Poll

     What is the most important attribute of a good wife?

Modesty
2 (7.7%)
Piety
1 (3.8%)
Housekeeping ability
4 (15.4%)
Fond of children
4 (15.4%)
Appearance
1 (3.8%)
Intelligence
6 (23.1%)
Other
8 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 1

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Offline mazz

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2008, 07:39:18 PM »
Proverbs 31 ;)
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2008, 08:08:53 AM »
Intelligence all the way.  I married a liberal ding bat.

  OH NO Maximus!!! :-[
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2008, 01:42:29 AM »
Of those listed, piety hands down. Piety covers modesty and a whole lot of other things. A G-d-fearing wife will strive to be as intelligent as possible (i.e. to use the gifts the L-rd has given her), will be a devoted mother, and will care about her appearance.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2008, 01:47:41 AM »
Paulette and Shlomo,

I do believe in the principle of submission, because the Bible teaches it, but at the same time we need to remember that "submission" and "headship" are not really issues when two people of the same faith and calling marry. Both partners are going to be obedient to what G-d wants and is calling them to do.

Offline Shiptar

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2008, 11:14:37 PM »
I find modesty/humbleness so attractive.

Offline AsheDina

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2008, 07:39:41 AM »
Paulette and Shlomo,

I do believe in the principle of submission, because the Bible teaches it, but at the same time we need to remember that "submission" and "headship" are not really issues when two people of the same faith and calling marry. Both partners are going to be obedient to what G-d wants and is calling them to do.

  Women need to just stop being power hungry monsters. PERIOD.
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Offline P J C

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2008, 10:38:06 AM »
Intelligence! Then Beauty.  8;)
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Offline Scriabin

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2008, 09:10:59 PM »
Intelligence all the way.  I married a liberal ding bat.

  OH NO Maximus!!! :-[

I agree.

A dumb person with a good heart is vastly superior to a genius with an evil one.

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2008, 05:05:35 AM »
I choose housekeeping ability but modesty and piety are equaly important.As far as looks go my friend married a beautifull girl she never cooked she always wanted to eat out very lazy.My friend worked 2 Jobs as a mechanic so they could live a good middle class life all she did was want more finally he got divorced.

She sounds like a spoiled brat!!!!

 :::D :laugh:
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2008, 08:03:06 AM »
LOYALTY. No man wants a woman that is NOT loyal.
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Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2008, 10:59:04 AM »
LOYALTY. No man wants a woman that is NOT loyal.
True, visa versa, also.... ;D
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Offline muman613

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2008, 05:33:05 AM »
Eishet Chayil

We sing this song on Friday night after the Shabbat meal. It describes the perfect Jewish woman:


A Woman of Valor, who can find? She is more precious than corals.
Her husband places his trust in her and profits only thereby.
She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life.
She seeks out wool and flax and cheerfully does the work of her hands.

She is like the trading ships, bringing food from afar.
She gets up while it is still night to provide food for her household, and a fair share for her staff.
She considers a field and purchases it, and plants a vineyard with the fruit of her labors.
She invests herself with strength and makes her arms powerful.

She senses that her trade is profitable; her light does not go out at night.
She stretches out her hands to the distaff and her palms hold the spindle.
She opens her hands to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
She has no fear of the snow for her household, for all her household is dressed in fine clothing.

She makes her own bedspreads; her clothing is of fine linen and luxurious cloth.
Her husband is known at the gates, where he sits with the elders of the land.
She makes and sells linens; she supplies the merchants with sashes.
She is robed in strength and dignity, and she smiles at the future.

She opens her mouth with wisdom and a lesson of kindness is on her tongue.
She looks after the conduct of her household and never tastes the bread of laziness.
Her children rise up and make her happy; her husband praises her:
"Many women have excelled, but you excell them all!"

Grace is elusive and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears G-d -- she shall be praised.
Give her credit for the fruit of her labors, and let her achievements praise her at the gates.


I hope that all men find a woman who fits this description, and all women endeavor to become an Eishet Chayil {Woman of Valor}.

muman613

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Offline q_q_

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2008, 06:32:34 AM »
ma<snip>, pregnant, obedient, always pretty, laughing, and cheerleading. Perfect Wife. What EVERY man is looking for.

