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✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ:
thank you muman, i feel the day the temple mount is rebuilt and stands tall, it will be the day which will signify the victory of good over evil.

my next question is,

Given that the ancient egyption civilization were bad, and did not treat the hebrew kindly. I want to know what are your thoughts about Jews going on tourist visit to egypt,and to have a look at the majestic monuments and all. Is it ok, or not?

muman613:

--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on October 19, 2009, 01:42:21 PM ---thank you muman, i feel the day the temple mount is rebuilt and stands tall, it will be the day which will signify the victory of good over evil.

my next question is,

Given that the ancient egyption civilization were bad, and did not treat the hebrew kindly. I want to know what are your thoughts about Jews going on tourist visit to egypt,and to have a look at the majestic monuments and all. Is it ok, or not?

--- End quote ---

What a great question!!!

Here at my work, in the lunchroom, they advertise for visiting a museum of Egyptian Pharoahs... I find the poster upsetting because it reminds me of the time we were slaves in Egypt. I don't have an interest in ancient Egypt and I think it is a good thing.

Our Torah teaches us that we should not remain angry at Egypt for what happened 1000s of years ago. One of our commandments requires us to treat the stranger with kindness in our land because we were strangers in a strange land ourselves in Egypt.

Also we are permitted to marry Egyptians after the third generation.



--- Quote ---http://www.sichosinenglish.org/cgi-bin/lessons.cgi?date=20082009&d3=1
Negative Mitzvah 55: We are forbidden to reject an Egyptian if he converts to Judaism
Deuteronomy 23:8 "Do not despise an Egyptian because you were a stranger in his land"

The Torah forbids an Egyptian convert from marrying freely into the Jewish people until the third generation.

The hundreds of years of cruel slavery in Egypt affected both nations. Nevertheless, despite the hardships in Egypt, the Torah appreciates that Jacob and his sons were given refuge in Egypt. Also, it was in Egypt that the Jewish people developed into a nation to be chosen by HaShem.

Therefore, we are commanded not to totally reject an Egyptian that converts to Judaism. The third generation of such converts may marry freely among the Jewish people.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---
http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter27.html

 It is forbidden for Jews to have sexual relations with non-Jews, as it says "You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son nor take his daughter for your son"14; the sages extended this prohibition to non-marital relations.e But if they become proselytes we are permitted to marry them. In olden times, when these nations were still identifiable, it was forbidden for a woman to marry any male descendant of an Ammonite or Moabite proselyte, as it says "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter the congregation of Ha-Shem"15; and it was forbidden to marry Egyptian or Edomite proselytes or their children, as it says "[You shall not despise an Edomite, for he is your brother; you shall not despise an Egyptian, for you were a dweller in his land;] the children of the third generation that are born to them may enter the congregation of Ha-Shem".16 Intermarriage with descendants of the Canaanite nations (nesinim) was also rabbinically forbidden.f
--- End quote ---

As a result we should not hold the ancient Egyptian people responsible for what happened back then...

The Egypt which exists today is not really related to the Egyptians of Pharoaic times... Todays Egyptians have opened new wounds with the Jewish people. I do know some Egyptians which I work with {they are Christians} and they are nice people... But I would not visit Egypt today.

✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ:
thank you muman, you make it easy to understand!

I have read that torah prohibit Jews from using/worshipping/having statues/idols or human personifications..etc
Given that children like to play with dolls, will that be against torah for a Jew to allow their child to play with such items?

muman613:

--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on October 20, 2009, 12:45:42 AM ---thank you muman, you make it easy to understand!

I have read that torah prohibit Jews from using/worshipping/having statues/idols or human personifications..etc
Given that children like to play with dolls, will that be against torah for a Jew to allow their child to play with such items?

--- End quote ---

Hello Hindu Zionist,

You have many interesting questions and I hope that I am answering them adequately. I am still learning much but there are many sources which I can access on the internet and books which I read which allow me to answer these questions. Of course I am expressing only my understanding and a competent Rabbi should be consulted with any serious questions.

Regarding Idolatry much has been written by the Jewish sages and Rabbis. Let me first bring down the first two 'commandments' of the 'ten commandments' {I put those words in quotations because we actually call them the Ten Sayings}:


--- Quote ---
2. "I am the Lord, your G-d, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3. You shall not have the gods of others in My presence.    

