Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Breakdown of the Halakhic System - Two Earth-Shattering Shiurim - Exclusive
q_q_:
You might say that rashi when quoting the midrash didn't know
they had reincarnated missions.
And that neither did the RAMBAN.. or even the arizal.
But then you have no basis for putting them in a list of people that had reincarnated missions.
It is just as made up as judea's. Infact, I made it up as an example of a made up explanation with no basis. And you went ahead and used it!
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:33:53 PM ---The arizal claimed to have been taught by heavenly teachers, that's how he compiled such a list in shir hagilgulim.
You are not. So you can't justify adding hagar and keturah to the list.
And you certainly can't then claim that rashi was saying this. You can't even claim that the arizal was saying this.
--- End quote ---
I'm simply giving you one possible explanation so you can see how seemingly contradictary opinons can both be valid upon further reflection.
There are many other possible explanations. I've given you one.
I don't know why you assume the Arizal's list is exhaustive, and I'm not sure why you're so sure they're not even in the list: have you learned the entire sefer?
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:35:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:31:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:22:06 PM ---Read what I just wrote above your post about Pinchas and Eliyahu and you'll see a good example of what I'm talking about.
--- End quote ---
you made up that it's a reincarnation. (of mission. Like the reincarnations (of mission you say) that the arizal describes in shir hagilgulim).
But hte arizal lists them and doesn't list hagar and keturah as being that situation.
You have invented your own idea that G-d sent keturah the mission of Hagar. Do you have ruach hakodesh?
And saying it's like those spoken of in the arizal. I guess you think the arizal missed it out.
Anyhow, Rashi did not mention anything of the sort.
You are clearly reading into rashi a completely different thing to what Rashi was saying.
He said ZOH HAGAR. This is hagar.
you're saying.. Well, actually rashi is saying it's not hagar, but it's somebody with the same mission as hagar..
That is not what rashi said.
--- End quote ---
No offense, but if you were a poetry student I would have failed you a long time ago because you don't seem able to understand that the written word the way you understand it is not always the only meaning it can possibly have.
Your question goes to the heart of how we define who a person really is: by their actions, or by their given name.
So the sages can say "this person is that person" and be referring to their actions or their mission and not their physical body.
Do you understand that?
--- End quote ---
Rashi was not writing poetry!!!!!
how many other ridiculous things could you read into any of rashi's commentary, with that absurd idea.
How about the RAMBAM in mishneh torah. My bet is that you will not say "I deny that the RAMBAM wrote poetry" or "I deny that any of the RAMBAM's own words are poetic". You probably Believe that hte wrote poetry in the mishneh torah, and that his own words were poetic.
Lubab:
What do you think it even means he was "taught by heavenly teachers"? Do you know what that means?
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:38:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:35:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on June 30, 2008, 07:31:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on June 30, 2008, 07:22:06 PM ---Read what I just wrote above your post about Pinchas and Eliyahu and you'll see a good example of what I'm talking about.
--- End quote ---
you made up that it's a reincarnation. (of mission. Like the reincarnations (of mission you say) that the arizal describes in shir hagilgulim).
But hte arizal lists them and doesn't list hagar and keturah as being that situation.
You have invented your own idea that G-d sent keturah the mission of Hagar. Do you have ruach hakodesh?
And saying it's like those spoken of in the arizal. I guess you think the arizal missed it out.
Anyhow, Rashi did not mention anything of the sort.
You are clearly reading into rashi a completely different thing to what Rashi was saying.
He said ZOH HAGAR. This is hagar.
you're saying.. Well, actually rashi is saying it's not hagar, but it's somebody with the same mission as hagar..
That is not what rashi said.
--- End quote ---
No offense, but if you were a poetry student I would have failed you a long time ago because you don't seem able to understand that the written word the way you understand it is not always the only meaning it can possibly have.
Your question goes to the heart of how we define who a person really is: by their actions, or by their given name.
So the sages can say "this person is that person" and be referring to their actions or their mission and not their physical body.
Do you understand that?
--- End quote ---
Rashi was not writing poetry!!!!!
how many other ridiculous things could you read into any of rashi's commentary, with that absurd idea.
How about the RAMBAM in mishneh torah. My bet is that you will not say "I deny that the RAMBAM wrote poetry" or "I deny that any of the RAMBAM's own words are poetic". You probably Believe that hte wrote poetry in the mishneh torah, and that his own words were poetic.
--- End quote ---
G-d forbid. The Torah is much deeper than poetry and has many more layers of meaning than any poetry could ever dream of having. But maybe if you practice on poetry be able to see how one thing can have more than one explanation and then you'll be ready for the big time.
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