I suggest two things be outlawed on the JTF forum for the good of the movt.

[q_q_]

May hashem give you enough wisdom to realize that Lubavitchers are wonderful people and that they do not deserve to be constantly criticized and attacked.

As far as I am concerned, I do not criticise or attack them.

Most of my favourite rabbis are lubavitch.

Their contributions are unique, immense and unparallelled.

Making it easy for people to fulfill mitzvot.   On purim local chabad houses hold reading of megillat esther many times and some they do without lots of noise, some with noise. It's excellent. And most flexible.

And having chabad houses in far out places make it easy for jews to travel all over the world, whether jewish businessmen, or young jews, or jews going on far out courses to study.

 

[DownwithIslam]

May hashem give you enough wisdom to realize that Lubavitchers are wonderful people and that they do not deserve to be constantly criticized and attacked.

As far as I am concerned, I do not criticise or attack them.

Most of my favourite rabbis are lubavitch.

Their contributions are unique, immense and unparallelled.

Making it easy for people to fulfill mitzvot.   On purim local chabad houses hold reading of megillat esther many times and some they do without lots of noise, some with noise. It's excellent. And most flexible.

And having chabad houses in far out places make it easy for jews to travel all over the world, whether jewish businessmen, or young jews, or jews going on far out courses to study.

 

Finally a post of yours that makes sense. It is very refreshing. Maybe this will be a new page in our history where Lubavitch will no longer fall victim. I am very happy about this post.

[syyuge]

It all becomes a similar catch-22 situation when dealing with muslamic terrorism anywhere, whether in Foolishtine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechenya or any other part of the world.

The real problem is that the Muslamics do not have any human sentiments. They have absolutely no consideration for the mothers, sisters, children and innocents of the infidels. I have never seen any muslamic feeling even a remote sense of guilt or injustice when they mercilessly massacred the hundreds of hapless pilgrims and thousands of other innocent citizens. Rather each one of then rejoices such situations at some pretext or the other, most preferably in the name of their moon deity.

Problem is that the responsibilities of all the good acts and actions on this earth are considered to be lying squarely on the shoulders of Jewish and their friends, and the Muslamics get running free.

Anyhow I am proud that there are some among us who don't feel it good even when a muslamic mother is seen under severe distress, but such things shall not be made serious points of confrontation among ourselves. Again Muslamics shall be the first and the last persons to rejoice such a tricky situation.

Surely there are certain contradictions within ourselves, but while discussing them we we should not jump overboard to the deserts where muslamics are eagerly waiting with Ak-47s.

I mean if we are sincere, we should not throw the Baby with the water of the tub.

With Regards...  

[q_q_]

DWI, I would say that I do not have an agenda to praise or criticise lubavitch.

Now as I said. Your claim is that I have an agenda to criticise lubavitch.

or you might claim that I sometimes follow an agenda of criticising lubavitch.
And you think those posts should be banned.

As I said, stop harassing the forum about it, and sabotaging torah threads..

Either make the case seriously. By Quoting me.
And you may as well do it here. So your evidence is in one central place.
And then make the case to Ban the kind of discussion that I have had.

But you have no right to sabotage threads and harass the forum when you don't get your way.
And that is what you are doing when you post empty claims that you admit you refuse to back up.
And by doing so, you allow yourself to repost the same claims over and over again.

I don't suggest people do this willy nilly, but in your case, it is preferable to you harassing the forum.
REPORT TO MODERATORS.
Click that button if you don't like my posts.
That's better than sabotaging any discussion that you object to.

And if you don't like the way this forum is run, then start your own like the other idiots.

[DownwithIslam]

I know that you are trying to silence your critics but I wont shut up. If you attack Lubavitch in a way that I am not comfortable with, the least I can do is chime in. You wont succeed in stopping that.

[q_q_]

I know that you are trying to silence your critics but I wont shut up. If you attack Lubavitch in a way that I am not comfortable with, the least I can do is chime in. You wont succeed in stopping that.

It is not Chiming in.

It is repeating an endless canard.  As a protest that you don't have the power to remove my posts.