I don't want a woman who is obedient <snip>. While I would love to have a big family, I need a little challenge in a relationship to remain happy and would hope she worked at least before children were born. I really would become bored if it was too easy.

i'm not sure if a woman that works is easier or more difficult than a woman that doesn't.

many would say it's easier for both of you if you both work.


Most women know this about men and it works the same for women. As humans, whether we like to admit it or not, we need challenge in order to be happy. I also would want her to have her own hobbies, mind, and independent self-image.

woman is described as a helper,

and later in Gen 3:16, in punishing the woman, the text shows G-d saying.

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall ****rule*** over thee."


It's NOT healthy for man to dominate women. If we look at the Torah's story of creation, G-d determines that man needs a helpmate, but it is a while before Eve is created. Instead, all the birds and animals are created and Adam is asked to name them. At the conclusion of this part, the Torah tells us, "... but for Adam no fitting helpmate was found." What's the lesson we learn from this? Why did G-d say this after Adam named the animals? Why wasn't Adam happy with an animal for a helpmate?

well, after Eve was created, Adam says she is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.. The text continues

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. "

The Torah uses euphemisms.  No *suitable* helper was found.

Obviously an animal may be a helper but isn't going to provide the intellectual stimulation,(and that serpant if he still talks is not very helpful!), the animal isn't going to he an intelligent helper, only a human can match that. 
Well, that could be Steve. Obviously Steve wouldn't be suitable, it wouldn't satisfy man's longing for a Woman.


As far as being a Helper is concerned, it requires obedience, and animals are very obedient.
So obedience isn't a problem, for a helper, if anything the lack of it is a problem.

The Torah does say man should rule over his wife.. dominate her.
i.e. boss her about.

I look at it as men have the ability to do it..
Women were so dependent on men.

In our times though, when one doesn't have to kill animals or chop down trees, and in these very recent times startling times, when some of the more physical women are getting strong enough to do these things themselves!  And all could from going to the gym like many do just to lose weight. And we don't even need the physical strength to do that anymore.  Women aren't stuck in the submissive position anymore, but they can't necessarily choose it either.


One thing I could say..
I did hear once that a proper translation is that G-d created a help to oppose him.  So that implies some equality.

I haven't seen that anywhere though.

At the end of the day, it's sad that G-d punished women with being bossed about. We don't have to be gratituitous about it.  And we may even follow their instructions sometimes  - so they feel a bit better.   If one really likes the girl, then one wouldn't want to boss her about telling her to do things that she doesn't want to do. The Torah doesn't give that counsel though.


Because an animal is subordinate to man. It's not his equal. Adam had been commanded earlier to "Have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." So Adam could not overcome his loneliness and find true love with a subordinate being, over whom he ruled.

it says to rule over her too, just later on.


The false religion islam and ego teaches men must dominate women. This type of will to control comes from insecurity and low self-esteem. It's an effort to control the outside because a person has no self control - which is what the soul really wants.

the soul really wants to dominate women?
I don't think so at all.

there is an idea in judaism that the soul is G-dly and perfect..   And you said that dominance is not the right way anyway.

I think some men just -don't care- and will boss women about making their lives misery.  I think if you CHOOSE a wife and make her life a misery, then either you're a bad guy or you chose the wrong one - one that annoys you, or you're not capable of being a good husband. I think a man like that should not have children.. though the torah says "be fruitful and multiply"..

I think a decent man would naturally NOT want to dominate women.

As you suggest yourself, you don't want to dominate women.


Man should have the ability to.. That in an argument he should be able to flip her upside down and take her out of the house.  But he shoudn't abuse this advantage!

(of course some madonna like women might be able to do this to their husbands.. but what can you do)

<snip>

Offline Shlomo

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2008, 06:39:28 AM »
It never says boss her around all the time.

It's a curse. It doesn't mean it's the ideal or what we are striving for. Just because they have greater pain in child bearing doesn't mean we should just chunk the pain medication... or turn up the heat at work to make sure we earn bread by the sweat of our brow. We strive to nullify curses.
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Offline q_q_

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2008, 08:08:48 AM »
It never says boss her around all the time.

It's a curse. It doesn't mean it's the ideal or what we are striving for. Just because they have greater pain in child bearing doesn't mean we should just chunk the pain medication... or turn up the heat at work to make sure we earn bread by the sweat of our brow. We strive to nullify curses.

