Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Classes about the teachings of Shabbetai Ben Dov. Available only at JTF Forum

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judeanoncapta:
Enjoy, listen carefully. They may save the national life of the Jewish people if understood properly and acted upon

http://www.2shared.com/file/3714131/e8efa287/ShbenDov-Questions-Shemitta-Ephrath-03-01-5768--8-04-2008.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714142/3ea765fa/ShbenDov-1.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714144/d7c4c0cf/ShBenDov-II_p_392-20-13-5768--26-03-2008.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714171/8c836783/ShBenDov-IIp392--20-13-5768-26-02-2008-part_2.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714198/6bdcf2a9/ShbenDov-II-p394-397-01-01-5768--06-04-2008.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714207/28e7ea28/ShbenDov-II-pp394-396-ephrath-03-01-5768-08-04-2008.html


http://www.2shared.com/file/3714213/36911f70/ShbenDov-Intro-1.html

Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Wow, this is awesome.  We are indebted to you judea!  I can't wait to listen to these.... And share them with my friends too hopefully.....

judeanoncapta:
I hope that every Jew hears the voice of Shabbetai Ben Dov loud and clear.

q_q_:
ok.. I searched for Dov to locate this thread.. Got back to it.  I see it was a sticky so I could have found it mroe easily!

I listened to the first one in the list some time ago but it seemed to be in the middle of something.
"ShbenDov-Questions-Shemitta-Ephrath-03-01-5768--8-04-2008.html"


I just listened to ShbenDov-1.mp3  38:38
This one seems to be a beginning.. Maybe the intro was first. But it seems fine.
I absorbed it..

I will post a Concise Summary which I think covers 95% of what he said.

And I will post a more detailed wording of what he said word to hopefully fill some of the remaining 5%.

q_q_:
ShbenDov-1.mp3  38:38


In summary.
SBD wrote around the 50s. He was a lechi activist, so, hands on too. And he wrote alot, a bit repetitive, and requires patience to read.

Rabbi bar Hayyim basically says that Shabbtai Ben Dov wrote about the galut mentality, the phenomena of not wanting sovereignty, and just wanting to keep shabbat (personal mitzvot, but not national mitzvot),  and as long as we are not getting killed, then that's fine.

Note- there could be a slight issue in this analysis...

RBC notes how SBD notes quoting a professor of jewish history(prof yosef klausner, prof jewish history of hebrew univresity.  nationalistic, not religious) , that chazal didn't record that period much, (I presume he tihnks because they just wanted the personal mitzvot, no interest in sovereignty, no interest in fighting), they hid it, so the finger of blame is pointed at them. They are supposed to be the torch bearers of the tradition of the tenach, which records historical facts in detail, and they failed to do this. They intentionally didn't. This was a 500 year period in israel that they missed out intentionally.

But SBD goes further and says  that even the Maccabees themselves, had the same root problem. They reacted not because they wanted sovereignty, not because they wanted to reestablish the davidic monarchy(I suppose appoint a King, enforce all the mitzvot, or anything). The reacted when told to sin or die, to hellenize - offer korbanot-sacrifices, to zeus(or whatever greek G-d no doubt), or die.  Only then did they rise up and fight. (note- The greeks, -They Were Killing Jews, they channah's 7 sons).. 

RBC (presumably from SBD) says that as soon as the harsh conditions were relaxed, the jewish people were happy to stop fighting, and go back to how they were before

As a point of how the jewish peopel really weren't looking for sovereignty, he says that the royal family were in bavel at the time. Quotes from 2 sources, one he doesn't go into but says he will later.

one source
sefer maccabee, hashmonaim or maccabim,  perek yud daled , pasuk mem aleph,.  (14:41 I suppose) 

the other source
SBD quotes gemara yoma dav(daf?) tet gemara
He doesn't go into that and says he will in the next shiur.


in the sefer (ha)maccabee(maccabim?) source, he says it says that (after the revolt) the jewish people assigned  shimon the role/title of nasi, until a real prophet came. So it was a temporary solution no real fundamental effort to change the nature of their reality.  It was reinstating the status quo ante(reality as it was before). from/like, in bavel.

The representatives of the jewish people, - the kohanim, and the royam family, were in bavel, so no serious effort for regaining sovereignty. And althoug hthe term nasi is often interchagneable with melech(king). Here, in these persian(then greek) times, the nasi was more like a political head of the jewish people, represnting the sovereign/occupying forces.


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