OK, who can tell me why my thread was locked?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yacov, why did you lock my thread? It was completely relevant, did not contain the slightest bit of innuendo of any sort, and was not even generating any heated arguments. You know full well Chaim agrees with me--remember when, last year, kahaneloyalist brought up this topic to Chaim in Ask JTF (regarding the now-banned troll "German Christ")?

It is completely reasonable to ask that people defending the nation of Germany or minimizing/excusing Nazism be banned on this forum. Why do you not see it this way?

Frustrated,
Chaimfan.

[shimon]

i have to agree with chaimfan i think it is absurd that a kahanist organization is advertizing on german websites, it makes people think we are nazis

[DownwithIslam]

Whether or not we should be advertising on German sites, their was still no reason for the thread to be locked. We cant muzzle people like this or we will be no better than the splinter groups. I really think Chaimfan is bein treated unfairly. Sure the thread he started with the sexual stuff wasn't appropriate but according to the torah, if you sin against g-d and you sincerely repent, you are forgiven. On the other hand, if you sin against your neighbor, you must ask him for mechila or you are not forgiven no matter how much you pray to hashem. Tzvi Ben roshels sin in attacking me and belitling chaimfan is much worse as he must ask both me and chaimfan forgiveness to be forgiven. It is disturbing that Chaimfans action were met with a quick ban while Tzvi Ben roshels evil deed went largely ignored. Chaim even proved my point that Satmar is drek and that tzvi was wrong on that. Lets be fair here.

[DownwithIslam]

I didnt think it was you Yacov. I still think whoever did it made a mistake though.

[Zelhar]

It is completely reasonable to ask that people defending the nation of Germany or minimizing/excusing Nazism be banned on this forum. Why do you not see it this way?

May be we should deal with individual cases when they appear rather than starting a witch hunt?

[DownwithIslam]

I didn't say I am personally against having Germans on the forum if they are really righteous but I am certainly against locking Chaimfans thread. We should be able to speak freely and their is no reason to muzzle people.

[Archie]

It is completely reasonable to ask that people defending the nation of Germany or minimizing/excusing Nazism be banned on this forum. Why do you not see it this way?

May be we should deal with individual cases when they appear rather than starting a witch hunt?

I think it's fair to say that most JTFers don't want anything to do with Germans.

ME, I wish them well,  but I don't want them in my universe.

[DownwithIslam]

It is completely reasonable to ask that people defending the nation of Germany or minimizing/excusing Nazism be banned on this forum. Why do you not see it this way?

May be we should deal with individual cases when they appear rather than starting a witch hunt?

I think it's fair to say that most JTFers don't want anything to do with Germans.

ME, I wish them well,  but I don't want them in my universe.

If their are a few that are truly righteous, then their is no reason not to work with them. I will agree with you though that as a whole, I dont like Germans.

[Zelhar]

I also support freedom of expression hence I don't encourage locking threads. Most JTFers don't want to See Germany becoming part of Dar al-Islam, so give the Germans who come here and support us the benefit of the doubt. I think conversing with them should prove more useful then labeling them all.

[Lewisit]

(because i am the cause for all this fuzz i also raise my voice here)

C.F. We have a problem to deal with here--new members who have signed up here in order to defend the "honor" of Germany and German citizenry.

i didn't do that at all... i didn't honor nor defend germany - all i said was "please don't be prejudice when handeling nowaday germans and give them a chance"

C.F. I am thinking here of one person in particular--Lewisit--who has taken to making every kind of excuse imaginable for modern-day Germans

what did i excuse? any proove? oh wait - there comes the example:

C.F.: "average Germans who have defeated the ghosts of Nazi past are not our enemies" and other such Nazi taqqiyah.

i didn't write that !?

why are you putting words in my mouth?

i wrote "i'm here to connect to people regardless of their nation or faith who are willing to stand up against the new mohammedan-nazis even it's much more dangerous to confront these real threats than fighting the nazi-phantoms of the past that have been defeated & are a part of history" (and the last part is actually a quote from a good jewish friend of mine...)

C.F.: This is completely unacceptable on a Jewish/righteous Gentile forum.

i fear my citicenship may cost me a great chance here...

[Archie]

I also support freedom of expression hence I don't encourage locking threads. Most JTFers don't want to See Germany becoming part of Dar al-Islam, so give the Germans who come here and support us the benefit of the doubt. I think conversing with them should prove more useful then labeling them all.

Anyway, we'll see how things work out once the forum has a couple of dozens of Germans members...

[underthesun]

By the way: you should accuse Poland an its people too.
As you probably know the european borders were changed after WW2. Poland was shifted to the left. Huge parts of Poland belonged to Germany and voted Hitler into power

Now serious:
Can anybody explain me the advantages of bash the german people?
How does this help jtf?
Isn't it more than enough to bash the government, the judges and so on?