If you see what I wrote, I never described it as an ideal!!!!

I said
"At the end of the day, it's sad that G-d punished women with being bossed about. We don't have to be gratituitous about it.  And we may even follow their instructions sometimes  - so they feel a bit better.   If one really likes the girl, then one wouldn't want to boss her about telling her to do things that she doesn't want to do. The Torah doesn't give that counsel though."

Note- ruling over her does mean bossing her about..  It says rule over her. 

But to elaborate on my point. about NOT bossing her about!

G-d says to Eve,  he shall rule over you. That means he shall boss you about. (infact, a rabbi I know that is very friendly and not a male chavinist at all, used those words.. to explain "rule over you", and he's right).

The important thing is, G-d didn't tell Adam that!

It is indeed a punishment that Eve has to bear, or could bear. And I agree we should lessen it as much as we can.

If I like a woman I wouldn't choose to marry her and then make her life miserable  "ruling over her"/bossing her about.   

These aren't absolute punishments.. Remember, Adam is punished with working the land. Not many of us are farmers. And a punishment to the snake affects Eve, and Adam, but we aren't plagued by snakes/serpents these days,

G-d's curse to the serpent.
"“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” (Genesis 3:15)"


Offline Shlomo

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2008, 09:11:06 AM »
Here, "rule over" means several things but not exactly what you are thinking. For example, as an extreme, it does not mean act like a muslim and beat your wife into submission and it does not even mean to boss your wife around like some type of insecure control freak (just using this as an example for clarification). It's a much deeper concept than this. Usually in most relationships, one person loves another more than the other and one has a certain control on the relationship and calls more of the shots by the very nature of this circumstance. Sure, a man should be strong and lead his family but he is commanded in the Torah to be kind and love his wife as he loves himself. How can you dominate and lord over someone that you love as yourself?

The ideal is to be with your equal because you can't respect - and therefore love - a person whom you rule over. This is very important and a person who does not heed this misses out on what that type of relationship has to offer. That's why it was a curse... and believe me, it was just as much a curse to Adam as it was to Eve.

This subject is very deep and can be misunderstood very easily. Perhaps, when I have more time, I can write more on this topic. Even the serpent is a deeper subject representing the animal nature in ourselves.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Scriabin

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2008, 10:02:40 AM »
It never says boss her around all the time.

It's a curse. It doesn't mean it's the ideal or what we are striving for. Just because they have greater pain in child bearing doesn't mean we should just chunk the pain medication... or turn up the heat at work to make sure we earn bread by the sweat of our brow. We strive to nullify curses.

Men have harder lives than Women.

This is why Women live longer than Men.

Offline q_q_

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2008, 10:55:39 AM »
Here, "rule over" means several things but not exactly what you are thinking. For example, as an extreme, it does not mean act like a muslim and beat your wife into submission and it does not even mean to boss your wife around like some type of insecure control freak (just using this as an example for clarification).

Of course I didn't have that in mind. And of course you would argue that "rule over" doesn't mean that.  Since you have argued that "Bossing her about" is not intended by that verse.

G-d might consider asking her to do the washing up to be "ruling over her".
And that she can't tell you to do things you don't want to do, because that would be her ruling you!

Bossing the woman about a bit is a very moderate interpretation of "ruling over her"

Again, i'm not saying that one should. Just that G-d told her, that that is her punishment.


It's a much deeper concept than this.

well your examples were beating the woman, and being a control freak , so yes it would be a "deeper" concept than that.

Usually in most relationships, one person loves another more than the other and one has a certain control on the relationship and calls more of the shots by the very nature of this circumstance. Sure, a man should be strong and lead his family but he is commanded in the Torah to be kind and love his wife as he loves himself. How can you dominate and lord over someone that you love as yourself?

as an entirely theoretical question, i'll give you an entirely theoretical answer.

have you ever seen how parents treat their children?
Put aside the reason why. It's an example, where A loves B or B,C,D, perhaps even more than themselves, but A bosses the hell out of B,C,D.

And BTW, Where does it say to love your wife as yourself?

As a personal belief, I do think that if you marry a woman, you better love her. And not just because you are commanded to!

BTW, I think you're on dangerous ground to say that in a relationship one loves the other more. And furthermore, that it's that reason why one calls the shots.

If 2 people will do anything for each other, can you really say , and is it really right to say or even to ask Who loves the other more?

