the private lives of citizens is a good idea.

It's a matter of choice if one wants to be Shomer Negia.

I make my personal choice to avoid doing certain things which might include kissing a girl a certain way before I marry her because it makes the relationship in the future much better...but that's for me and my future wife to decide...Not Yaacov...nor any  government that feels it needs to control every bit of life of its citizens.  To do that is BOLSHEVISM!!!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 08:02:23 AM by Dr. Dan »
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 07:59:50 AM »
Before people keep on dogging on Yacov's posts I have a few things to say....

1) This is for Jews. No one is saying for it to be banned for Gentiles.So if you're a Gentile don't worry about it.

2) Jewish Men should not touch women and Jewish women should not touch men period!! No if or buts! That's the way things are! Only family can hug (mother-son, sister-brother) hug, shake hands etc... And only a husband and wife can touch when she is not niddah.

This post and the rest are according to RELIGIOUS Judaism!! That's the way things are. No interdancing and no touching. I'm sorry if it bothers people, but that's the way the religious Jewish lifestyle is.
Many MANY religious Jews are against touching the opposite gender (like...CHABAD, Breslov etc..) Opting to not even shake a hand. So this small thread is not the end of the world.
Look at religious Orthodox Jews...when do they touch people of the opposite gender? They don't and they are against it except to save a life.

And it's hypothetical! It's not going to be really be banned, he is just asking about what ethics we should use in our lives!!!! I am sick of every time a thread like this goes up everyone starts dogging on Yacov, acting like this is a serious thread, when it's an opinion poll. 
And before people start saying "but it makes us look bad"...1. Since when do we care. 2. Again this is a HYPOTHETICAL post. 3. Not everyone agrees with everything individual JTFers think. Posts like these are to discuss personal opinions on religious Jewish ethics, so we can agree to disagree. I'm sorry but people act like just because Yacov puts a thread like this, it's going to be the end of the universe. A simple yes or no answer and a polite explanation will do.

1-No one is going to really make it a law

2- No one asked Chaim to make it a law on the forum. I don't know where people got the idea that "Chaim would not approve" NO ONE is asking him to ban "touching"

3-It's not a real thread, it's an OPINION poll.

NO WHERE does Yacov mention how it should become a law in Israel etc. Again it's just an opinion poll!

Please excuse my tone. 
This is my final word on the matter. Again I apologize. In case anyone is upset about my response,I am sorry but I will not discuss it here further. Anyone feel free to contact an Admin or someone about it.
I just had to get it off my chest.

I would never join any movement that wanted to impose anything about my religion down my throat.  If JTF suddenly turned around and did this, I would feel betrayed and withdraw myself from here.

Like I said, I love Judaism.. I love Torah..I love the infinte wisdom of the Rabbis...But I despise it when a religious Jew tells any less religious Jew that everything he/she does is a sin and that they will DIE or NEVER come back in the world to come if they don't become religious like them...

and I will repeat..I respect and look up to those who CHOOSE for themselves to be shomer negia..I really have to hand it to them for following the IDEAL thing...It is a beautiful thing.

And it's not just shomer negia..it's shomer shabbat, shomer kashrut, those who wish to make Aliya to Israel, wear certain clothes, etc..I have a lot of respect for anyone who does that..Please, yaacov, and whomever here is a firebrand Jew, WATCH IT with these banning posts! YOu are in a way saying that people like me will die, GD forbid, if I touch a girl lovingly even if it means kissing her on the cheek...man, if that's the case, I might as well have sex with her, Gd forbid, before I marry her! 

Adam and Eve sinned because Gd only said, "Don't eat from that tree." and then the serpeant tempted them by saying, "Touch it, see? nothing happened."  My point in this is that Judaism isn't a theology that assumes that kissing is equally as bad as sex...The Rabbis were much much smarter than that!  That simply kissing or touching was a thing that can lead to sex in most human beings...but the magic word is "CAN" lead to such things...My respect to those who "CAN" pull that off. 

Chaim would never allow this either...nor woudl any Israeli...any movement in ISrael who attempted to do this would be the laughing stock of the nation. I can assure you of that.  but i have no problem with Chaim's view that he woudl want an ideal Torah abiding nation which might include citizens, themselves, making the choice of being shomer negia, rather than being forced to do so like Yaacov implies.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 08:13:40 AM by Dr. Dan »
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Archie

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 08:32:22 AM »


I think the ''Ban this, and Ban that'' threads should be banned.

They don't accomplish anything (useful).

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 08:40:43 AM »
No, am opposed to it being banned. What one does in their own private home between two consenting adults should be between them.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 09:34:56 AM »
Before people keep on dogging on Yacov's posts I have a few things to say....

1) This is for Jews. No one is saying for it to be banned for Gentiles.So if you're a Gentile don't worry about it.

