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[Every Jew AK47]

Heres a more serious question for you Muman..

After Havdalah tonight I listened to a woman scholar and learned some new insight concerning the dynamics between Essau and our father Yaakov. I have the utmost respect for women Torah scholars but I will not recognize them as Rabbis.

If a woman Torah scholar taught you something with such deep knowledge and instructed you, how is she any different than a rabbi?  Isn't it forbidden in Orthodox Judaism to have a woman instruct a man and even read from Torah???  I never knew a halachal woman could read Torah to a Jewish man.  Some Orthodox I talk to told me it was not for a woman to study Torah at all.  That is a new age phenomenon.   If you can please explain I would appreciate it.

[muman613]

Shalom Muman,

My question is, do you think all people who don't like reggae music are stuck up? 

I read your posts and you seem like a great guy.   No hard feelings bro..  I just don't dig reggae..  But, you may think its crazy, the Grateful Dead does have a few good tunes, you said you were a deadhead , right?  I live in Deadhead USA.   Remember how the shows use to clog up the freeways around here.

Anyhow, shalom v'ahava.

Shalom DeathToIslam,

I did not mean to be offensive though I was a bit upset when I posted that comment. I don't think you are 'stuck up' and I understand how reggae can have such a negative impression because it originated in a culture which is hostile towards the Jewish culture. But music itself is neutral and depending on the message can be quite positive and uplifting.

The Dead, The Police, Eric Clapton and other great 70-80s bands performed many songs which can be called Reggae. You know the Deads 'Fire on the Mountain' is considered Reggae.. Eric Claptons "I shot the sheriff" also...

I think I live in DeadHead USA here because I live about 30 minutes north of San Francisco, ground zero of the Dead scene. And it is true that wherever the Dead played there would be huge traffic jams because DeadHeads would travel from the four corners to attend the shows. I traveled only within California , from San Diego in the south to Oakland in the north...

I try not to be a music snob and insist that everyone like the music I like... The only music I am vocally against is Gangsta Rap which is miserable and offensive to whites and used to intimidate. I have stood against Gangsta Rap my entire adult life and have been called a racist because I think that Gangsta Rap is crap music. But I have grown to accept hip-hop, with a Jewish message... This is my personal taste and I don't expect everyone to agree..

[muman613]

Heres a more serious question for you Muman..

After Havdalah tonight I listened to a woman scholar and learned some new insight concerning the dynamics between Essau and our father Yaakov. I have the utmost respect for women Torah scholars but I will not recognize them as Rabbis.

If a woman Torah scholar taught you something with such deep knowledge and instructed you, how is she any different than a rabbi?  Isn't it forbidden in Orthodox Judaism to have a woman instruct a man and even read from Torah???  I never knew a halachal woman could read Torah to a Jewish man.  Some Orthodox I talk to told me it was not for a woman to study Torah at all.  That is a new age phenomenon.   If you can please explain I would appreciate it.

Shalom DeathToIslam,

It is early here and I am still half asleep... So I will not answer this question as fully as I would like at this time... But basically I have not learned that particular halacha... I will look into it.. But what I have learned is that Women can learn Torah, and there is historical precedent that Women have been Torah scholars. I don't think it is a 'new age' thing... Wasn't Deborah , a woman, a Judge and Prophet and her book is included in the Tanach?

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/183,2116044/Deborah-the-Prophetess.html

In Eastern countries, in the days of old, and even nowadays among the Arabs and other backward peoples, women are usually looked down upon by men, and they are often treated not much better than servants or even slaves. This has never been the case in the Jewish family, where the Jewish woman is called "the foundation of the home," because of the many duties she has in keeping a Kosher home, bringing up the children in the Jewish way of life and generally helping create the right "atmosphere" of Torah and Mitzvahs in the Jewish home. Every Friday night, when the men folk come from Shul, finding the table set for the holy Shabbath, with the candles giving a glow of light and warmth throughout the home, the father and the boys sing that well-known hymn "Eishet Chayil", to the Jewish "Woman of Worth," which was composed by King Solomon in the Proverbs. We are proud of the Mothers of our people, and are proud especially of the fact that we had seven women prophetesses, who played an important part in shaping the history, of our people, and who inspire us to this day. One of these seven prophetesses was Deborah, whose story we bring you here, and whose famous "Song of Deborah" we read on the very Shabbath when we read the famous "Song of Moses," which was recited for the first time after the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea.

http://www.torah.org/features/wperspective/greatJewishWomen.html

BRURIAH

Bruriah was a brilliant woman who is said to have learned 300 Jewish laws a day. One of the most famous incidents concerning her is a sad one. Her two sons died on Shabbat, but she did not want to burden her husband Rabbi Meir during the joyous holy day, and so she delayed telling him. After nightfall, she asked him: "Sometime ago I was given something to enjoy, but now the one who gave it to me wants it back. Must I return it?"

Surprised by the simple question, he responded affirmatively. Bruriah showed Rabbi Meir their dead sons. He began to weep and she asked, "Did you not tell me to return what was loaned? G-d gave, and G-d has taken away, blessed is G-d."

...