4. You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness which is in the heavens above, which is on the earth below, or which is in the water beneath the earth.

5. You shall neither prostrate yourself before them nor worship them, for I, the Lord, your G-d, am a zealous G-d, Who visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons, upon the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me,

6. and (I) perform loving kindness to thousands [of generations], to those who love Me and to those who keep My commandments.

--- End quote ---

As you can see, the first command is "I am the L-rd G-d" and the second is "Do not make Idols and worship others".

I don't think that Jewish children today have the inclination to worship plastic or wooden dolls. Our sages have taught that the Jewish people don't understand the nature of idol worship like we did in Biblical times when we frequently engaged in worshiping wood and stone.

Some Rabbis think that Idolatry today is expressed when Jews become so angry that they forget that G-d controls the world... Here is some discussion of this...


--- Quote ---http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5762/yisro.html

Let Us Keep Idolatry Away From Our Homes

This week's reading contains the first time that the Torah prohibits idolatry. The second of the Asseres Hadibros [Ten "Commandments"] states: "You shall have no other gods before Me. Do not represent [such gods] by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land." [Shmos 20: 3-4] This is the first of many varieties of prohibitions in the Torah relating to Avodah Zarah [literally: foreign worship]. The Torah is replete with such warnings.

Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of Tanach is aware that the problem of 'Avodah Zarah' plagued the Jewish people throughout all of their existence -- up until the time that, as recorded in the Talmud [Sanhedrin 64a], the Men of the Great Assembly prayed for the destruction of the desire, the evil inclination (Yetzer HaRah), for Avodah Zarah. In our day and age, it is very difficult for us to contemplate how anyone could be attracted to graven images, never mind going to such extremes as burning their children for the sake of Avodah Zarah. The abominations that were performed in the name of Avodah Zarah are mind boggling to us.

If we wish to understand an inkling of the strength of the natural urge that existed in Biblical times for Avodah Zarah, we should compare it to the urge that exists today for forbidden sexual relations (Arayos). This, it is said, can be a starting point for our imagining the power of the craving for Avodah Zarah in Biblical times.

Given the fact that no such Yetzer HaRah exists today, it would seem that all of the Torah's many prohibitions relating to Avodah Zarah do not really apply to us. We never find ourselves 'tested' in this area.

In so many areas, we can find ourselves 'tested'. Sometimes we find ourselves 'tested' regarding something prohibited on Shabbos. Sometimes we find ourselves tempted with immoral acts. We are constantly tempted with the urge to gossip (Lashon HaRah). We know that we can be tempted regarding monetary prohibitions. But ostensibly, in our lifetime, we are never going to be tempted with any moral dilemma relating to idolatry.
--- End quote ---


I have actually found the answer which a Rabbi gave to a question concerning childrens dolls:


--- Quote ---http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipDate=6/26/2006
Purchasing or Selling Toy Dolls

Is it permissible to buy or sell toy dolls? Halacha forbids making a complete, three-dimensional figure of a human being. Would this prohibition include toy dolls?

Chacham Ovadia Yosef writes in Halichot Olam (vol. 7, p. 281) that purchasing, owning or selling dolls is permissible. He explains that Halacha forbids possessing figures of human beings because they give the appearance of idolatrous articles. When it comes to toy dolls, however, it is clear to all that they serve as toys for children, and are not used as objects of worship. Furthermore, children generally use dolls in a disrespectful manner, throwing them around on the floor, stepping on them, and so on, and therefore they cannot be mistaken for articles of idolatry.

However, if a person receives a trophy with a complete image of a human being, and he wishes to place it on his mantle, this may, indeed, violate the prohibition of possessing images of a human being. One should therefore disfigure the image or remove one of the trophy's body parts, such as an arm or the nose. The Shulchan Aruch rules that the prohibition applies only to complete images of a human being, and therefore once a body part is removed from the trophy one may keep it in his home.

Summary: One may purchase, own or sell toy dolls. Trophies containing a complete image of a human being should not be kept in one's home unless it is somehow disfigured such that it is no longer a complete image.
--- End quote ---

✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ:
Shalom muman,

Is veal kosher?

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