My post in Ask JTF #48 criticized Dovid and Chaim for insulting American Men

[adam613]

This is what CJD wrote on comment #49 2nd to last on my comment #48 and you can go to Ask JTF Jan. 7th or the bottom of this post to see this post.
>This is not the place for a forum member to respond however  adam613 I really think you were not following the point that  Chaim and David were making. Nothing in the least was insulting to men in that show. I really think you are reading something into Chaim's and Davids position that isn't there.

It wasn't insulting. It was insulting to me. I am an American male under 35. I do understand the bigger point that Christian and Jewish women are not like Muslim women. But that doesn't excuse bashing men. Is this the way you praise women. By bashing men? By saying American men until 35 are immature. And women are better then men in all area's. It was unacceptable what was said. I understand the context. The talk show hosts I listen to on the radio don't talk like that. They aren't afraid to criticize women sometimes. Why is JTF so afraid to EVER criticize women as a group? And praise women by bashing men. The talk show hosts I listen to don't say all men are immature until 35 and the women are better then the men in all area's. They do sometimes criticize women as a group and also sometimes criticize men as a group when appropriate. Why should I support JTF? It is run by immature men. That is what Chaim said. I should support a women organization that supports Israel. Since they are more mature. That is what Chaim and Dovid are saying basically. They want my support and then they bash me.

 STOP DRINKING THE COOLAID CJD. There are many good point to the Kahanist movement but like anybody else they are not perfect. It is Idol worship to worship one or two people as all knowing and all seeing. 

I wrote on JTF as Follows:

>I listened to Take Back America and was very offended by the segment in the 6-8 minute area. First of all, you claim that only women civilize men. Well, Chaim, to be very fair, your father is no longer alive and you have no brothers. And when other men criticize you you don't trust them as much which, again, I don't 100% blame you. It's normal to trust family more then other people and this movement has had bad people who seemed good. But don't blame men because in your close family you only have women alive and you don't have a male family member to give you feedback. I think what you are saying is an insult to your late father who you have said taught you a lot.  Didn't he, Chaim? I hope JTF doesn't only care about Jewish and Christian women but couldn't care less about Jewish and Christian men. And anyway the women will be forced to convert Islam if they aren't killed my Muslims if we weaken and insult Christian and Jewish men for no reason. 

What David did afterwards was even more disgusting. To say American Men aren't mature until 35 is a slap in the face to me. I am an American man under 35 and so are some people I know. I don't think they all are immature. Then to say that women are better then men in ALL area's. To say this when AMERICAN MEN are under so much attack in America in so many ways is just beyond disgusting. Almost all inventions have been made by men.  Without white men we would be just as backwards technology wise and science wise as Africa is.

 Feminism while it isn't the only problem is a serious threat to America. I wonder on whose side David is when he says what he said. Young American boys are being put on Ritalin because of teachers intolerance towards boys. There are government programs that help girls in math and science. Yet, there are no government programs to help boys in reading and writing and teachers that have tried to help boys were stopped from doing so. The public schools teach girls that they have historically been oppressed which maybe you believe. I don't. Assault was always considered a crime from everything I've read. As a result boys are falling further and further behind in American school. College now is 58% women. It was about 50-50 in the 80's. Many white women have divorced their white husbands and collect Alimony and Child support from these white men when they only reason they are divorced in the first place is because of irreconcilable differences due to no fault divorce laws. Many children are growing up without fathers when the FATHER wants to be part of the child's life but isn't allowed to and has to be extortion kinds of money to be even a small  part if any of the child's life. In addition to the fact that the child support is many times more then necessary and forces the man into low income status. Some who really are broke are thrown into jail even though the constitution is against DEBTOR'S PRISON. Some mothers will use the crazy domestic abuse laws that were passed under Clinton to say the father abused her if they try to get even a fraction of time with their children.  Yet, David and you  instead bashes young men without any facts or basis for this. And praise Jewish women without any basis as to why.  If you want to say what you are saying and give all the credit to the women in reality according to your logic the women are horrible because the Jewish people are so self hating and crazy .

[adam613]

I just wanted to add the REAL TORAH doesn't advocate wimpy behavior like this when dealing with Jewish women. Mordechai told Esther that she had to risk her life and if she did not her family and her father's house would perish and the savior of the Jewish people would come from another source. See Esther Chapter 4:Verses 12-17.  I don't know why Mordechai didn't say that he was a stupid immature man and that you'rer a women so you will automatically do the right thing. Us men are stupid and immature. And Esther by hearing this would automatically do the right thing.  This is what should have been said and this is the way events should have transpired the way JTF feels about men and women.