2) Jewish Men should not touch women and Jewish women should not touch men period!! No if or buts! That's the way things are! Only family can hug (mother-son, sister-brother) hug, shake hands etc... And only a husband and wife can touch when she is not niddah.

This post and the rest are according to RELIGIOUS Judaism!! That's the way things are. No interdancing and no touching. I'm sorry if it bothers people, but that's the way the religious Jewish lifestyle is.
Many MANY religious Jews are against touching the opposite gender (like...CHABAD, Breslov etc..) Opting to not even shake a hand. So this small thread is not the end of the world.
Look at religious Orthodox Jews...when do they touch people of the opposite gender? They don't and they are against it except to save a life.

And it's hypothetical! It's not going to be really be banned, he is just asking about what ethics we should use in our lives!!!! I am sick of every time a thread like this goes up everyone starts dogging on Yacov, acting like this is a serious thread, when it's an opinion poll. 
And before people start saying "but it makes us look bad"...1. Since when do we care. 2. Again this is a HYPOTHETICAL post. 3. Not everyone agrees with everything individual JTFers think. Posts like these are to discuss personal opinions on religious Jewish ethics, so we can agree to disagree. I'm sorry but people act like just because Yacov puts a thread like this, it's going to be the end of the universe. A simple yes or no answer and a polite explanation will do.

1-No one is going to really make it a law

2- No one asked Chaim to make it a law on the forum. I don't know where people got the idea that "Chaim would not approve" NO ONE is asking him to ban "touching"

3-It's not a real thread, it's an OPINION poll.

NO WHERE does Yacov mention how it should become a law in Israel etc. Again it's just an opinion poll!

Please excuse my tone. 
This is my final word on the matter. Again I apologize. In case anyone is upset about my response,I am sorry but I will not discuss it here further. Anyone feel free to contact an Admin or someone about it.
I just had to get it off my chest.
O0
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline mord

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 09:45:55 AM »
A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 09:47:51 AM by mord »
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Offline Nic Brookes

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2008, 10:01:12 AM »
Before people keep on dogging on Yacov's posts I have a few things to say....

1) This is for Jews. No one is saying for it to be banned for Gentiles.So if you're a Gentile don't worry about it.

2) Jewish Men should not touch women and Jewish women should not touch men period!! No if or buts! That's the way things are! Only family can hug (mother-son, sister-brother) hug, shake hands etc... And only a husband and wife can touch when she is not niddah.

This post and the rest are according to RELIGIOUS Judaism!! That's the way things are. No interdancing and no touching. I'm sorry if it bothers people, but that's the way the religious Jewish lifestyle is.
Many MANY religious Jews are against touching the opposite gender (like...CHABAD, Breslov etc..) Opting to not even shake a hand. So this small thread is not the end of the world.
Look at religious Orthodox Jews...when do they touch people of the opposite gender? They don't and they are against it except to save a life.

And it's hypothetical! It's not going to be really be banned, he is just asking about what ethics we should use in our lives!!!! I am sick of every time a thread like this goes up everyone starts dogging on Yacov, acting like this is a serious thread, when it's an opinion poll. 
And before people start saying "but it makes us look bad"...1. Since when do we care. 2. Again this is a HYPOTHETICAL post. 3. Not everyone agrees with everything individual JTFers think. Posts like these are to discuss personal opinions on religious Jewish ethics, so we can agree to disagree. I'm sorry but people act like just because Yacov puts a thread like this, it's going to be the end of the universe. A simple yes or no answer and a polite explanation will do.

1-No one is going to really make it a law

2- No one asked Chaim to make it a law on the forum. I don't know where people got the idea that "Chaim would not approve" NO ONE is asking him to ban "touching"

3-It's not a real thread, it's an OPINION poll.

NO WHERE does Yacov mention how it should become a law in Israel etc. Again it's just an opinion poll!

Please excuse my tone. 
This is my final word on the matter. Again I apologize. In case anyone is upset about my response,I am sorry but I will not discuss it here further. Anyone feel free to contact an Admin or someone about it.
I just had to get it off my chest.

Admins, would it be a good idea to have these threads in a new section of the form, as they are clearly contraversial and having them away from the General Discussion would keep people who dislike them from looking at them?

Offline nessuno

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2008, 10:41:58 AM »
A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.
It is almost impossible to draw someone's blood without touching them.
That kind of touching is different isn't it?

Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline mord

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2008, 10:53:33 AM »
A few weeks ago i went for a medical check up the nurse took a blood test afterwards she put a band aid on.Should i have told her give me that band aid i don'nt want you to touch me she would have thought i was paranoid or insane.
It is almost impossible to draw someone's blood without touching them.
That kind of touching is different isn't it?


I don'nt know what he means by touching
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Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Should male-female pre-marital touching be banned?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2008, 10:54:15 AM »
No, am opposed to it being banned. What one does in their own private home between two consenting adults should be between them.
O0