Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Breakdown of the Halakhic System - Two Earth-Shattering Shiurim - Exclusive
Lubab:
All you need to think about is this: kindness and severity. Which one is truth? When you figure out how to answer that properly this discussion will be over.
q_q_:
There is also no logic in saying that whenever 2 rabbis disagree.
one is being strict, one is being lenient, and both are right.
It may be the case with hillel and shammai, that one was generally strict, and the other severe, and there is a (an aggadic I guess) tradition that shammai's is for the next world.
That would not apply to every disagreement. Sometimes 2 interpretations cannot be true simultaneously.
Like, were Hagar and Keturah the same woman or not. (this is not a discussion between hillel and shammai . But 2 different midrashim. And different rabbis hold differently. Rashi says same. others say different )
The ideas you are expressing are generalising an example - the example of hillel and shammai - to ridiculous levels.. IGnore the fact that it's Hillel, ignore the fact that it's Shammai, apply it to every rabbi that disagrees. Take the tradition that Hillel is true in this world and the Shammai in the next world, and forget about the world bit. Just say every rabbi's position is true.
It's just nonsense.
And the idea that every opinions is equally valid is just relativism.. no different from the more modern relativism that all religions are equally true. Or that morality is relative and no one culture is better than another.
Funnily enough.
When I argued with somebody about hagar and keturah, and he said that all opinions are true .. (most charedim just stop there, with some passage from gemara that they claim says all opinions are true). He then justified himself by saying that in quantum physics, they could both be true, in 2 different universes. For example a cat can be dead and alive at the same time. I think he probably misunderstand quantum physics, or was afraid to admit that he couldn't answer the question, but really his answer takes the mick. And I don't think quantum physics was what the authors of the gemara had in mind or what they meant.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 29, 2008, 02:29:57 AM ---There is also no logic in saying that whenever 2 rabbis disagree.
one is being strict, one is being lenient, and both are right.
It may be the case with hillel and shammai, that one was generally strict, and the other severe, and there is a (an aggadic I guess) tradition that shammai's is for the next world.
That would not apply to every disagreement. Sometimes 2 interpretations cannot be true simultaneously.
Like, were Hagar and Keturah the same woman or not.
The ideas you are expressing are generalising an example - the example of hillel and shammai - to ridiculous levels.. IGnore the fact that it's Hillel, ignore the fact that it's Shammai, apply it to every rabbi that disagrees. Take the tradition that Hillel is true in this world and the Shammai in the next world, and forget about the world bit. Just say every rabbi's position is true.
It's just nonsense.
And the idea that every opinions is equally valid is just relativism.. no different from the more modern relativism that all religions are equally true. Or that morality is relative and no one culture is better than another.
Funnily enough.
When I argued with somebody about hagar and keturah, and he said that all opinions are true .. (most charedim just stop there, with some passage from gemara that they claim says all opinions are true). He then justified himself by saying that in quantum physics, they could both be true, in 2 different universes. For example a cat can be dead and alive at the same time. I think he probably misunderstand quantum physics, or was afraid to admit that he couldn't answer the question, but really his answer takes the mick. And I don't think quantum physics was what the authors of the gemara had in mind or what they meant.
--- End quote ---
You keep saying "every Rabbi". I don't mean "every Rabbi". I mean a Rabbi who has used the 13 principles properly to derive his view.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 29, 2008, 02:31:57 AM ---You keep saying "every Rabbi". I don't mean "every Rabbi". I mean a Rabbi who has used the 13 principles properly to derive his view.
--- End quote ---
But this is not relevant here.
There is no case here of a rabbi using the 13 principles.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 29, 2008, 02:19:16 AM ---The folly in this Rabbis perspective
--- End quote ---
which rabbi? which perspective?
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 29, 2008, 02:19:16 AM ---is nicely demonstrated when he is quoted from the softmore at YC.
--- End quote ---
no idea what you are referring to.
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