You want to make your case. Make it here and  provide a link to that case, in the thread you wish to chime in to.

Then you can "chime in" without sabotaging the thread.

But you will always want to destroy any torah thread that you don't like , you would rather sabotage the thread, than inform people of your "case" that I am anti lubavitch.

You have no right to damage discussion on the JTF forum.

[syyuge]

May I sincerely request to both of you, that you may have your correct but diverse opinions. However you may please not allow them to be to be discussed in a manner unworthy of this forum. After all you both have highly valued opinions here.

With Regards...    

[DownwithIslam]

May I sincerely request to both of you, that you may have your correct but diverse opinions. However you may please not allow them to be to be discussed in a manner unworthy of this forum. After all you both have highly valued opinions here.

With Regards...    

That is a good request and I will comply.

[syyuge]

May I sincerely request to both of you, that you may have your correct but diverse opinions. However you may please not allow them to be to be discussed in a manner unworthy of this forum. After all you both have highly valued opinions here.

With Regards...    

That is a good request and I will comply.

Thanx for complying to request and editing.

[judeanoncapta]

I really cannot stand when Chabad is criticized on this forum. Many times people try to cloak their hatred of Lubavitch with the "civilized debate" guise. Their is nothing bad at all that can be said about Chabad. All you have to do is watch videos of the Israeli soldiers going into battle in Lebanon 06'. At the Lebanon border and under rocket fire, Chabad Rabbeim were there giving the soldiers words of encouragement and blessing them. Why dont I see all the litvak yeshivas sending their bochurim to the front lines? I am not even asking for the Rabbeim to go, just the bochurim. Their is no other group that goes above and beyond to help their fellow jews like Chabad does. Any negative talk about Chabad is Loshon Hara and a lie. The JTF forum should not tolerate a single negative post in regards to Lubavitch. I would call for bannings here even if that means loosing a few members. This is a matter of principle.

Another problem that arises from time to time are those that foolishly bash genitles. This has the potential to hurt JTF and drive away righteous gentiles that come here to support us. Their should be a zero tolerance policy in regard to these two issues.

I am not referring to anyone in particular so nobody should get defensive. The point of this thread is not to cause division but unity instead. Lets hope that Chaim becomes PM of Israel which would definitely lead to a better world for all righteous people.

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

I clearly said that I was not referring to anyone in particular. I am not sure why you took this personally. No criticism of Lubavitch is acceptable to me.

DWI, you are playing games.  We are not idiots.  Anyone can put two and two together and understand what you are referring to.   We are big boys on this forum.  We have Torah discussions sometimes.  There will be disagreements.   There never really was much of a problem until you came running in guns-a-blazing  accusing everyone else of hating Lubavitch and loshon hara.   I don't see Lubab having this reaction.  

I also can't for the life of me understand why you continue to pretend that ALL OF LUBAVITCH are messichist.  THEY AREN'T.    

Does that mean I should accuse you of hating non-messichist Lubavitchers, and turning them away from our movement, causing division, etc etc?

Their was no problem in your eyes as long as you are on the offensive. I have started a thread here stating that certain things should be banned. I am not the one who has the power to implement this. Lets see what Chaim has to say. If he agrees with me that these things should be banned, they will. If he doesn't agree with me, that is fine and I will drop this. I didn't say that anyone in particular should be banned. I said that certain things shouldn't be allowed. And you are not the one to say whether or not Lubab is offended but that is a side issue.

Chaim himself has, on more than one occasion, disagreed vigorously with Chabad philosophy even going so far as to say that the Tanya(the central book of Chabad theology) does not represent classical Jewish thought.

I suppose Chaim should be thrown off of the forum as well.

[DownwithIslam]

I really cannot stand when Chabad is criticized on this forum. Many times people try to cloak their hatred of Lubavitch with the "civilized debate" guise. Their is nothing bad at all that can be said about Chabad. All you have to do is watch videos of the Israeli soldiers going into battle in Lebanon 06'. At the Lebanon border and under rocket fire, Chabad Rabbeim were there giving the soldiers words of encouragement and blessing them. Why dont I see all the litvak yeshivas sending their bochurim to the front lines? I am not even asking for the Rabbeim to go, just the bochurim. Their is no other group that goes above and beyond to help their fellow jews like Chabad does. Any negative talk about Chabad is Loshon Hara and a lie. The JTF forum should not tolerate a single negative post in regards to Lubavitch. I would call for bannings here even if that means loosing a few members. This is a matter of principle.

