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Thoughts on Va'etchanan - by Rabbi Shlomo Riskin
TorahZionist:
http://www.mizrachi.org/ideas/recent.asp?id=197
--- Quote ---The Observant Soldier and Disengagement
Harav Shlomo Riskin
...
I am not one of those settlers who believes in Greater Israel or who maintains that the Landof Israelis not ours to give away. Israelhas the right to arrive at decisions regarding borders. After all, did not King Solomon give up 20 cities in the Galileeto King Hiram of Tyre? Did not Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai give up Jerusalemin order to secure from Vespatian the city of Yavnehand its Sanhedrin? Hence, great religio-legal authorities like Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik and Hakham Ovadia have accepted the halachic possibility of the government ceding parts of the Landof Israel.
Moreover, I even believe in a two-state solution. In the Greater Israel model, we would have to give the Palestinians the right to vote, for we could not treat a minority in our state any differently than the way that we wished to be treated when we were a stateless minority. If that were to happen, demography would soon turn Greater Israel into Greater Palestine.
...
--- End quote ---
muman613:
--- Quote from: TorahZionist on August 15, 2008, 05:16:42 AM ---http://www.mizrachi.org/ideas/recent.asp?id=197
--- Quote ---The Observant Soldier and Disengagement
Harav Shlomo Riskin
...
I am not one of those settlers who believes in Greater Israel or who maintains that the Landof Israelis not ours to give away. Israelhas the right to arrive at decisions regarding borders. After all, did not King Solomon give up 20 cities in the Galileeto King Hiram of Tyre? Did not Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai give up Jerusalemin order to secure from Vespatian the city of Yavnehand its Sanhedrin? Hence, great religio-legal authorities like Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik and Hakham Ovadia have accepted the halachic possibility of the government ceding parts of the Landof Israel.
Moreover, I even believe in a two-state solution. In the Greater Israel model, we would have to give the Palestinians the right to vote, for we could not treat a minority in our state any differently than the way that we wished to be treated when we were a stateless minority. If that were to happen, demography would soon turn Greater Israel into Greater Palestine.
...
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Hi TorahZionist,
I read what you are saying and it seems as if he has been slowly moving more and more to the right. I dont really know much about him and maybe he has offended some by some of his earlier statements.
I do still respect him because I too am one whos position has shifted over time. I am a Baal Teshuva who had strayed pretty far from the derech. If you had spoken with me six or seven years ago it would be an entirely different {and confrontational} story. People who knew me back then dont even recognize my political leanings. I am willing to look at what a person is doing now, not what they did before.
I am one who will give the Rabbi the benefit of the doubt. I am even inclined to pick up the phone and ask him point blank where he stands on this issue. My feeling is he is with us in our desire for a strong and Torah observant Israel. If I am wrong I will surely apologize.
Thank you,
muman613
Muck DeFuslims:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 15, 2008, 04:50:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on August 15, 2008, 03:46:03 AM ---Riskin might appear on a list of 'too far right Rabbis compiled by a San Francisco Jewish site, so what ?? Those morons operate under the assumption that surrendering land will bring peace.
As far as this quote (regarding 9/11) goes: "Just as the shofar is a wake-up call, this was too - and to the American government as well. I don’t think that we’ll hear anymore about even-handedness or [Israel’s] overreacting and the like; I think that this will wake everyone up to realize that we must destroy terrorism wherever it rears its ugly head, whatever it takes to do so - otherwise the world will be overtaken by Islamic fundamentalists, by the core of the most evil thing imaginable"...Well, Riskin has definitely been proven wrong about "not hearing about even-handedness or Israel overreacting". Totally wrong.
Here's something else Riskin is wrong about: Riskin says "Only those (referring to 'Palestinian' Arabs) with a vision of peace have a right to a state."
Sorry Rabbi, even peaceful Arabs dont have a right to a state on Jewish land. With all due respect, Riskin is wrong again.