THE MAID OF LUDMIR

Channa Rachel Werbermacher, who lived in the 19th century, was known as the Maid of Ludmir. She applied herself assiduously from a young age to become well educated in Torah and prayed with unusual devotion.

Once, upon visiting her mother's grave, she collapsed and fell into a coma. She explained to her father that she had visited Heaven and received a new soul. The great Reb Mordechai of Chernobyl substantiated her claim saying, "We do not know whose religious soul is dwelling in this woman." With this recognition, she took on new prominence.

She eventually moved to the Land of Israel, and, together with an elderly kabbalist, was intent on a course of action they understood would bring the Messiah. A meeting was set, but as her partner was leaving his home, a poor wayfarer came to the door asking for food and comfort. The meeting was subsequently missed. Chassidic lore explains that the wayfarer was Elijah the prophet, who interfered because the world was not yet ready for the Messiah.

More references:

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/235,2074748/Why-dont-women-get-called-up-to-the-Torah-in-Orthodox-synagogues.html#articlepage

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/women.htm

Women have held positions of respect in Judaism since biblical times.  Miriam is considered one of the liberators of the people of Israel, along with her brothers Moses and Aaron.  One of the Judges (Deborah) was a woman.  Seven of the 55 prophets of the Bible were women.

The Ten Commandments require respect for both mother and father.  Note that the father comes first in Exodus 20,11, but the mother comes first in Leviticus 19,3.

There were many learned women of note.  The Talmud and later rabbinical writings speak of the wisdom of Berurya, the wife of Rabbi Meir.  In several instances, her opinions on halakhah (Jewish Law) were accepted over those of her male contemporaries.  In the ketubah (marriage contract) of Rabbi Akiba's son, the wife is obligated to teach the husband Torah!  Many rabbis over the centuries have been known to consult their wives on matters of Jewish law relating to the woman's role, such as laws of kashrut and women's periods.  The wife of a rabbi is referred to as a rebbetzin, practically a title of her own, which should give some idea of her significance in Jewish life.

There can be no doubt, however, that the Talmud also has many negative things to say about women.  Various rabbis at various times describe women as lazy, jealous, vain and gluttonous, prone to gossip and particularly prone to the occult and witchcraft.  Men are repeatedly advised against associating with women, although that is as much because of man's lust as it is because of any shortcoming in women.  Women are discouraged from pursuing higher education or religious pursuits, but this seems to be primarily because women who engage in such pursuits might neglect their primary duties as wives and mothers.  The rabbis are not concerned that women are not spiritual enough, but rather are concerned that women might become too spiritually devoted.

The rights of women in traditional Judaism are much greater than they were in the rest of Western civilization until this century.  Women had the right to buy, sell, and own property, and make their own contracts, rights which women in Christian countries (including the USA) did not have until about 100 years ago.  In fact, Proverbs 31,10-31, which is read at Jewish weddings, speaks repeatedly of business acumen as a trait to be prized in women (v.  11, 13, 16, and 18 especially).

[Irish Zionist]

Muman whats The Jewish forum of Hell like compared to The Christian one? Do you have a devil? Another thing, do Jews believe in Saints and if so can you name some of the most important?
Thanks.

[Every Jew AK47]

Thanks for your response Muman..  I will have to investigate it.  The  topic on women Torah teachers/scholars has been very confusing for me. 

Shalom

[muman613]

Muman whats The Jewish forum of Hell like compared to The Christian one? Do you have a devil? Another thing, do Jews believe in Saints and if so can you name some of the most important?
Thanks.

This is another complex theological question.... Jewish scripture doesnt explain much about this but I will try to explain what I have learned.

Jews call 'hell' Gehinnom, or purgatory... It is a punishment for the soul, after the body has died, and it is a sentence which is commensurate with the violation of Mitzvahs we did during our lifetime. The simple understanding is that our souls are judged on the day we die and our good deeds are weighed against our bad deeds, and if our bad deeds outweigh the good then we need a 'soul correction' in Gehinnom.

For the normal Jew who only transgresses because of ignorance or because of weaknesses beyond his control will only be 'sentenced' to up to a year in Gehinnom, after which time their souls are cleansed and they are admitted to Gan Eden {Paradies or Heaven in Christianity}. There are seven levels of Gehinnom and the most wicked and vile souls are sentenced to eternal burning in the pits of Gehinnom.

But the understanding of the process of how souls are rebirthed is not entirely clear. There is also a Jewish concept which is similar to reincarnation, where souls are allowed another chance in the physical world and these souls must complete their mission in this world. This explanation is used to explain why children suffer and die, because their souls have completed their missions and they are allowed eternal rest in Paradise.

In general we refer to the other world as Olam Haba, and this world as Olam Hazeh...  Judaism has always stressed that This World is the important world, it is the world of action... The soul can do no improvement in the next world... All the work needs to be done by our own effort, to rectify our souls, and earn the reward for Olam Haba, the world of being...


