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mord:
MUMAN613 could you shine a little light on this subject http://forward.com/articles/204722/fighting-for-israeli-democracy-atop-a-wedding-cake/
It's from the Forward a guy named Yitzie defending the marriage of the Israeli woman who converted to Islam and married a muslim .The whole article is with the above link
Rather reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church picketing funerals.
Also, it's ironic that Lehava is practicing lashon hara and the sin of publicly embarrassing a fellow Jew (the bride, who is still Jewish by halacha even if she's converted out). Protesting intermarriage is one thing, harassing a specific bride and groom on their wedding day is quite another.
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Matt613 · 1 day ago
I am unclear on the Loshon Ha Ra issue. This woman's behavior is open and notorious. Generally speaking one should not disclose information that is derogatory. Ms. Malka is making no secret of either her conversion or her marriage. The horse has left the barn here, nothing is being disclosed. Its already public knowledge. As to protesting the wedding, not my thing. However if its a non violent protest, they can do it.
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Yitzie · 1 day ago
You seem to be confusing the halacha of Lashon Ha-Ra with the American law of libel and slander. Read the Chafetz Chaim's "Shemirat Ha-Lashon". Then get back to us.
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Matt613 · 1 day ago
No. I am clear that except in certain limited circumstances, true derogatory information should not be disclosed. The problem here is the Ms Malka has disclosed the information. One could argue that since is openly violating Halacha, Loshon Ha Ra does not apply at all. Libel and slander law apply to false statements. So far as I know it is absolutely true Ms. Malka converted to Islam and married a Muslim.
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Yitzie · 1 day ago
You gotta read the Chafetz Chaim. Lashon Ha-ra is Lashon Ha-ra even if it's true. In fact, the Chafetz Chaim says, it can even be lashon ha-ra if it's good.
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Matt613 · 21 hours ago
That's true, but it is not applicable. For example Leah and Rachel are rivals. Same tell Leah that Rachel is beautiful, a true statement. This generates ill will on the part of Leah towards Rachel. The statement Rachel is beautiful would be LH in this circumstance
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Yitzie · 21 hours ago
right, so your whole "open and notorious" thing is simply irrelevant when it comes to halacha. There are other standards and criteria. Zil g'mor.
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Matt613 · 21 hours ago
No. Its a different type of LH
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Babyface613 · 5 hours ago
The Shmirat HaLashon is a mussar sefer. The book to know when one's words are loshon harah is "Chofetz Chaim".
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/204722/fighting-for-israeli-democracy-atop-a-wedding-cake/#ixzz3BiiRtqnh
muman613:
Shalom Mord,
I am not clear what your question is?
A) Concerning whether it is lashon hara?
B) What do I think of the marriage between a Jewess and a muslim?
Clarify, and if I don't see an answer I just may answer both...
mord:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 28, 2014, 06:29:46 PM ---Shalom Mord,
I am not clear what your question is?
A) Concerning whether it is lashon hara?
B) What do I think of the marriage between a Jewess and a muslim?
Clarify, and if I don't see an answer I just may answer both...
--- End quote ---
well basically i think it's absolutely wrong about the intermarriage but mainly is it Lashon hara
Israel Chai:
--- Quote from: mord on August 28, 2014, 07:48:17 PM ---well basically i think it's absolutely wrong about the intermarriage but mainly is it Lashon hara
--- End quote ---
I can say that Rabbi Mizrachi was talking about this same issue and was accused of lashon hara by a member of his lecture audience, because is it not a Jewish woman? I can add to his statement that that logic would mean very silent courtrooms, but he said she's the one that publicized the sin, and if she wants to expose her sins, a Rabbi can call them sins.
muman613:
I did not hear Rabbi Mizrachi on this. But being a rabbi does not entitle one to engage in Lashon Hara. Should he publicize every sin which people he knows, or hears about make? I am not sure what his rationale is.
According to my understanding there are only a few cases where lashon hara is permitted. I assume everyone reading is aware what lashon hara is, the speaking about a Jew in a derogatory manner before other people. From my memory I can say that it is permitted to speak lashon hara about a Jew in order to warn someone from marrying or going into a business deal which could be fraudulent. But I also heard it said that even in this case one should not reveal more than is necessary to avoid the marriage or deal. If a rabbi knows that a Jew is going to murder or harm another Jew then he is obligated to speak up and prevent the murder or harm.
On the topic of intermarriage, which is a very serious issue, I do not know if speaking publicly about it using the names of this couple is permitted or not. Sometimes I wonder whether Rabbi Mizrachi does speak without thinking when he knocks certain Jews for some beliefs, while he has beliefs which are knocked by others. I have seen rabbi encourage marrying Jews without having to call out those who have intermarried. This topic is very upsetting to me personally as most of my family has married out. I hold out hope that some will make teshuva at some point, like I have.
So I don't know the answer to this. I myself try to avoid speaking about 'people' rather I speak about 'ideas' and 'concepts'. This relates to one bit of wisdom my dad (may his spirit go up) which went... Dumb people talk about 'things', average people talk about 'people', and intelligent people talk about 'ideas' and 'concepts'.
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