Another problem that arises from time to time are those that foolishly bash genitles. This has the potential to hurt JTF and drive away righteous gentiles that come here to support us. Their should be a zero tolerance policy in regard to these two issues.

I am not referring to anyone in particular so nobody should get defensive. The point of this thread is not to cause division but unity instead. Lets hope that Chaim becomes PM of Israel which would definitely lead to a better world for all righteous people.

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

I clearly said that I was not referring to anyone in particular. I am not sure why you took this personally. No criticism of Lubavitch is acceptable to me.

DWI, you are playing games.  We are not idiots.  Anyone can put two and two together and understand what you are referring to.   We are big boys on this forum.  We have Torah discussions sometimes.  There will be disagreements.   There never really was much of a problem until you came running in guns-a-blazing  accusing everyone else of hating Lubavitch and loshon hara.   I don't see Lubab having this reaction.  

I also can't for the life of me understand why you continue to pretend that ALL OF LUBAVITCH are messichist.  THEY AREN'T.    

Does that mean I should accuse you of hating non-messichist Lubavitchers, and turning them away from our movement, causing division, etc etc?

Their was no problem in your eyes as long as you are on the offensive. I have started a thread here stating that certain things should be banned. I am not the one who has the power to implement this. Lets see what Chaim has to say. If he agrees with me that these things should be banned, they will. If he doesn't agree with me, that is fine and I will drop this. I didn't say that anyone in particular should be banned. I said that certain things shouldn't be allowed. And you are not the one to say whether or not Lubab is offended but that is a side issue.

Chaim himself has, on more than one occasion, disagreed vigorously with Chabad philosophy even going so far as to say that the Tanya(the central book of Chabad theology) does not represent classical Jewish thought.

I suppose Chaim should be thrown off of the forum as well.

I honestly have never heard Chaim say that. I have only heard him praise Lubavitch more then he praises almost anyone else. I view that as something good. But I have to say again that I never heard Chaim criticize Lubavitch at all.

[judeanoncapta]

I can go back to the archives of ASK JTF and reteive the audio.

Would you like me to do so?

[DownwithIslam]

I can go back to the archives of ASK JTF and reteive the audio.

Would you like me to do so?

I am not even joking, I have listened to I think every single show for many years and I have not ever heard Chaim even criticize Lubavitch. If you do take the time to search through the archives and you do point me to the show where Chaim said that about Chabad, I will still be against criticising Lubavitch but I will indeed admit that you proved me wrong and that Chaim did indeed criticize them. I love Chabad regardless but I am indeed interested to hear Chaims words on this issue and I will admit that you were right if you do find the show. Thanks Judeanoncapta.

[Dr. Dan]

I really cannot stand when Chabad is criticized on this forum. Many times people try to cloak their hatred of Lubavitch with the "civilized debate" guise. Their is nothing bad at all that can be said about Chabad. All you have to do is watch videos of the Israeli soldiers going into battle in Lebanon 06'. At the Lebanon border and under rocket fire, Chabad Rabbeim were there giving the soldiers words of encouragement and blessing them. Why dont I see all the litvak yeshivas sending their bochurim to the front lines? I am not even asking for the Rabbeim to go, just the bochurim. Their is no other group that goes above and beyond to help their fellow jews like Chabad does. Any negative talk about Chabad is Loshon Hara and a lie. The JTF forum should not tolerate a single negative post in regards to Lubavitch. I would call for bannings here even if that means loosing a few members. This is a matter of principle.

Another problem that arises from time to time are those that foolishly bash genitles. This has the potential to hurt JTF and drive away righteous gentiles that come here to support us. Their should be a zero tolerance policy in regard to these two issues.