References:

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=680

Gehinnom is the name given to Hell in the Rabbinic literature. The name was borrowed from that of a real valley (see Joshua 15:2,8 and 18:16; 2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chron.28:3 and 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 19:2,6; Nehemiah 11:30) where burnings took place. See also Isaiah 30:33; Jeremiah 19:11-13; Job 17:6. Punishment in Gehinnom lasts only for up to 12 months, except for certain major sinners. Isaiah 66:24 must be referring to it when he speaks of the fire that is not extinguished.

http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/10797/jewish/Gehinnom.htm

Gehinnom: purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

http://www.judaism.org/index.php?p=994

Do we as Jews believe in Hell? If so what would someone do to deserve a place in hell?

Hell, yes.

Well, sort of…

...you see, it’s nothing like the images we probably have of it, fashioned from TV evangelists and B horror movies. There’s no devil, and perhaps even no recognizable physical existence.

Rather, it is a place (called “Gehinnom” in Hebrew) where the soul is exposed to the reality of everything that it did in this world, while simultaneously being shown the potential that it possessed to achieve. All the facts are laid on the table in a manner which is irrefutable and undeniable. The principal punishment of Gehinnom is the inescapable pain of regret for wasting or even abusing one’s potential and thus not achieving what one could have achieved.

Gehinnom is a cleansing process for the soul to enable it to eventually enter the World To Come. Some souls are able to enter the World To Come without experiencing Gehinnom, either because of their lofty achievements in this world or because they already experienced all their suffering there (or a combination of both). For those who have to go to Gehinnom, the cleansing process is usually completed in eleven or twelve months. On rare occasion, for people who did terrible evil in their lifetimes, causing many to suffer, Gehinnom can take much longer. For example, the Talmud states that Titus Andronicus, the Roman general who destroyed Jerusalem and the second Temple in 70 ACE, is still in Gehinnom .

Only G-d, with His infinite knowledge and wisdom, can judge who does or does not deserve Gehinnom and how long their stay there must last. But it is obvious, from our human perspective, that by studying and fulfilling the Torah as much as we can, we move ourselves away from the judgment of Gehinnom.

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Gan Eden and Gehinnom

The place of spiritual reward for the righteous is often referred to in Hebrew as Gan Eden (GAHN ehy-DEHN) (the Garden of Eden). This is not the same place where Adam and Eve were; it is a place of spiritual perfection. Specific descriptions of it vary widely from one source to another. One source says that the peace that one feels when one experiences Shabbat properly is merely one-sixtieth of the pleasure of the afterlife. Other sources compare the bliss of the afterlife to the joy of sex or the warmth of a sunny day. Ultimately, though, the living can no more understand the nature of this place than the blind can understand color.

Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

This 12-month limit is repeated in many places in the Talmud, and it is connected to the mourning cycles and the recitation of Kaddish. See Life, Death and Mourning.

[muman613]

This article from Chabad does a good job of explaining the Jewish view on this topic:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm

What is Heaven and Hell?

Heaven and hell is where the soul receives its punishment and reward after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the "Thirteen Principles" of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different "heaven" and "hell" than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.

After death, the soul returns to its Divine Source, together with all the G-dliness it has "extracted" from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.

This pleasure and pain are not reward and punishment in the conventional sense--in the sense that we might punish a criminal by sending him to jail or reward a dedicated employee with a raise. It is rather that we experience our own life in its reality--a reality from which we were sheltered during our physical lifetimes. We experience the true import and effect of our actions. Turning up the volume on that TV set with that symphony orchestra can be intensely pleasurable or intensely painful,8--depending on how we played the music of our lives.

When the soul departs from the body, it stands before the Heavenly Court to give a "judgment and accounting" of its earthly life.9 But the Heavenly Court only does the "accounting" part; the "judgment" part--that only the soul itself can do.10 Only the soul can pass judgment on itself--only it can know and sense the true extent of what it accomplished, or neglected to accomplish, in the course of its physical life. Freed from the limitations and concealments of the physical state, it can now see G-dliness; it can now look back at its own life and experience what it truly was. The soul's experience of the G-dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the "Garden of Eden"--i.e., Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinom ("Gehenna" or "Purgatory").

The truth hurts. The truth also cleanses and heals. The spiritual pain of gehinom--the soul's pain in facing the truth of its life--cleanses and heals the soul of the spiritual stains and blemishes that its failings and misdeeds have attached to it. Freed of this husk of negativity, the soul is now able to fully enjoy the immeasurable good that its life engendered and "bask in the Divine radiance" emitted by the G-dliness it brought into the world.

For a G-dly soul spawns far more good in its lifetime than evil. The core of the soul is unadulterated goodness; the good we accomplish is infinite, the evil but shallow and superficial. So even the most wicked of souls, say our sages, experiences, at most, twelve months of gehinom, followed by an eternity of heaven. Furthermore, a soul's experience of gehinom can be mitigated by the action of his or her children and loved ones, here on earth. Reciting Kaddish and engaging in other good deeds "in merit of" and "for the elevation of" the departed soul means that the soul, in effect, is continuing to act positively upon the physical world, thereby adding to the goodness of its physical lifetime.11

The soul, on its part, remains involved in the lives of those it leaves behind when it departs physical life. The soul of a parent continues to watch over the lives of his/her children and grandchildren, to derive pride (or pain) from their deeds and accomplishments, and to intercede on their behalf before the Heavenly Throne; the same applies to those to whom a soul was connected with bonds of love, friendship and community. In fact, because the soul is no longer constricted by the limitations of the physical state, its relationship with its loved ones is, in many ways, even deeper and more meaningful than before.

