q_q, what is there to defend when a group of so-called Jews places flowers on Arafat's grave, or when they go to Iran for Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial conference? Or how about when they say that Israel should be dismantled?
Also, although you and DownwithIslam don't see eye to eye, he is no lemming whatsoever.
OK.. Although this is in a thread. I write this for you, or for those I have had intelligent discussions with. Ad not for those whome I know this is too deep for.
If somebody says that neturei karta want to kill jews. Then I would defend them against that criticism.
They are very straight forward and honest, and they have explained what they do , one can listen to them in their own words on youtube or google video. And Rabbi Mayer Schiller has a good analysis of them as well.
They believe that we must not rise up against the nations -ever, and that we should not be ruling over them, and that we are guests in whatever country we are in, and must be on our best behaviour. (not like the american view of being a citizen and knowing your rights).
They don't believe that living as dhimmi, being treated like donkeys even, is bad. They are fine with that. They just purely want to keep the torah. Shabbat, Kashrut, as long as they can do that, they are happy. And they will honour whoever is ruling over them. As they pray for moshiach to come.
I aspoke to a neturei karta guy, and in a very honest conversation he came up with a statement that he wouldn't have said to most people, because he they wouldn't get it. But he could see that I got it. And I understood. When he was telling me how great things were living under the arabs, he said "We were their donkeys, they needed us, they would not have hurt us".
It is incredible how it is the inverse of kahanism.. Rabbi Kahane taught based on Ezekiel chapter 36, that jewish strength is a kiddush hashem, and jewish weakness is a chillul hashem.
Rabbi Kahane did criticise neturei kartar for standing with the enemy. But that is something else.
Lisa, are you jewish? It is relevant because jews should not teach torah to non-jews.
There is a torah shiur Rav Kahane gave at YU. Where he said. Take a torah position, And if you say we cannot rise up against the nations. Then say so, But that means we can -never- rise up against them. And don't play games, he said. Neturei Karta, and probably satmar too, do take this torah position , infact neturei karta have an article on their site praising a rabbi for telling jews not to rfight a regime, and to die in honour of G-d's name. They believed they were, since they believe they are forbidden to fight back.
Sure, some aspects of neturei karta as very bad. But don't misundestand them. They go to people that they think might have animousity towards jews, and they are good to them and honour them and they actually help the jews living in those countries, they check up on their welfare. They submit to bullies or anybody, asking only that they be allowed to keep the torah, that's all they care about, to keep the torah is their dignity, not civil rights.
Of course this is misunderstood. This concept is totally alien to people. They have an ideology, and most people don't have the capacity to understand it anymore than the left can understand muslims. It's totally alien to them, they cannot relate to it. And they see them standing with enemies and assume that it is just like joe westerner standing with them. They live in a different world.
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