What do you guys think about Kabbala?

[GodGunsAndGlory]

I've heard of the few celebrities following it and most celebrities are communist and immoral people, so what do you guys think about Kabbala?

[Americanhero1]

what is the meaning of the red string around there wrist?

[AsheDina]

HI GGG- Where have you been? Sorry- <off subject>- GGG, there is a forum here- that is for America, I know you from paltalk, I cant tell you my name right here- because we have a jerk right now- but we NEED to build that section of the forum. I have been invited to a locked room, (I think its locked) by invite.. It is ALL RET. Military High Ranking Officers (Colonels, Brigadeers, FIST, etc..), that are also really SMART- I have been bringing up JTF to them 3 times now. It is hard to stay in that room for many people, because these men are professionals at tearing people apart just to see if they have the "Right Stuff" You know FIGHTERS. So, send me an IM HERE, and I will invite you when you are on paltalk- but PLEASE dont say my chat- name here- ty.

As for me, I read just the Word of G-d, BTW.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

what is the meaning of the red string around there wrist?

I have heard that there is no real meaning to this, or that it is uncertain and has become a fad.  But some fake kabbalists spread it to madonna types.  I don't think it's real kabbalah.

[Rubystars]

I've always thought it was an interesting subject but I'm pretty sure Madonna doesn't have a clue. lol

[Dr. Dan]

Kabbalah is only for married men over the age of 40 who are torah and talmud scholars and who have at least one child.

If you are not one of those, there is a very strong liklihood you will misuse and misunderstand what the kabbalah is saying. I personally avoid partaking in any learning experience in the kabbalah because i'm none of the above. It's somethign that should have never been commercialized.

[Dr. Dan]

At one time in history, I believe there were "secret" teachings about the Torah that were only taught to a certain type of qualified people.  But I don't think that any of these teachings have survived to be taught to your average person to this day.  Nowadays kabbalah is not those same teachings, it is just pagan-influenced nonsense that has been extrapolated back and that only claims to be the original teachings.  You can see this by the way modern kabbalah lines up perfectly with principles of pantheism, astrology, gnosticism, new age, etc.

yup! rightoe!

kabbalah was never meant to be exposed like this...such beautiful works that now look cheap and idolatrous to a certain degree...

[Zelhar]

The Kabbala institute of 'rabi' Israel Berg is yet another new age nonsense, he is exploiting people for the money but I don't know if Madona is part of the hoax or a victim of it.

The real Kabbala is secrete theory, it can't be properly understood without sufficient knowledge of the Torah.

[Ulli]

The Kabbala institute of 'rabi' Israel Berg is yet another new age nonsense, he is exploiting people for the money but I don't know if Madona is part of the hoax or a victim of it.

The real Kabbala is secrete theory, it can't be properly understood without sufficient knowledge of the Torah.

I don't think that the members of this cult have the nerve to learn the Torah in depth. Even without comments this takes a long time.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Let's be clear here.   Not all kabbalah is nonsense.   There is real kabbalah and there is fake/'marketed' kabbalah that teach it to goyim and take the torah and mitzvot out of it.   But kabbalah, the real kind, is very much a part of Jewish tradition.   In academic circles the origins of the zohar came under scrutiny or dispute, but elements of it are certainly representative of an older tradition, whether exactly a manuscript reauthored later or not, and that is a very complicated issue that cannot simply be summed up on a forum like this.  It would take someone extensive researching to come to a conclusion, and even then, it would not be one way or the other black and white.   

But in the traditionalist/religious circles, kabbalah is certainly a component of Jewish thought and has a big influence on the Torah world.  But any time kabbalah is used without Torah and mitzvot as the basis or to replace Torah, mitzvot, halacha, etc, then it is not truly kabbalah and not legitimate.  Also, anyone claiming these days to do "practical kabbalah" is most surely lying, and this is also forbidden as far as I know.   I think the red wristband might fall under this category of scams.   For ashkenazi Jews, kabbalah is not studied until age 40 and with a significant knowledge in Torah first.   Even for sephardim where this age limit does not apply, one should not delve deeply into kabbalah without a strong background in the basics in Torah. 

Some around here have a habit of trampling on kabbalah, and I would say this is deeply misguided.

[q_q_]

At one time in history, I believe there were "secret" teachings about the Torah that were only taught to a certain type of qualified people.  But I don't think that any of these teachings have survived to be taught to your average person to this day.  Nowadays kabbalah is not those same teachings, it is just pagan-influenced nonsense that has been extrapolated back and that only claims to be the original teachings.  You can see this by the way modern kabbalah lines up perfectly with principles of pantheism, astrology, gnosticism, new age, etc.

yup! rightoe!

kabbalah was never meant to be exposed like this...such beautiful works that now look cheap and idolatrous to a certain degree...

you are an ignoramous,  and dan ben noah knows that what he is saying is not the mainstream orthodox position. His statements on kabbalah have no basis. So don't fall for them..   There are many threads he has been in where we have argued that with him.  His statements on kabbalah are controversial and without foundation.

See Yaakov's post.  Incase you missed it  IT'S THE FIRST POST IN THE THREAD


Madonna, and the Kabbalah Center, are are not kabbalists.  It's a big money making scam. I even read something about them selling holy water for huge amounts of money.
They wrap self-help stuff with a few words from kabbalah, and invent their own mystical ideas to get peoples' imaginations going. And interest people, and they sell it.


Real kabbalists are certain great rabbis who people visit. And they don't charge..

[q_q_]

now.. there is an entirely valid school of thought within judaism that rejects all kabbalah, meaning rejects traditional kabbalah..  Rejects the kabbalah of the RAMBAN, and Arizal e.t.c. and of many great rabbis.. Only accepts what is in the talmud.  Which mentions one or two mystical concepts that were handed down and long since forgotton.