However, while the departed soul is aware and cognizant of all that transpires in the lives of its loved ones, the souls remaining in the physical word are limited to what they can perceive via the five senses as facilitated by their physical bodies. We can impact the soul of a departed loved one through our positive actions, but we cannot communicate with it through conventional means (speech, sight, physical contact, etc.) that, prior to its passing, defined the way that we related to each other. (Indeed, the Torah expressly forbids the idolatrous practices of necromancy, mediumism and similar attempts to "make contact" with the world of the dead.) Hence the occurrence of death, while signifying an elevation for the soul of the departed, is experienced as a tragic loss for those it leaves behind.

Reincarnation: A Second Go

Each individual soul is dispatched to the physical world with its own individualized mission to accomplish. As Jews, we all have the same Torah with the same 613 mitzvot; but each of us has his or her own set of challenges, distinct talents and capabilities, and particular mitzvot which form the crux of his or her mission in life.

At times, a soul may not conclude its mission in a single lifetime. In such cases, it returns to earth for a "second go" to complete the job. This is the concept of gilgul neshamot--commonly referred to as "reincarnation"--extensively discussed in the teachings of Kabbalah.12 This is why we often find ourselves powerfully drawn to a particular mitzvah or cause and make it the focus of our lives, dedicating to it a seemingly disproportionate part of our time and energy: it is our soul gravitating to the "missing pieces" of its Divinely-ordained purpose.13

The World to Come

Just as the individual soul passes through three stages--preparation for its mission, the mission itself, and the subsequent phase of satisfaction and reward--so, too, does Creation as a whole. A chain of spiritual "worlds" precede the physical reality, to serve it as a source of Divine vitality and empowerment. Then comes the era of Olam HaZeh ("This World") in which the Divine purpose of creation is played out. Finally, once humanity as a whole has completed its mission of making the physical world a "dwelling place for G-d," comes the era of universal reward--the World to Come (Olam HaBa).

There is a major difference between a soul's individual "world of reward" in Gan Eden and the universal reward of the World to Come. Gan Eden is a spiritual world, inhabited by souls without physical bodies; the World to Come is a physical world, inhabited by souls with physical bodies14 (though the very nature of the physical will undergo a fundamental transformation, as per below).

In the World to Come, the physical reality will so perfectly "house" and reflect the Divine reality that it will transcend the finitude and temporality which define it today. Thus, while in today's imperfect world the soul can only experience "reward" after it departs from the body and physical life, in the World to Come, the soul and body will be reunited, and will together enjoy the fruits of their labor. Thus the prophets of Israel spoke of a time when all who died will be restored to life: their bodies will be regenerated15 and their souls restored to their bodies. "Death will be eradicated forever"16 and 'the world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the water covers the sea."17

This, of course, will spell the end of the "Era of Achievement."18 The veil of physicality, rarified to complete transparency, will no longer conceal the truth of G-d, but will rather express it and reveal it in an even more profound way than the most lofty spiritual reality. Goodness and G-dliness will cease to be something we do and achieve, for it will be what we are. Yet our experience of goodness will be absolute. Body and soul both, reunited as they were before they were separated by death, will inhabit all the good that we accomplished with our freely chosen actions in the challenges and concealments of physical life.

[muman613]

Regarding 'Saints'.... We don't have such a concept as someone formally called a Saint...

I believe the idea for saints was taken from the Jewish idea of a Tzadik, or a completely righteous person. Many Jewish Tzadiks are 'saintly' or 'holy' individuals. There are many stories of great Jewish Tzadiks, but as I said the title is not official and there is no 'beatification' process or nomination for being a tzadik. Generally a person is a Tzadik if they live their lives according to Torah, are kind to their neighbors and treats people with respect and studies Torah.

http://www.inner.org/glossary/gloss_t.htm#Tzadik ("Righteous"

Tzadik ("Righteous" person; pl. Tzadikim):
    A tzadik is someone who has succeeded in fully overcoming the evil inclination of his animal soul (and has converted its potential into good) and who dedicates himself to spiritually elevating his people.
     
    There are in general three levels of the tzadik:
     
    1. A "complete tzadik" (tzadik gamur) who not only vanquishes in full his innate evil inclination, but even transforms it into good (for which reason he is referred to as tzadik v'tov lo," a tzadik who possesses only good).
 
    2. An "incomplete tzadik" (tzadik she'eino gamur) who has not yet completed the task of vanquishing his evil inclination, though he has mineralized it in essence (for which reason he is called a tzadik v'ra lo," a tzadik who [still] possesses [a bit of] evil).
 
    3. A "relative tzadik" (tzadik b'shem hamushal, or tzadik b'din) whose merits exceed his liabilities (see Tanya, chapt. 1).

Here is an example of what a true Jewish tzadik must master before being considered a full tzadik:

http://www.613.org/hasidism/07.htm

Lesson Seven - The Soul and Body of a Tzadik

 The Tzadik first subdues and then entirely redirects his nefesh habahamis and only at the highest spiritual levels turns his body into a shining light thus uniting body and soul.