On the other hand it seriously damages the pro-israel movement in germany to tell those people that the germans are more evil than other people.
(1.it is false and obvious lies aren't attractive.
2.people that would otherwise start to think for themselves and eventually change and join the movement, are offended right from the start and stay as they are)

And please stop saying that there is no difference between nowadays germany an nazi germany. This is so wrong that nobody who ever set a foot into todays germany can take you serious.

Also requests for boycotts go very bad with germans. Boycotting is no german habit and will therefore most likely be taken personally.
By the way: Requesting boycotts of german products and praising movies in which german pistols are presented is a bit double standard. Isn't it?

Anyone who wants to boycott real nazi-technology should boycott satellites stuff (satelliteTV, gps, US Army), because satellities are shot into space with a modified V2

So wouldn't it be smarter for jtf to simply not attack german citizens?
What would jtf loose?
On the other hand: If jtf bashs germans, it deters supporters for Israel.

[Archie]

Can anybody explain me the advantages of bash the german people?
How does this help jtf?

Can you explain me the advantages of marketing JTF in Germany?

[underthesun]

I forgot to add, that unprovoked praises of germany in the jtf forum also don't help jtf or Israel. Given the attitude of many members, this too shouldn't be done.

[underthesun]

Can you explain me the advantages of marketing JTF in Germany?

Not really.
Given the current expressed attitude in the forum, I think that that marketing is harmful to Israel and should be stopped unless the german-citizen-bashing stops.

The only advantage to jtf directly, that I see is that smart people might join or jews become persuaded to move to Israel.

[MassuhDGoodName]

I thought that the purpose of the advertising was to appeal to the Jews currently living in Germany.

So far the discussion has weighed the pros vs cons of advertising in Deutschland as if no Jews were part of the target audience...

Am I the only one on the forum aware of the fact that there is a large Jewish population in Germany?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Alright, I believe you, Yacov. Whoever locked my Germans thread needs to come clean and admit what they did.

Now, onto the general topic--I never said that all Germans should be banished or condemned. Those who are not Nazis and condemn the Nazi vast majority of their brothers and sisters, like Golden Pheasant, who is a true righteous Gentile, should be encouraged and supported. Lewisit, though, constantly defends modern Germany and argues that most Germans are not Nazis. That is classic Nazi taqqiyah that has no place on JTF and he should be banned this instant.

[Zelhar]

Now serious:
Can anybody explain me the advantages of bash the german people?
How does this help jtf?
Isn't it more than enough to bash the government, the judges and so on?

C.F speaks for himself, JTF is not bashing any nationality.

On the other hand it seriously damages the pro-israel movement in germany to tell those people that the germans are more evil than other people.
(1.it is false and obvious lies aren't attractive.
2.people that would otherwise start to think for themselves and eventually change and join the movement, are offended right from the start and stay as they are)

JTF is not begging for support, we are loyal to our ideology and we welcome righteous people of all nations. Again C.F. speaks only for himself and I speak only for myself. However I can  recall that Chaim's opinion is that most Germans are not truly regretful for their evil deeds, they regret that they lost. If you disagree with that position please try to make your point, tight now this is the prevalent opinion in JTF. We welcome Germans who are truly regretful, we don't beg for support of hypocrites of any nationality.

And please stop saying that there is no difference between nowadays germany an nazi germany. This is so wrong that nobody who ever set a foot into todays germany can take you serious.

I completely agree.

Also requests for boycotts go very bad with germans. Boycotting is no german habit and will therefore most likely be taken personally.
By the way: Requesting boycotts of german products and praising movies in which german pistols are presented is a bit double standard. Isn't it?

I am not sure what boycott you mean. We think that Iran should be boycotted. The German Government opposes this as the rest of the EU. Germany is Iran's biggest trade partner. If it takes a boycott of German products to make them change their mind than personally I'm all for it.

Anyone who wants to boycott real nazi-technology should boycott satellites stuff (satelliteTV, gps, US Army), because satellities are shot into space with a modified V2

This is silly, why boycott knowledge?

So wouldn't it be smarter for jtf to simply not attack german citizens?
What would jtf loose?
On the other hand: If jtf bashs germans, it deters supporters for Israel.

It is not JTF position to attack German citizens. We don't beg for support and we don't take populist stands. You are very welcome to join. There are debates amongst JTFers and that is no problem since we are a group of thinking individuals.

[mord]

Germany is is a Western European Socialist State ,the problem in Germany are those strict hate laws that only benefits moslems.I'm sure in Germany there are a 100,000 pro Israel people out of how many? 70 million why should'nt they post like anyone else.

[Archie]

I'm sure in Germany there are a 100,000 pro Israel people out of how many? 70 million why should'nt they post like anyone else.

Big numbers you put forward here...You have a big heart.

Have you seen the movie ''Schindler's List''?

There's an interesting scene in the movie:

You see Jews that are gathering at a train station. They are told to put their name on their luggage, leave everything there, and board the train. And then train leave without their stuff.

Nobody was yelled at, nobody was beaten up, and yet everybody complied with their enemy. 

Thousands of people fooled just like that!