[kahaneloyalist]

adam, you are right that the roles of Men and Women are totally twisted but I think you are reading way too much into Chaim's statement, why dont you at least wait till he answers tonights ask JTF before going off like this

[adam613]

I honestly don't think I am reading too much into this. I do think Dovid's behavior was much worse then Chaim's was but I was ticked off by this and I will explain more as to why. I haven't heard ask JTF but somebody could fill me in before I listen to it because I am sure he is upset at me for going off and it may be easier for me to listen to once somebody fills me in.

 WHAT UPSET ME was I am sure occasionally Chaim says something looking back that maybe wasn't the best thing to say and that is OK. Chaim is not G-d not of us are G-d and we all mistakes sometimes and none of us are perfect. And that includes women too. They are not G-d either and again not being perfect is OK. We are human beings. I just felt though when he starts by saying us men are immature to rationalize his own occasional shortcomings is just not acceptable. If CHAIM really thinks that way why should I support JTF.  I should support a women group that supports Judea and Samaria.  I really was disturbed at playing his maleness for his shortcomings rather then just saying I make mistakes occaisonally. If Chaim is going to say things like that why should I take JTF seriously?

  There also is the bigger picture of the fact that it is important that women have some respect for men. Men should have some respect for women but it is a two way street.  Many Jewish women only know how to relate to men that act like doormats. They think that any Jewish man that demands a little respect is evil and a women hater. This has horrible consequences for fathers and male children. Mothers feel they have the right to insult their male children because they are told by so many so called Rabbi's that men are just stupid and immature and that is the way g-d created men. To be immature and stupid.

   Male neglect and abuse is very high in America. In so called "Orthodox Judaism", many Ball Tushuva groups are only interested in attracting young women. Many Orthodox Jewish groups doesn't ever mention Jewish women who have spoken out to some degree or another against the way men are being treated and fathers are being treated. They honor women businesswoman and actors, and tried to bring them back to Orthodoxy. But the really good women most Orthodox groups don't care about. They attract very selfish vain women to Orthodoxy and this causes more decent women to not have anything to do with Orthodoxy as I am sure these women think the more decent women are disturbed for not hating men and being as vein as they are. These women's hatred toward men that Orthodox attracts causes very few Baal Tushuva's of men that don't agree to be doormats and makes it very difficult for a man to remain religious who doesn't insult other men the way Dovid did for no reason.

  I DO VERY STRONGLY FEEL FROM GROWING UP IN NY AND GETTING THE JEWISH PRESS (I ALSO KNOW RABBI MOSHE TENDLER. I THINK HE FELT HIGHLY OF RABBI KAHANE. HE WAS MY CHILDHOOD RABBI.) AND KNOWING A LITTLE ABOUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE THE KAHANIST MOVEMENT IS VERY WEAK WHEN IT COMES TO GENDER ISSUES. I THINK IT IS MOSTLY THEY THOUGH IT WAS GOOD FOR THE LEADERS TO GET MARRIED AND HAVE LARGE FAMILIES TO KISS UP TO WOMEN BUT SCREW EVERYBODY ELSE WHO WAS HURT BY WOMEN WHO HAVE SWELLED HEADS. RABBI'S IS THE ONLY PROFESSION WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE WITH WOMEN AND IT HAS LED TO RABBI'S BEING VERY NAIVE ABOUT WOMEN IN SOME CASES AND RABBI KAHANE IN THIS AREA I DON'T THINK HE BEHAVED PROPERLY. MOST MEN ON TOP ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE THE VICTIM OF FEMINISM. BUT US LOWER LEVEL MEN ARE HURT BY IT. I HONESTLY THINK HE WAS VERY WEAK IN THIS AREA AND IT HAS BEEN PASSED ON TO CHAIM. THIS INCIDENT ALSO ISN"T THE FIRST TIME OF WEAKNESS IN THIS AREA.