But that is nothing to do with the Kabbalah Center and Madonna.   

Even one who rejects all kabbalah post talmud, should not conflate the two. Some conflate them intentionally - in order to do anything to mock authentic kabbalah - by nook or crook. There aren't many such people.. Most jews accept the kabbalists as legit. Dan Ben Noah is a noachide, but still unusual in this respect. He does do it intentionally.

Others conflate the 2 out of ignorance - thinking kabbalah center = authentic kabbalah = kind of different religion to judaism. And they see rabbis criticising the kabbalah center and think they criticise kabbalah. And they get confused.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

[takebackourtemple]

There is a difference between following Jewish teachings and using them irresponsibly for your own purposes. Madonna is only using them for herself.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Someone who reads it and thoroughly understands it ... has got serious problems.

Supposedly it is the encoded "archane" wisdom in the Torah.

Only Torah scholars of life-long devotion to Torah study, who are married with family, are supposed to approach it.

As for the current Kabbala "fad" followed by Madonna, et al, it's not Kabbala at all; just a mishmosh of metaphysics taught by charlatons posing as "holy men" to make money off of fools.

[Dr. Dan]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...what is the meaning of the red string around there wrist?"

It's so you can fart whenever someone pulls on it.   

[mord]

No when you go to kevar Rachel many people take a string  from covering  which is red i don'nt know the meaning but perhaps to ward off the ayin ha'rah.Berg gives them fake red string

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sephardim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sephardim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sefaradim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sefaradim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

 drDan is Persian, anyway I know many Askenazim who study Kabbalah including big Rabbis. I was just listining to this Russian Rabbi (white Russian) who spoke about this and also asked why do people who do not study Kabbalah say not to study it when they dont understand anything about it. Also what about the Askenazim who are Hassidim? they all study Kabbalah, just open up any book by a Rebbe (for example Likutei Moharan by Rabbi Nachman ZTL Mi Breslev.)

[q_q_]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sefaradim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sefaradim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

 drDan is Persian, anyway I know many Askenazim who study Kabbalah including big Rabbis. I was just listining to this Russian Rabbi (white Russian) who spoke about this and also asked why do people who do not study Kabbalah say not to study it when they dont understand anything about it. Also what about the Askenazim who are Hassidim? they all study Kabbalah, just open up any book by a Rebbe (for example Likutei Moharan by Rabbi Nachman ZTL Mi Breslev.)

chassidim are an exception amongst ashkenazim.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sefaradim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sefaradim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

 drDan is Persian, anyway I know many Askenazim who study Kabbalah including big Rabbis. I was just listining to this Russian Rabbi (white Russian) who spoke about this and also asked why do people who do not study Kabbalah say not to study it when they dont understand anything about it. Also what about the Askenazim who are Hassidim? they all study Kabbalah, just open up any book by a Rebbe (for example Likutei Moharan by Rabbi Nachman ZTL Mi Breslev.)

chassidim are an exception amongst ashkenazim.

 What about many of the Russian Rabbis I heard who mention the Zohar and parts of the Kabbalah. Also Rabbi Wallerstein mentions lessons from Kabbalah (he is 100% Askenaz , I think Meir Yeshiva Orthodox). Also Rabbi Kahane and his son Rabbi B Kahane mention lessons from Zohar (but a little in comparison)

[Dr. Dan]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sefaradim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sefaradim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

Correction: I'm sefardic actually.

[Dr. Dan]

http://www.truekabbalah.org/kabbalah/introduction_kabbalah.htm

 This article says what Kabbalah is and the different levels in Kabbalah. To say that a Jew should not study Kabbalah is wrong and comes a lot from ignorance or hearing half true statements about Kabbalah. The truth is that real Kabbalah is very much part of Judaism and a Jew should not turn away from learning some of it at least. In many lectures Rabbis many times incorporate teachings from Kabbalah as they do soo from Midrash, halacha, Gemmarah etc.
 And to DanbenNoah and any other gentile- if it is not part of your religion then stay out of it (I know you are going to say you believe in Judaism, but are a noahide, but still the Torah is not yours to be discussing in that you agree or disagree and even more soo to make arguments. That would also probably go for completly secular/ignorant Jews who dont read and follow the Torah).

Not every Jew can grasp kabbalah...it is meant for the Torah and Talmudic scholar..and with a man who is married with kids...Am I saying anything wrong?

 Yes. You can definitly grasp some of it. About married with children that is the higher parts of Kabbalah (did you read the short article I posted?) Anway go on that site and see just a few lines on the different essays and see if you can understand it or not.

Tzvi, there is different law for Ashkenazim and Sefaradim.  I'm pretty sure Dan is an Ashkenazi Jew, as I am, and the laws regarding kabbalah are clear for us.   You are into it, that's great, but if it's not right for us, you should not be pushing it on us just because it is very good and Sefaradim study it freely and most love it, etc...   We have our obligations.  One is to become an expert in Torah before delving into kabbalah, and as far as I know, an Ashkenazi man must be 40 with wife and children.

 drDan is Persian, anyway I know many Askenazim who study Kabbalah including big Rabbis. I was just listining to this Russian Rabbi (white Russian) who spoke about this and also asked why do people who do not study Kabbalah say not to study it when they dont understand anything about it. Also what about the Askenazim who are Hassidim? they all study Kabbalah, just open up any book by a Rebbe (for example Likutei Moharan by Rabbi Nachman ZTL Mi Breslev.)

I'm saying that I don't pursue kabbalah because it is too magnificent to understand and grasp...It's not for everyone. It's too deep too powerful...i choose to stay away from something like that because it might lead me to misunderstand what a certain message is saying.