[underthesun]

JTF is not begging for support, we are loyal to our ideology and we welcome righteous people of all nations. Again C.F. speaks only for himself and I speak only for myself. However I can  recall that Chaim's opinion is that most Germans are not truly regretful for their evil deeds, they regret that they lost. If you disagree with that position please try to make your point, tight now this is the prevalent opinion in JTF. We welcome Germans who are truly regretful, we don't beg for support of hypocrites of any nationality.

When I speak of the pro-israel movement, I don't talk of the potential dozen of new jtf supporters. I mean the million or so passive people who believe that the Jews are defending themselves and the so called "palestinians" are the aggressors. Their number has to grow!

Germans are regretting, but they pay back to the wrong people. Since the socialists took over the media, we constantly hear that the "muslims are the jews of nowadays". It is really sick, that the muslims get the sympathy for the suffering of the jews - although that the qu'ran demands ... things that I better don't write.
Germans are regretting. You have only few people with nation pride. At least in the western part. I actually like it that way. It is the next best thing to a theocracy.

Most germans are actually happy that the nazis lost. Nearly nobody would like to live in a nazi state.

I am not sure what boycott you mean. We think that Iran should be boycotted. The German Government opposes this as the rest of the EU. Germany is Iran's biggest trade partner. If it takes a boycott of German products to make them change their mind than personally I'm all for it.

I read it on the forum. But also Chaim speak in his shows about boycotting german cars and other stuff. I don't think a boycott by the jtf will be noticeable - let alone change the Germany-Iran relations.
I don't like boycotts. I don't want to boycott the USA just because it is the biggest trade partner of Saudi Arabia - is it?
I don't want to boycott the USA when that muslim Obama is elected president.

This is silly, why boycott knowledge?

I agree, but I know people who don't.

There are debates amongst JTFers and that is no problem since we are a group of thinking individuals.

That's what I hoped when I first encountered jtf, but C.F. called quickly for banning someone who was by far not as aggressive as he was - and got a lot more support for this than critics.
I don't think debates about germany will be possible and I don't want to waste my time on arguing with people that just want to believe something - no matter what the facts are.

The versions of history that I've seen here, contradict the original documents that I have seen. And the motivations that are attributed to germans don't survive any psychological examination.
The statement that germans are worse than others because the didn't really turn away from their past isn't even logical. The reference to the bible doesn't tell that. The bible says that they will be punished more - not that they are worse.
Someone is worse today than someone else, exactly when he is worse today then someone else.
And when I look at France or GB: I don't think that the average frensh or britsh are better or more friendly to jews then the germans.

But as I said, some people want to believe that, and I won't spend the time to convince them that they are wrong. I believe that jtf is worth to be supported anyhow.

The only thing I ask for is not to deter the germans from a pro-israelian mindset!
Either by not bashing and not calling for boycotts or by stopping the ads in Germany.

[underthesun]

For germans who read my post:

People like C.F. are or will be defending Jerusalem with a rifle in their hand against vicious terrorists and other despicable enemies.
Does it really matter that some of them personally dislike germans?

[Zelhar]

@underthesun without delving into semantics about the meaning of regret, I think you're right on the point about paying back the wrong people. Surely Germany is committing national suicide by doing so and it is also it is even more harmful to Israel. How can Germany be so intimately connected with Iran - the Nazis of our generation? The most crucial issue that Jews, as well as westerners are facing today is the Irani nuclear program, we must stop it at all cost.

I read it on the forum. But also Chaim speak in his shows about boycotting german cars and other stuff.

I think that it is his personal choice as a concerned Jew to avoid German products I don't think we have a policy in that issue. The issue is Iran and righteous Germans must pressure their government to severe its economical ties to Iran. I really wonder what is do the pro-Israel passive people you mention think that their country should do.

Why wont you post a question about your concerns in the ask JTF?

[underthesun]

The issue is Iran and righteous Germans must pressure their government to severe its economical ties to Iran. I really wonder what is do the pro-Israel passive people you mention think that their country should do.

Difficult to say. Ranges from praying to urging US or Israel to attack Iran.
But most of the germans accepted the sanctions of Iran we had in recent years.
But secretly the buisiness relationships have risen again to normal levels. The media is not reporting about this. I have read an english article a while ago that the left wing pro-russian part of our government heads is against the sanctions while the other half is in favor.

I personally don't want a nuclear Iran. There are even more problems:
A muslim arab Obama as president of the US and a change in government in nuclear pakistan.
Time comes to an end ...

Why wont you post a question about your concerns in the ask JTF?

I exactly don't want that much attention on this topic.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This is a pro-Jewish rights and pro-western civilization movement.  Any righteous gentiles can join if they believe in the message.  We have some ex Muslims, we have some christian, catholic, all kinds of people.  Even if someone is in Germany, which is majority "anti Israel" country, why can't he also join if he himself is righteous?  This will give him the opportunity to do good deeds and express his own view even if not shared by majority of Germans.   We invite any righteous person, and we especially benefit from showing our face to some European venues where they think all Jews are pro-Muslim or anti civilization wimps like the phony leaders of the jewish establishment present themselves as.