A few more items. I was also very upset when he gave the Chanukah's speech. Having a large family is an OLEM HABA (Next world) issue. Why isn't it an OLEM HAZEH (This world) issue. It really upset me that again when it comes to family issues and healthy families the KAHANIST movement doesn't see it as a THIS WORLD issue. Chaim never talks about Israel as for the NEXT WORLD. Then he says that because one woman was outraged about what the Roman's forcing them to be immodest because of one woman all women are holy. Of course when Chaim does something wrong it is because all men are evil.  Furthermore, I would ask why G-d allowed the Roman's to do this Jewish women in the first place and hid his face. I would assume that maybe many Jewish women weren't being modest in the first place and g-d had to teach then a lesson but the Roman's went too far and their reasoning was not to punish the women.

This misandry needs to stop. I agree that some men do horrible things and in some area's men are worse then women. There are other sins more common among women and anyone who opens up their eyes knows this is true. 

By this naive idea that women are naturally good and being afraid to make any rules and demands on women  are allowing very vile women to take over Orthodoxy who usually treat good women badly. It also is putting impossible demands on the men who  are forced to carry the demands of both their side and the women's and this is being cruel to the men and causing them a lot of health physical and psychological problems if they don't just leave religious Orthodoxy completely being fed up with demand upon demand yet the women can do as they please and they think if they are nice enough the women will automatically do the right thing which sad to say isn't happening and many women are being led on a bad path by feminist women who claim they aren't feminist and are furm women and these women are a bunch of liars.  How can women be attracted to men that seem so burnt out because of all the demands made on them. They can't even relate because few demands are made on the women.

[adam613]

Whoops! Thanks for correcting me.

[Lisa]

Adam, as the only woman on this forum who is pretty darn rightwing, I would like add to this discussion. 

I have been reading the JFT site for years, and I also listened to Chaim's last "Ask JFT" show where he answered your questions/comments. 

Although I haven't listened to the latest show that you found objectionable, I have never seen anything on the web site or in past shows that is anti-male.  Now, that's not to say that there's never any male bashing in this country -- look in advertisements and college campuses -- there is. 

In terms of women "civilizing" men in marriage, I think you're misinterpreting it.  Men and women's brains are different, and their modes of interaction are also different.  It has nothing to do with being "barbaric," or bashing men.  I see it more as a complementary thing in a happy marriage, which is essential for raising a family.

Ultra right wing gun toting blogger Kim Du Toit (a man) wrote an EXCELLENT essay a while back called "The Pussification of the Western Male."   Kim points out that the act of women "civilizing" men in marriage is part of the natural order of things.  And he is NO metrosexual wussie whatsoever.  Here's a link:

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/essays/the_pussification_of_the_western_male/

[adam613]

>Although I haven't listened to the latest show that you found objectionable

If you haven't listened to it I don't think it is fair to criticize me, Lisa. Listen to the first 8 minutes of take back America and then get back to me. If you were married, Lisa, you  also may have some boost in your logic skills. 

I question how conservative you really are. You praise Tammy Bruce who openly says on her site she is pro life and is a feminist. And you call yourself a conservative. More idol worship of childbearing women at the expense of everybody else. Some of the fetuses these women abort were going to be girls. Don't you know that, Lisa?You have admitted that your sisters are liberal and think you are a right wing wack job and they are still your sisters but it didn't seem to bother you at all even though it doesn't sound like they think highly of you. You openly said this on your blog. Do you have any brothers Lisa. It sounds to me you have a bad alterior motive for being a Republican. I get that sense from what I just mentioned above.

I do have a yonger sister Lisa and we do talk to each other although we can't eat together at my parents house because they always favor my sister and can't and never have been able to deal with us together and expect me the older sibling to respect her more even though I am the older sibling.  If you don't have any brothers you need to learn more about men then I do about women. I grew up with a sister and taught her a few things so I can see what women are better then men at and what they are worse then men at. If you didn't have any brothers growing up you have no clue to some of the horrible stuff being done to men. I also have been currently speaking to a young women for about a year now and she admits that her mother wants her to marry a man that has no backbone but she has told me she is glad that I have values but that her mother doesn't like me. She has gone out with other guys which she admits are wishy washy but her mother likes them.

In terms of women civilizing men, again, it is a two way street and you shouldn't be arrogant in your thinking that women can change men so much. In America today women can throw a man out of a home for anything and that some men are afriad of the 1 billion dollar domestic violence scam run by feminists who are not married and since they are not married want to destroy all other marriges. This is what causes some men to just bow down to their wives and even when their wives are doing horrible things. Not you, Lisa, you silly twit. Michael Savage has been married for 30 years and yet some on this site call him all kind of names. His wife has been on the show by the way on a few special anniversery shows.