I am not referring to anyone in particular so nobody should get defensive. The point of this thread is not to cause division but unity instead. Lets hope that Chaim becomes PM of Israel which would definitely lead to a better world for all righteous people.

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

I clearly said that I was not referring to anyone in particular. I am not sure why you took this personally. No criticism of Lubavitch is acceptable to me.

DWI, you are playing games.  We are not idiots.  Anyone can put two and two together and understand what you are referring to.   We are big boys on this forum.  We have Torah discussions sometimes.  There will be disagreements.   There never really was much of a problem until you came running in guns-a-blazing  accusing everyone else of hating Lubavitch and loshon hara.   I don't see Lubab having this reaction.  

I also can't for the life of me understand why you continue to pretend that ALL OF LUBAVITCH are messichist.  THEY AREN'T.    

Does that mean I should accuse you of hating non-messichist Lubavitchers, and turning them away from our movement, causing division, etc etc?

Their was no problem in your eyes as long as you are on the offensive. I have started a thread here stating that certain things should be banned. I am not the one who has the power to implement this. Lets see what Chaim has to say. If he agrees with me that these things should be banned, they will. If he doesn't agree with me, that is fine and I will drop this. I didn't say that anyone in particular should be banned. I said that certain things shouldn't be allowed. And you are not the one to say whether or not Lubab is offended but that is a side issue.

Chaim himself has, on more than one occasion, disagreed vigorously with Chabad philosophy even going so far as to say that the Tanya(the central book of Chabad theology) does not represent classical Jewish thought.

I suppose Chaim should be thrown off of the forum as well.

I honestly have never heard Chaim say that. I have only heard him praise Lubavitch more then he praises almost anyone else. I view that as something good. But I have to say again that I never heard Chaim criticize Lubavitch at all.

He praises them for hahavat yisrael...but he disagrees with certain fundamental things whcih i dont' remember what it was....it becomes more of an arguement between this world and the world to come...but chaim has disagreed respectfully with Lubab on certain things.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I can go back to the archives of ASK JTF and reteive the audio.

Would you like me to do so?

I am not even joking, I have listened to I think every single show for many years and I have not ever heard Chaim even criticize Lubavitch.

So that means they are infallible?

[Lubab]

I don't mind if people want to criticize and ask question about the Lubavitch position on things, I only wish it would be done with bit more respect sometimes. Sometimes people just will totally discount things from the Lubavitcher Rebbe or the Alter Rebbe...I laugh and cry at the same time when I see it because they have no IDEA what a mockery they are making of themselves. They have no idea what Torah giants they are mocking...and that is quite hurtful.

But questions and comments are welcome and encouraged!

[SavetheWest]

There's something I want to add:
There are some kind of threads I'm concerned about.
I want to give you 2 examples and explain my view:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?PHPSESSID=o7cgeeso0ho3g9be8tjtvhfsk5&topic=23160.0
This one might be funny to some, but it doesn't help us in getting the facts and the message out. What it might do is that it may disturb potential new members and supporters. Since we possibly have more traffic due to Chaims press release and the ads on webpages it doesn't seem a very smart thing to do.
Moreover we all know that JTF often is accused of being racist. Now, what kind of impression will threads like that give to visitors, who possibly don't know much of our movement? Will it boost the claim JTF is racist or the fact that JTF is not racist like Chaim made it clear?

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?PHPSESSID=o7cgeeso0ho3g9be8tjtvhfsk5&topic=23291.0
Again that thread doesn't help us in getting the facts and the message out. What it does is that it gives the impression JTF celebrates the mourning and trouble of other people without having detailed information about the situation. It may well unsettle and disencourage possible new members from joining because of the impression of blind hatred. Since we can expect to have more traffic on the forum this is not a smart thing to do.


This posting is not about attacking MW or IIC on a personal level. It's also not about my personal feelings, for the case some assume I'm bringing it up to feel better.
It is solely about the cause.
In my eyes everything we do on this forum must be measured by one question: Does it further or damage the cause?
What I'm trying to explain has (conceptionally speaking) to to with Pareto optimality. Transfering that to our postings it means that there are two dimensions we can influence with them.
The first one is how well we get our message across, the second dimension is what kind of impression the reader gets. Of course it's only rational to say that both dimensions need to be optimized.
Now if one dimension (getting information across well)  can due to the nature of the topic not be influenced (=optimized) than we should make sure that our posting optimizes at least the remaining dimension (Impression the reader gets).
Although I don't promote censorship this concept also indicates that one should be reluctant towards posts that are not pareto optimal.