The physical soul primarily seeks selfish pleasure.  The Tzadik struggles with those desires, and develops a hatred for the hedonistic attitude.  The nefesh habahamis is said to receive its nourishment from the Sitra Achra literally the “Other side.”  The material, mundane, and sinful are all part of the non-saintly domain.  This area is called Sitra Achra because like two sides of a sharp divide, one can only stand in one side.  It is impossible to straddle the fence and place one’s feet in both areas.  Holiness is one world, material pleasure is a different one.  To achieve sanctity materialism must be eschewed.  The Tzadik is on the side of the saintly, he therefore totally rejects materialism and finds it revolting.[1]  Tzadikim completely rid themselves of the external, physical perspective.   

Rabbi Isaak of Kamarna[2] related that his entire life, starting from age nine, when he would see a woman, he would immediately see the name of G-d of aleph, dalet, nun, yud, which is the Godly manifestation that gives life to the feminine.

 Evidently, he had suppressed his nefesh habahamis, abhorred its lusts and dictates, and eventually rid himself of lustful desires and therefore constantly found Heavenly displays in all physical sights.[3]

After the Tzadik truly abhors physical pleasure his nefesh habahamis transforms and he finds Torah and Mitzvos appealing, exciting, and delightful in a physical manner.  He feels the infinite pleasure that can be accessed within the performance of Mitzvos, experience of genuine tefillah - prayer, and the joy of comprehending the Divine through Torah thought.[4]

I will give a list of some Jewish Tzadiks:

Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev
http://www.inner.org/spiritual-masters/levi-yitzchak-berditchev/levi-yitzchak-berditchev-1.php

The 25th of Tishrei is the yahrzeit—the day of passing and ascent into heaven—of Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev (1740-1810). Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev is best known as the advocate of the Jewish people (sanegoran shel Yisra'el). He is famous for his ability to find the positive point in every Jew and in advocating in favor of the Jewish people as a whole in front of the Almighty and His Heavenly tribunal.

[muman613]

Here is more about saints...


http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/man-self-development-commitment/

5. What is the Jewish concept of the Sinner and the Saint?

    Sin & Saintliness do not exist in Judaism. These are Christian concepts. Judaism has a whole range of words to describe spiritual negativity עבירה, חטא, טומאה,  among others. For us negative and positive spirituality exist on a gradient and cannot be contained by one word. The commonly used word however is עבירה (avayra) which literally means to pass over - i.e. to pass over the opportunity to do G-d’s will. This is also called a חטא, a lack, which means that we have failed to actualize our spiritual potential either by failing to do something or by doing something positively bad.

    So too there are no saints in Judaism [3]
, although there are righteous men and women. These צדיקים are your common man who through working on their characters became holy. No titles are ever given out or awards made. In fact the surest disqualification for the name Tzadik is someone who is trying to consciously acquire the name.

    A (righteous person) צדיק, like you and me continues to struggle with himself, to work on himself, and to grow forward. His greatness lies not so much in the heroic act as in the daily standards of excellence he applies to his life. We all are capable of being heroes, we hope, when it comes to the unusual, to the little old lady who fell down in the street. But real Jewish heroism is expressed in the little act, not as Napoleon on his white horse. At first glance the Jewish righteous man appears to be doing the same thing as everyone else - he tries to give, to be friendly and warm, to pray meaningfully and to keep the mitzvos (commandments). Like the (righteous person) צדיק, we all try to smile at our fellow man and to pray to G-d. The difference between the (righteous person) צדיק and every-man is that whereas we sometimes get it right and sometimes don’t, whereas we sometimes let our moods or simply lack or awareness get in the way, the צדיק (righteous person) manages an amazing consistency. We all have that great pray now and then - the צדיק does it every day. We all occasionally access the inner essence of our souls, overcome our desire to overeat or not get out of bed - we are all heroes some of the time. The צדיק is a hero every day.

[Christian Zionist]

Shalom Muman!

How popular is Menachim Meiri's interpretation of Halacha in the Orthodox community?

Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator who qualified Christians as righteous gentiles, didn't he?

Thanks!

CZ

[muman613]

Shalom Muman!

How popular is Menachim Meiri's interpretation of Halacha in the Orthodox community?

Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator who qualified Christians as righteous gentiles, didn't he?

Thanks!

CZ

Shalom CZ,

Good question... Until you mentioned this sage I had no idea who he was.... Here is what I can find out about him:

http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/meiri.htm
Rabbi Menachem ben Solomon Meiri
(1249-1316)

Rabbi Menachem ben Solomon Meiri was a Provincial scholar and commentator of the Talmud. He summarized the teachings of his predecessors of the previous three centuries. His literary activity covered halachic rulings, talmudic exposition, biblical thought, customs, ethics, and philosophy. Meiri summarized the subject matter of the Talmud giving both the meaning and the halacha derived from it. He utilized all the rabbinic literature available to him, so that his work may be considered a digest which gives a synoptic and comprehensive presentation of the whole expository and halachic activity up to his own time.

It appears he lived during some very interesting times for the Jewish people. He lived during the seventh through the ninth Crusades {according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades }. If what you are saying is true it would make him such a Saint I cannot imagine...