This is becoming so silly and irrational. There is only one Jewish women contributing here and Chaim and Dovid attack men who are 35 years old and younger saying that all American men and are immature and women are better then men in all area's. I would bet at least 80% of the people here are men under 35. No women has married Chaim for all he has done for the Jewish people and yet he is unable to express any anger towards his own women for this injustice. He transplants his anger at men who are his biggest supporters and praises women that are not there. Chaim certainlly cannot help anyone if he doesn't stop this and see his own insanity. Rabbi Kahane had some faults and was certainlly naive with regard to women (being nice) and Chaim seems to be unwilling to move the movement forward and take the good from Rabbi Kahane and reject the bad. A healthy movement learns from its mistakes. He has done many good things but when Chaim is wrong he blames other men for it. How nice.

Anyway, men also help women become more rational and logical while women help men temper justice with mercy. Men are suppose to teach their wives what the torah says. Women are the one's that give birth to the children and have the most affect on raising moral children.


 

[Lisa]

Adam,

No one here on this forum is criticizing you. 

Like I said, I've been a JTF viewer for years.  I've heard Chaim speak in person, and I've even spoken with him once on the phone.  I have never heard him or any of the other JTF people ever criticize men or unduly idolize women.  In fact, I think Chaim was extremely courteous in his response to you on the most recent Ask JTF program.  So I think I'm allowed to have an opinion.  If you want to take it as a criticism, then that's your choice. 

In terms of how conservative I am, who designated you as the conservative police, judge jury and executioner???

As for my sisters being more liberal than I am, it's not my place to tell how to vote or what to believe.  They are my family.  I love them and they love me.  And frankly, and you're in no position to go on about my motives.   

In terms of knowing anything about men, I do not need to be taught by someone who obssessively blames the entire female gender because he is unmarried.  To his credit, Chaim doesn't blame all women and feminism for his being single. 

[adam613]

Lisa Wrote:
>No one here on this forum is criticizing you. 

Lisa, do I have the right to feel or you decide when I can feel insulted. Your arrogance is terrible.  You didn't even hear the show. Other people don't deny it happened. You're like Yacov that ignore everything I write and  don't even feel I am worth a debate and act dumb when I post. What I have done to you that you don't trust me and assume I am liar I have no idea.  I HAVE ALSO LISTENED TO CHAIM FOR A LONG TIME AND I ALSO KNOW OTHER PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED RABBI KAHANE AND THE JEWISH PRESS WHICH I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT.

I will say it again. Dovid said that American men under 35 are immature and women are better then men in all area's and HE knows American men. If you think that is OK you are a very sick person. This is basically spitting on the people that mostly give to this forum. Chaim started this by saying that by puting himself down by saying that us men are just are naturally immature. I read some of your other comments in the Adios section. I guess you hate Scriabin too. He left because he also felt Chaim didn't care about men. You think most men are bad and men that aren't bad you thing don't exist and that is very disturbing, Lisa. And again you defend a women Tammy Bruce that is openly Pro Choice and feminist you call yourself conservative. I think you are dishonest, not me.  And obviously you didn't grow up with a brother so you don't have much sympathy or are even aware of many struggles men have to deal with in so many area's both in the home and school.

[TheCoon]

Adam, you sound like a muslim when you talk about women. Chaim was right, get a grip on reality and get over it.  And for God's sake, don't attack Lisa because you're so filled with muslim-like anger.

[adam613]

Thunderbolt, you owe me an apologize. I don't forgive you for saying I have muslimlike anger.  I never called anyone here on this board muslimlike. If you keep this up I think you should be banned.  Calling what I did muslimlike. I hope women jump to conclusions about you and tell you when you can be happy when you can be sad when you can be nice when you can be mean. And support women who are pro choice. And you better do exactly what they say Thunderbolt even if it is against the Torah and not show any bad emotion, thunderbolt. Because that is what you are saying. I hope to hear an apology from you soon. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Adam, I barely know you but your posts are generally characterized by an air of male jingoism that is weird and abnormal even for the right wing. The feminist establishment is evil, but that does not mean that every single person who has feministic principles of some sort is evil. Your posts could alienate a lot of noble Kahanist women.

I am beginning to wonder if satan is using you to drive a wedge within us Kahanists using your extreme and irrational theories about women. We're supposed to be fighting Muslims, self-hating Jews, and Western one-world elites--not our sisters, daughters, wives, etc.

You need to stop criticizing Chaim and David. End of story.