But whatever, just becuase one believes in this or that, does not automatically make one wicked, but I (and also Rabbi's, and Hashem of-course) wont call someone "rightious" - or Tzaddik in Hebrew, because it also is a form of flattery, which is very bad and also it in a way legitimizes people who might not be doin gthe right thing right now (but one not being righteous doesn't automatically mean that we should curse them, or that we have a right to automatically call one wicked.
But by the real standards their are really very few people who are technically Tzaddikim. But also their are levels. For example Jews in comparison to other nations are considered righteous. But I guess their are levels, soo we all are just seeing a different picture from different perspectives.
Righteous is a mistranslation of tzaddik then.
Righteous just means moral. Nothing to do with G-d
As I showed in another thread from those 2 dictionaries. oxford, and cambridge. oxford being the big authority.
maybe translate it as "man of G-d" , or maybe, maybe, "religiously righteous".
The baba sali was described as a man of G-d, a tzaddik would prob mean the same thing. He was a tzaddik.
that's where i disagree..I belive that true righteousness inately has something do with Gd. But Gd doesn't have to be included into religion necessarily, in my opinion.
If you mean that being a Noahide, as not being a religion, or that "Judaism is not a religion, but a way of life" then I agree, if not then one can G-d forbid loose out on his Mitzvot and be left with nothing, because then G-d will show him that he wasn't doing it for G-d, but because of many other things- for example feelings, conscious, to impress others, etc.
What is also connected to this discussion is that G-d tested the Avot specifically with a trait that is not associated with them. For example Avraham was a man of Hessed (kindness), even though he did Kindness all of his life, G-d told him to kill his son, even though everyone would agree that that act looks like cruelty and not kindness. When did Avraham merit, and prove that his Kindness was the right Kindness because that's what G-d wants and not his feelings (and also earn the title), when he was ready to sacrifice his son and do something cruel, because thats what G-d wanted at that time and place.
Same thing with Yakov who has the reputation of being honest. G-d tells him to say that he is Esav, and it is a lie, but he still does it because that's what has to be done, and its G-d's order and not only human logic.
I agree wtih you Tzvi...Sometimes being part of a righteous organized religion will help people be more of a community and fmaily with one another and also help them have a set of theological rules to follow. One can say that it's not enough to just believe in Gd, but to also do acts of loving kindness etc. I do not deny that. But Tzvi, one needs to start from somewhere. The first commandment it is written, "I am the Lord your Gd who has taken you out of the land of Egypt......." Why would that be the very first commandment? To start out saying what's first is first..."I am Gd and there is only One of Me. If you get that, then you'll be able to understand the rest once it sinks in."
In Islam is Cancer's case, in my opinion, it starts with realizing Gd exists..and then the rest will follow...
, im sorry but I am getting confused, or you dont understand me. I never said to anyone, nor have I suggested that islamiscancer or anyone join a set religion, infact what you wrote kinda is what I was saying. (In fact if you want to know the truth from the Jewish perspective, it is probably best that gentiles do not- and following the 7 laws of Noah is not really a religion, its just following the 7 laws).
You are just proving my point that one needs to believe in G-d, I don't see how we are arguing? Unless you thought that I was implying that a non-Jew has to join a religious group, of which I would never encourage. Or unless you are referring about Jews having to have to keep Mitzvot like Shabbat , etc.
Tzvi, we are agreeing with each other...
With Islam is Cancer..in my opinion, since no religion is in his heart and he thinks that Gd doesn't exist, he wants to do what is right. I am saying that the reason why he wants to do is right is because he knows Gd does exist, but doesn't want to admit to it..or simply doesn't realize it that he knows that Gd exists.
From that, I said that all one needs to start, if they have nothing else, to know and realize Gd exists. Someone doesn't need to join a religion also. If they believe in Gd, then it's a start..the rest follows.
Now, it is good to join a righteous religion. From a Jewish point of view, Jews shoudl join Judaism. Non Jews shoudl join Noahidism..but that's a Jewish theological way of looking at religion. Being part of a
righteous religion has many more beneifts than just walking around and believing in Gd and trying to do the right thing on a personal level. And from a Jewish persepective that righteous religion woudl be Judaism for a Jew and Noahidism for a non-Jew.
And we agree on that, Tzvi.
But with Islam is Cancer, it's too much to go in his face and say, "Become a Noahide, or else!" Rather, in my opinion, I would rather say (and mean it when i say), "I like you, Islam is Cancer. I love what you do here. You are great person and a great friend. I think you are wrong in believing that Gd doesn't exist. However, since it is a very emotional topic for you, I will leave it at that. When you want to talk about it with me (us) one day, I woudl love to have a deep conversation with you about what's in our hearts and in yours."
btw..none of this is Lashon Hara...this post is for you too, Islam is Cancer.
Topic: Questions about Zionism and righteousness (Read 9058 times)