--- End quote ---
The quote about 9/11 was made the day after the Terrorists attacked. I also thought that this would be a wake-up call to America, but apparently losing my brother was not enough. America has a short memory and it is very sad. But I agree with this Rabbi on many points.
Also the quote about the Phalistinkians is not offensive to me. If there are peaceful Arabs then I think they should have a state of their own, but not on Jewish land. I dont know the context of the quote you are making.
I dont want to quarrel with you on this topic. I just ran across his articles on IsraelNationalNew. But I get tired of so many people disparaging Rabbis simply because they dont fully agree with their approach.
All I ask is for some respect for a rabbi who received Shmicha from a knowledgeable Rav.
muman613
PS: According to this Orthodox Ex-Israeli Rabbi Riskin is far to the right of Kahane.
--- Quote ---http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2008/04/shlomo-riskin-bad-moral-luck.html
Well, it is not exactly the bad moral luck of Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, Rabbi of the West Bank settlement of Efrat, to be deeply implicated in the immorality of the settlement enterprise. After all, he chose to leave the United States to lead Efrat – arguably one of the most harmful, and certainly the most hypocritical, of the West Bank settlements. (See my "There are no kosher settlements.") Still, had Rabbi Riskin stayed in the United States, he may have had a pretty decent career as a liberal orthodox rabbi. Riskin was never an intellectual or for that matter, much of a talmid hakham. But he was very good at presenting a liberal version of traditional Judaism back in the late sixties and early seventies, and he was a bridge-builder between various communities, Jewish and non-Jewish, in New York.
But seduced by the dark side of religious Zionism, and driven by the dream of empire-building on cheap land, he emigrated to Israel and founded (with Moshe Moshkowitz) the town of Efrat, a sprawling settlement built entirely on Palestinian private and public land that never ceases to expand into, and pollute, the surrounding region. Through this his life-project, Riskin has caused more tragedy and pain to more Palestinians than any other rabbi of modern times, certainly more than Meir Kahane and his ilk.
--- End quote ---
PS: Sounds like our kind of guy, wouldnt you say?
--- End quote ---
Maybe, but it certainly sounds like the author of this last quote, is a deranged Peace Now, self hating Jew of the worst magnitude. Listen to his language:
"the dark side of religious Zionism" ?
"empire-building on cheap land" ?
"the immorality of the settlement enterprise" ?
"There are no kosher settlements." ?
"built entirely on Palestinian private and public land that never ceases to expand into, and pollute, the surrounding region" ?
"Meir Kahane and his ilk" ?
This is a Rabbi ?
You'll have to excuse me, but this sounds like it was written by a mooozie, and not by a Jew. NK perhaps ? Or Yossi Beilin, or Noam Chomsky ?
You can't take people like this seriously, or use their criticism of Riskin, or opinions of Riskin, as some sort of endorsement that a Kahanist (or any self-respecting) Jew would put any credence into.
Consider the source.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on August 15, 2008, 08:31:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 15, 2008, 04:50:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on August 15, 2008, 03:46:03 AM ---Riskin might appear on a list of 'too far right Rabbis compiled by a San Francisco Jewish site, so what ?? Those morons operate under the assumption that surrendering land will bring peace.
As far as this quote (regarding 9/11) goes: "Just as the shofar is a wake-up call, this was too - and to the American government as well. I don’t think that we’ll hear anymore about even-handedness or [Israel’s] overreacting and the like; I think that this will wake everyone up to realize that we must destroy terrorism wherever it rears its ugly head, whatever it takes to do so - otherwise the world will be overtaken by Islamic fundamentalists, by the core of the most evil thing imaginable"...Well, Riskin has definitely been proven wrong about "not hearing about even-handedness or Israel overreacting". Totally wrong.
Here's something else Riskin is wrong about: Riskin says "Only those (referring to 'Palestinian' Arabs) with a vision of peace have a right to a state."
Sorry Rabbi, even peaceful Arabs dont have a right to a state on Jewish land. With all due respect, Riskin is wrong again.