What I do see is that Rabbi Meiri says that those who obey the Seven Noachide laws are considered Righteous Gentiles which is a basic Jewish belief... The Gentile nations are considered righteous if they obey these seven basic laws...

http://www.ots.org.il/Parasha/5763/vaetchanan63.htm
Our prophets never demanded universal conversion to Judaism. Indeed, the prophet Micah describes the “end of times” as a period when “nation will not lift up sword against nation and humanity will not learn war anymore… for all the peoples will go forth each person in the name of his/her G-d, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our G-d forever”(Micha 4:3-5). What the Torah does demand of us is to influence humanity to convert to the seven Noahide commands (Not to murder, Not to steal,Not to commit adultery, Not to eat the limb of a living animal, Not to blaspheme G-d, Not to serve idols, and to establish a Judicial System -Maimonides, Laws of Kings, Chapter 8). The prohibition against idolatry,at least according to the great Sage and decisor Rav Menachem Meiri, is not a theological statement but is rather a morality statement - against the wicked, despotic and heinous actions performed by the idolaters(Jacob Katz, Exclusivism and Tolerance , Chapter on the Meiri). And so King Solomon, when he dedicates the Holy Temple, asks the Almighty to accept the offerings of the Gentile (Kings 1,8:41-43), and this is accepted Talmudic law (B.T. Menahot 73b, Hullin 13b, Zevahim 45a).

Once again Idolatry is expressly forbidden and it should be clear that from a Jewish perspective those who follow Christianity can be considered Idolators. But as I said before the Jewish view is that non-Jews who obey the Seven Noachide laws, which establish moral codes, are counted amongst the righteous of this world and have a place in the world to come...

References:

http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5765/vaetchanan65/specialfeatures_jewishlaw.htm

Rabbi Meiris Channukah Halachic decision

http://vbm-torah.org/archive/moadim69/10-69moed.htm
The Gemara, however, refutes Ravina’s inference, and the Rishonim disagree as to whether the halakha nevertheless follows Ravina.  Many, including the Rif and the Rambam, omit this height requirement entirely.  Rabbi Menachem Meiri (Provence; 1249 –1310) goes even further, claiming that one should actually light the Chanuka candles higher than ten tefachim, in order to maximize the pirsumei nisa.  Furthermore, the Ritva (21b) observes the common practice to light above ten tefachim, possibly because people generally lit inside, and therefore the halakhic details intended to increase pirsumei nisa are not applicable (see also Mordechai, Shabbat 266).  Others, however, cite Ravina’s ruling, and hold that preferably the lights should be situated below the height of ten tefachim.

http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/how-not-make-halakhic-rulings
The third approach sees a change in the actual status of Christianity. The fourteenth century Provençal authority, R. Menachem Meiri, creates a new distinction between nations that are law abiding and those that are not, i.e. that have positive ethical values, and a legal system to enforce them, and those that do not. He describes the idolatrous nations to which he believes the Talmud is referring as follows (Beit ha-Behirah, Avodah Zarah, ed. A. Sofer, Jerusalem 1944, p.48, of pp. 3.28, 33, 46, 53):

They are polluted in their practices and disgusting in their moral traits... But the other nations which are law-abiding, and which are free of these disgusting moral traits and, moreover, punish people with these traits - there is no doubt that these laws do not apply to them at all.

Thus, while for Maimonides, for example, it is the object of worship, the theology, that defines worship as idolatrous, for Meiri it is the life style that is the deciding factor (see M. Halbertal and Avishai Margalit, Idolatry, Cambridge Mass., 1992, pp.212-213;Y. Katz, Zion 1953. pp.15-30 etc.). Hence, according to the Meiri there should be no prohibition to entering into a church, and certainly not an Episcopalian one which is virtually bereft of images.

Furthermore, there are differences of opinion among the early authorities as to whether trinitarianism is forbidden to gentiles. Clearly Jews are not permitted to believe in any form of "partnership" (shituf) between G-d and other divine entities. Our G-d is a single unitary G-d. But are gentiles permitted to believe that alongside G-d there are other (subservient ? related?) divinities? Maimonides clearly is of the opinion that this is absolutely forbidden for gentiles too, since this is real idolatry, (Hilkhot Avodah Zarah chapters 1, 2).

[Boyana]

Shalom Muman,

What is Lashon Hara?I know it is jewish law of telling gossip?
But is it gossip,say I talk to my mother(she likes to know just everything,no escape)and I may say
something about somebody negative?
Regards

[Christian Zionist]

Shalom Muman!

How popular is Menachim Meiri's interpretation of Halacha in the Orthodox community?

Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator who qualified Christians as righteous gentiles, didn't he?

Thanks!

CZ

Shalom Muman!

Can you please review this website and get back to me?

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/meiri.cfm

From what I understand Menachem Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator to give "righteous gentile"  status for Christians and stated that Christians also can go to heaven.

Thanks!

CZ

[muman613]

Shalom Muman!

How popular is Menachim Meiri's interpretation of Halacha in the Orthodox community?

Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator who qualified Christians as righteous gentiles, didn't he?

