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The Three Oaths - Wikipedia

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sstr:
Hello everyone,
The Wikipedia article on the 'Three Oaths' is currently under construction. Thus far there are two Jews working on it: Me, presenting mostly the religious Zionist view, and another Jew, apparently Haredi and strongly anti-Zionist.

As my knowledge regarding this topic is limited and I have next to no access to reliable sources relating to it, I have decided to call on anyone here who is interested in helping out to please sign up on Wikipedia and help us out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Oaths

Note: PLEASE try to remain apolitical. Simply present the positions of other reliable authorities - refrain from original research or your own interpretations.

Thank you.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
I dont know if you have access to Rav Kahane's sefer Or' Harayon Volume 2. He writes a chapter about it (I dont know, but I think its kind of long to write all of it down there).
  Bli Neder, I will try to help out a little, later on, G-d willing. ( I could tell you off the top of my head, but it wouldn't be as professional as needed with the exact sources, etc- But bottom line is that their were Oaths, BUT the nations violated them first, then Rav Kahane brings proof from Tannach for example the case with King David Alav Hashalom, and his battle with Moav and Edom, in Aram Naharia and Aram Tzova (I think thats the place, not sure), where the enemies bring proof that the Torah says not to attack them, and theirs an oath, then King David goes to Sanhedrin and says that they violated the Oath first, thus freeing Israel from their Oath, and then they battle. Same goes with Samson Alav Hashalom, etc.

judeanoncapta:
The Three Oaths were a rhetorical device used by Chazal to try to calm down the rowdy Jews who kept on trying one disastrous revolt after another.

The tragedy is that after 1500 years, it is being used by Jews to advise against the one revolt that actually succeeded.

And the real tragedy is that after 1500 years, the Jewish people with few exceptions have forgotten what Aggadata is and also what the Geulah is.

Lubab:
The three oaths are completely and 100% true for all time. But they do not apply to the Israel situation because Israel did NOT take the land by force, there was no other kingdom there at the time, they merely made a state where there was none and defended themselves  when attacked.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1:

--- Quote from: Lubab on August 12, 2008, 08:13:03 PM ---The three oaths are completely and 100% true for all time. But they do not apply to the Israel situation because Israel did NOT take the land by force, there was no other kingdom there at the time, they merely made a state where there was none and defended themselves  when attacked.


--- End quote ---

 Yes Israel did (justifyably)- their were the British, it was technically (according to international standards their land for the time being). Also before that the land belonged to the Turks. And Israel did take the land by force from them (read history and the underground movements that did the bombings, etc.).
  The oaths say not to rebel, and go up en mass from the nations to the land of Israel, so if you are right then you do not support millions of Jews living in Israel right now, because it is a violation of the oaths. BUT we must also know that the Oaths were violated by the nations, as it says - G-d was a little angry and they abbeted the evil and gave Israel much more persecuation and holocausts then were tolerable, and they broke the agreement first thus freeing Israel from their part.
 - It is basically a contract, Israel -does not rebel agaisn't the nations and does not go up to the Land en mass and by force, and the nations do not persecuate Israel too much. And before anyone asks whats too much, I think it is clear that the Holocaust was wayy and beyond too much and precisly why right afterwards their was a bigger justification of why their had to be a State of Israel (And I also believe that G-d had to show, (or at least tried) the Haredim and those who believed that we cant do anything because of the oaths, that they were/are not in affect anylonger since the nations violated their part.
  This is also the reason why we are in the type of Geula process that we currently are in, becuase since the nations swore that they would not overly burden Israel, and they failed, they cause the end of days to come prematurly, and the salvation comes out of this and not through repentence, which is the process of"In its time" and not "I will hasten it".

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