I hope I didn't confuse too many but I feel thats a rational way to bring across my thoughts.

I agree, if one of the 4% of blacks who are trending not to vote for Obama comes here to say they hate Obama, they won't help the movement if they think everyone here is calling all blacks the n word or monkeys.  I think that pic was funny and it just made fun of Michelle Obama but if people start attacking anyone with black skin, it won't help the movement and it will marginalize it. 

[q_q_]

May I sincerely request to both of you, that you may have your correct but diverse opinions. However you may please not allow them to be to be discussed in a manner unworthy of this forum. After all you both have highly valued opinions here.

With Regards...    

That is a good request and I will comply.

This is how you comply.

CF: 
 Newsflash, that pig(the satmar rebbe) was a "rebbe" about as much as his hero Adolf Hitler was.

QQ:
you're just an ignorant immature kid,  you're not jewish,  and you don't know what you're talking about.

DWI:
QQ, CF is a righteous gentile. You are an evil rasha and a follower of Mohamad the rapist. I would trust Chaimfan over a rasha like you anyday.

[DownwithIslam]

May I sincerely request to both of you, that you may have your correct but diverse opinions. However you may please not allow them to be to be discussed in a manner unworthy of this forum. After all you both have highly valued opinions here.

With Regards...    

That is a good request and I will comply.

This is how you comply.

CF: 
 Newsflash, that pig(the satmar rebbe) was a "rebbe" about as much as his hero Adolf Hitler was.

QQ:
you're just an ignorant immature kid,  you're not jewish,  and you don't know what you're talking about.

DWI:
QQ, CF is a righteous gentile. You are an evil rasha and a follower of Mohamad the rapist. I would trust Chaimfan over a rasha like you anyday.

GAY CLAP DAYN KAP IN VANT
Sure I wrote that you are a rasha but that is after you attacked.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

Then I want to see equal criticism of Saatmar "messianic" theology.

[q_q_]

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

Then I want to see equal criticism of Saatmar "messianic" theology.

your idea of criticising satmar is calling them nazis.

Religious Jewish criticism of satmar on this forum, has been similar to jewish criticism of lubavitch moshichists.  i.e. That the RAMBAM supports neither, despite their claims.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

DWI, what is your deal?   This is just more putting words into people's mouths and ascribing horrible intentions and emotions on people who don't harbor them.   I don't know how many times I can stress this point that it is not HATRED OF LUBAVITCH to disagree with Chabad messianic theology.   You seem to have serious issues.   It's really getting tiresome.  Your accusations are really getting off the wall here.

Then I want to see equal criticism of Saatmar "messianic" theology.

 I do not know enough about Satmar, but I do not believe that they hold their Rebbe is Moshiach ( but anyway in general, I am agains't such groups, because of what it can lead to) Once again I said agains't, being agains't someone does not mean that one hates them. And anyway their is no one here to debate agains't Satmer positions, because no one holds by them here.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

HELLO, Joel Teitelbaum (who is chilling in a vat of molten sulphur as we type) COLLABORATED with Adolf Hitler. He wrote all of his brainwashed followers letters telling them that the Nazis just wanted them to work for a while and would not hurt them.

If that isn't being a Nazi, I don't know what is.

[DownwithIslam]

HELLO, Joel Teitelbaum (who is chilling in a vat of molten sulphur as we type) COLLABORATED with Adolf Hitler. He wrote all of his brainwashed followers letters telling them that the Nazis just wanted them to work for a while and would not hurt them.

If that isn't being a Nazi, I don't know what is.

Chaimfan, you are exactly right. Their is no question that the satamr devil is right now intimate with hitler and goebels in gehenom.

[q_q_]

You don't curse jews.

The Satmar Rebbe was a rabbi too. Whether you like it or not.