--- End quote ---
The quote about 9/11 was made the day after the Terrorists attacked. I also thought that this would be a wake-up call to America, but apparently losing my brother was not enough. America has a short memory and it is very sad. But I agree with this Rabbi on many points.
Also the quote about the Phalistinkians is not offensive to me. If there are peaceful Arabs then I think they should have a state of their own, but not on Jewish land. I dont know the context of the quote you are making.
I dont want to quarrel with you on this topic. I just ran across his articles on IsraelNationalNew. But I get tired of so many people disparaging Rabbis simply because they dont fully agree with their approach.
All I ask is for some respect for a rabbi who received Shmicha from a knowledgeable Rav.
muman613
PS: According to this Orthodox Ex-Israeli Rabbi Riskin is far to the right of Kahane.
--- Quote ---http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2008/04/shlomo-riskin-bad-moral-luck.html
Well, it is not exactly the bad moral luck of Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, Rabbi of the West Bank settlement of Efrat, to be deeply implicated in the immorality of the settlement enterprise. After all, he chose to leave the United States to lead Efrat – arguably one of the most harmful, and certainly the most hypocritical, of the West Bank settlements. (See my "There are no kosher settlements.") Still, had Rabbi Riskin stayed in the United States, he may have had a pretty decent career as a liberal orthodox rabbi. Riskin was never an intellectual or for that matter, much of a talmid hakham. But he was very good at presenting a liberal version of traditional Judaism back in the late sixties and early seventies, and he was a bridge-builder between various communities, Jewish and non-Jewish, in New York.
But seduced by the dark side of religious Zionism, and driven by the dream of empire-building on cheap land, he emigrated to Israel and founded (with Moshe Moshkowitz) the town of Efrat, a sprawling settlement built entirely on Palestinian private and public land that never ceases to expand into, and pollute, the surrounding region. Through this his life-project, Riskin has caused more tragedy and pain to more Palestinians than any other rabbi of modern times, certainly more than Meir Kahane and his ilk.
--- End quote ---
PS: Sounds like our kind of guy, wouldnt you say?
--- End quote ---
Maybe, but it certainly sounds like the author of this last quote, is a deranged Peace Now, self hating Jew of the worst magnitude. Listen to his language:
"the dark side of religious Zionism" ?
"empire-building on cheap land" ?
"the immorality of the settlement enterprise" ?
"There are no kosher settlements." ?
"built entirely on Palestinian private and public land that never ceases to expand into, and pollute, the surrounding region" ?
"Meir Kahane and his ilk" ?
This is a Rabbi ?
You'll have to excuse me, but this sounds like it was written by a mooozie, and not by a Jew. NK perhaps ? Or Yossi Beilin, or Noam Chomsky ?
You can't take people like this seriously, or use their criticism of Riskin, or opinions of Riskin, as some sort of endorsement that a Kahanist (or any self-respecting) Jew would put any credence into.
Consider the source.
--- End quote ---
Muck,
Yes, that quote is from a Peace Now kinda Jew, not Rabbi Riskin... See the link @ http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2008/04/shlomo-riskin-bad-moral-luck.html . This is a quote from an opponent of Rabbi Riskin...
I quoted it to prove my point that Rabbi Riskin is strong enough to stand up and settle the land in spite of the negative opinion of settlers.
Thank you,
muman613
Muck DeFuslims:
Yes muman, I know the quote was from a peace now type of Jew.
My point is that you shouldn't read too much into it.
That type of Jew is likely to think Olmert is a hard-liner.
It can't be taken seriously as an endorsement of Riskin's right wing credentials.
Like I said, consider the source.
It is Riskin's own statement concerning peaceful 'Palestinians' having a right to a state that causes me to have concerns about his belief system.
In fairness, even if Riskin believes 'Palestinians' have a right to a state, that doesn't change the fact that he should be credited for whatever good he did in expanding the Jewish presence anywhere in Israel. But that doesn't mean that he should be above criticism if criticism is due.
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