And I think the one that calls the shots, assuming they are both logical, is the one more capable at the task.




The ideal is to be with your equal because you can't respect - and therefore love - a person whom you rule over. This is very important and a person who does not heed this misses out on what that type of relationship has to offer. That's why it was a curse... and believe me, it was just as much a curse to Adam as it was to Eve.

This subject is very deep and can be misunderstood very easily. Perhaps, when I have more time, I can write more on this topic. Even the serpent is a deeper subject representing the animal nature in ourselves.

You are acting like the punishment of ruling over your wife doesn't exist.

And indeed it doesn't , for that woman, if you're nice enough not to do so. In that sense, you are ruling over her!  Because you have the power to decide whether to boss her about or not.

Nowadays though, we are in unique times where women are not necessarily dependent on men, and -thankfully- in the west it's not considered OK to beat the woman up, so that creates an equalness there. And nobody is ruling over anybody else.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 11:15:47 AM by q_q_ »

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2008, 11:06:49 AM »
Most women (well, me, lol) want a man who is kind, compassionate, gentile, loving, a leader, will love and adore and protect her no matter what, go to the ends of the earth for her.....be faithful and true, a good provider.....and love G-d with all his heart, mind and sould and love his neighbor as himself...

Well, that's what I want, anyway...

but if he is going to be throwing me around the house or beating me, forget about him. :o
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Offline q_q_

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2008, 11:12:09 AM »
Most women (well, me, lol) want a man who is

kind,

nod

compassionate,

nod

gentile,

technically you may be correct on that one. But I think you meant gentle!


loving, a leader, will love and adore and protect her no matter what, go to the ends of the earth for her.....be faithful and true, a good provider.....and love G-d with all his heart, mind and sould and love his neighbor as himself...

Well, that's what I want, anyway...

sounds nice

but if he is going to be throwing me around the house <snip>, forget about him. :o

what if he has a good aim, and you land comfortably on a bed or sofa every time?

this is of course the righteous gentle section ;-)

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2008, 11:19:52 AM »
Most women (well, me, lol) want a man who is

kind,

nod

compassionate,

nod

gentile,

technically you may be correct on that one. But I think you meant gentle!


loving, a leader, will love and adore and protect her no matter what, go to the ends of the earth for her.....be faithful and true, a good provider.....and love G-d with all his heart, mind and sould and love his neighbor as himself...

Well, that's what I want, anyway...

sounds nice

but if he is going to be throwing me around the house <snip>, forget about him. :o

what if he has a good aim, and you land comfortably on a bed or sofa every time?

this is of course the righteous gentle section ;-)



 :laugh:

Oh yes, I meant gentle.....

I see what you mean about the sofa/bed, well, that would be ok I guess  :-[ 8;)...... :laugh:

..and I, of course, must worship the ground that he walks on.... ;D which shouldn't be difficult at all if he is the above things I listed.... 8)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 11:57:39 AM by ~Hanna~ »
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Offline Shlomo

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2008, 12:13:36 AM »
And BTW, Where does it say to love your wife as yourself?

Maimonides restated a Talmudic teaching in his monumental code of Jewish law: "The sages commanded that a man must honor his wife more than his own self and love her as himself. If he is wealthy, he should provide her with the best in accordance with his wealth. He should not cause her to fear him, but speak with her gently, not with sadness nor anger.
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Offline q_q_

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2008, 02:12:57 AM »
And BTW, Where does it say to love your wife as yourself?

Maimonides restated a Talmudic teaching in his monumental code of Jewish law: "The sages commanded that a man must honor his wife more than his own self and love her as himself. If he is wealthy, he should provide her with the best in accordance with his wealth. He should not cause her to fear him, but speak with her gently, not with sadness nor anger.

that's good

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2008, 01:00:54 PM »
And BTW, Where does it say to love your wife as yourself?

Maimonides restated a Talmudic teaching in his monumental code of Jewish law: "The sages commanded that a man must honor his wife more than his own self and love her as himself. If he is wealthy, he should provide her with the best in accordance with his wealth. He should not cause her to fear him, but speak with her gently, not with sadness nor anger.

that's good

Yes, very good!!!!
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Offline Roadwarrior

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Re: What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2008, 03:29:58 PM »

philosophical/political compatibility is important