Thanks!

CZ

Shalom Muman!

Can you please review this website and get back to me?

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/meiri.cfm

From what I understand Menachem Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator to give "righteous gentile"  status for Christians and stated that Christians also can go to heaven.

Thanks!

CZ

Hello CZ,

My initial impression of that site is that it is not kosher. The whole 'mission statement' of that website is to discredit creationism, and religious apologetics {whatever that means}

TalkReason provides a forum for the publication of papers with well-thought out arguments against creationism, intelligent design, and religious apologetics.

Secondly some of the representations of the facts concerning the Mishnahs of the Talmud which I wanted to investigate were wrong. They did not properly attribute the quotations and the footnotes do not contain the tractate which it is supposedly quoted from.

I had questions about one of the supposed facts which claimed that a Jewess cannot breastfeed a gentile baby.... I have learned a Midrash which says that Sarah Immeinu {our mother} infact breastfeed many gentile babies after Yitzak was born. This is used as one explanation why non-Jews may want to convert to Judaism, because their souls descended from those who breastfed from Sarah.

I have already expressed my opinion of Rabbi Meiri's position. But I believe that in general the reasons for the Talmud discussing one opinion and another doesn't necessarily mean that this is the Halacha. Halacha is determined on a case by case basis and some of what is mentioned in that article is simply a misrepresentation of what Halachas I know {admittedly not a whole lot in the big picture}.


PS: I have never heard it said that Christians dont go to heaven... But the issue of idolatry and false worship is a major issue in the Torah... Ultimately Hashem will judge each case individually.

[Rubystars]

PS: I have never heard it said that Christians dont go to heaven... But the issue of idolatry and false worship is a major issue in the Torah... Ultimately Hashem will judge each case individually.

I don't even think all "Christians" are going to heaven. There is a concept in Christianity called the visible church and invisible church. The visible church includes all people who claim Christianity, including such horrible people as Barack Hussein Obama, Bill Clinton, Al Sharpton, etc. Of course the visible church would also include all the good people who openly claim Christianity.

There is also the concept of the invisible church. The invisible church are what would be considered "true Christians", in the eyes of God. They are the ones who are true to the faith and follow God's commandments and truly love God.

It's sometimes not easy to tell who is part of this invisible church, because it's invisible, only God truly knows people's hearts. Someone who looks very pious and loving could in his or her heart totally reject God. On the other hand, sometimes it's very easy to tell when someone is not part of it.

This is what we often mean when we say that someone like Obama is not a "real Christian". He couldn't be, with his horrible beliefs.

[Christian Zionist]

Shalom Muman!    What prompted to do research in this subject is the posting by a former member of this forum - Kahaneloyalist.

He criticized Chaim for following Meiri's "liberal" interpretation and calling Christians as righteous gentiles.

On a separate note:

How do modern day Jews practice tithing?

Under the law of Moses Jews paid tithes (only in the form of food and cattle) to the Levites and the Levites in turn gave 10% of the 10% they received to the Aaronic priests.   There were other forms of tithes practiced as well, like the tithes during the festivals and the tithes of the poor.

What does the Talmud teach about tithing?

Toda Rabba!

CZ

[pennyjangle]

Have you ever been to Israel and or are you planning to move there?

[pennyjangle]

Did I asked the wrong question?

[muman613]

Did I asked the wrong question?

Hi Pennyjangle,

Of course not... I have not been answering these questions because I have been busy with things... I certainly intend on answering each and every one, as a matter of fact I have been researching some of these topics, including the story of the fall of Jericho, and the Jewish belief in Maaser {or tithing}...

I do not currently live in Israel though it is a dream of mine... One day I will be there...

[TruthSpreader]

Dear Muman, do you yearn to see an Arab-free Israel and an Israel from the Nile to the Euprhates?

[muman613]

Dear Muman, do you yearn to see an Arab-free Israel and an Israel from the Nile to the Euprhates?

Of course I do!

The real question is how we will accomplish this. In this complex world we live in it will be very difficult. But I have faith in Hashem, and in his promise to the Jewish people. Hashem has a long range view of history and he can wait for us to return to him. There is a belief in Judaism that the Moshiach {Annointed/Redeemer} will come either one of two ways.

The Moshiach can be sent to the world when all the Jewish people unite and set out on the mission Hashem sent us here to accomplish, i.e. to be a light unto the nations to spread righteousness and justice to the world. If we can accomplish this then we will merit the coming of Moshiach and he will bring all the Jews to the Holy Land, he will facilitate the rebuilding of the Holy Beit HaMikdash {The Temple}, and the nations will see that the Jewish people were correct about their relationship with HaKodesh Baruch Hu{The Holy One Blessed is His Name}.

The second way that this will happen is the nightmare scenario which the Christians believe in, although we call it the War of Gog And Magog { http://www.torahohr.net/gogumagog/ } and the Christians call it Armageddon {Literally the Mountain of Megiddo http://ohr.edu/tw/weinbach/loveland/lland071.htm } . In this scenario the Jewish people fall to a very low spiritual level, once again to the 49th level of impurity.... If this happens Hashem will have no other choice but to send the redeemer. There will be a mighty war and all the evil in the world will be destroyed... The righteous will merit seeing the Messianic era and the rebuilding of the Temple.

Every day I pray to Hashem, with sincere intention, that we merit the first method of bringing rectification to this world. But the cynic in me begins to think that the only way to see this promise of Hashem come to fruition will be through the second way. The march to war seems unavoidable. It is only because of the stubbornness of the nations and their contempt for righteousness and justice that Israel is not a truly Jewish nation, a nation which obeys the commands of the Torah.

So I hope this answers your question...

Thank you,
muman613
 

[Irish Zionist]

Shalom Muman,
Why do The Jewish People not use electricity on Shabbat?
Since electricity wasn't around in the Time of Moses, who came up with this idea?

[muman613]

Shalom Muman,
Why do The Jewish People not use electricity on Shabbat?
Since electricity wasn't around in the Time of Moses, who came up with this idea?

Good Morning IZ,

This is an easy one.... There are 39 categories of prohibited forms of labor which we refrain from doing on Shabbat. One of these prohibited labors is called 'burning'. Burning involves either lighting or extinguishing a fire. Now you mention that electricity was not around at the time of the giving of the commandments, this is true, but the prohibited forms of labor extended to anything which resembles the prohibited labor. Electricity is seen as a form of fire since it provides both heat and light like a fire does. This 'Melacha' {form of prohibited labor} is also the reason we cannot drive a car since the car 'burns' the gasoline fuel.

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/283/Q2/

Matt from Teaneck, New Jersey wrote:

    Dear Rabbi,

    I live in a Jewish town and go to a Jewish school where we study Torah daily. However, I'm still not sure as to the laws of Shabbat relating to my daily life. My friend said that if you have good intentions and stay home and rest but still use electricity that is still observing the Shabbat but I have trouble accepting this because it would contradict too many other laws that I observe. I do want to keep the Shabbat but I'm not sure how.

Dear Matt,

The Torah tells us not to do "melacha" on Shabbat. Melacha is sometimes defined as "work," but that's not a good definition. What is melacha?

Melacha means "creative act." By refraining from creative acts, we recognize G-d as the Ultimate Creator.

Melacha is any act which represents the uniquely human ability to put our intellect to work and shape the environment. Thus, switching on a light is a melacha. Among other things, it can be considered "building" a circuit.

Specifically, a melacha is anything that fits into one of 39 categories of activities listed in Tractate Shabbat page 73a. This list includes activities such as seeding, uprooting, building, writing and burning.

I recommend the following books to start: Shabbos: Day of Eternity by Aryeh Kaplan.(available at http://www.artscroll.com/ohrsomayach/), The Shabbat by Dayan Isadore Grunfield, 39 Avoth Melacha of Shabbath by Rabbi Baruch Chait; illustrated by Yoni Gerstein, and The 39 Melochos by Rabbi Dovid Ribiat (all available at http://www59.hway.net/feldhe/cgi-local/affiliate.cgi?ID=OhrSomayach&URL=/), and

The 39 Melachot Prohibited on Shabbat

   In prohibiting work on the Shabbat the Torah does not use the term "avodah" (labor) as it does regarding the work of the Jews during their enslavement in Egypt. The use of the term "avodah" would imply that physical exertion is prohibited, and would be similar to the scientific definition of work (Work = Force X Displacement). The term used in the context of Shabbat is "melacha", which implies a more subtle definition of work, similar to its use in regards to the building of the Mishkan (Tabernacle), where "melacha" actually means "skillful, constructive activities".
The Torah juxtaposes the mitzvot of the Mishkan with the prohibition of work on Shabbat, four times. (Shmot 31:13 and 35 Rashi ad loc.; Vayikra 19:30 and 26:2) This juxtaposition implies that the "melachot" of Shabbat are the same activities involved in the construction of the Mishkan. The Oral Law lists 39 major categories of melacha that are forbidden on Shabbat, and points out that this number is alluded to by the fact that the word "melacha" occurs (in its meaning of "work") 39 times in the Bible. (Shabbat 49b) Based on his analysis of the 39 melachot, Rabbi S.R.Hirsch describes a melacha as "an act resulting in a significant increase in the utility of some object" and as "an act that shows human mastery over the world by a constructive exercise of intelligence". Rabbi Hirsch explains that the Torah is teaching us that we are not absolute masters over the world, by restricting our interference with the natural world for one day a week, Shabbat. The melachot all result in a significant increase in the utility of some object (e.g. cooking), thus showing our mastery over the world by a constructive exercise of our intelligence.
(Commentary on Shmot 20:10 and Horeb, also The Sabbath, by Dayan I. Grunfield)

  The following are the major categories of activities that are forbidden on Shabbat by the Torah (avot melachot). Each of the following categories includes other forbidden activities as subcategories (toldot). (The av melacha is boldfaced, and the description of the toldot follows.) For instance the prohibition of "sowing", not only prohibits actually planting a seed or a sapling, but also includes irrigation, pruning, moving a plant into the sunlight, and anything that causes the plant to grow.

1. Sowing: anything that encourages growth of plants
2. Ploughing: improving soil for agricultural purposes
3. Harvesting: removing produce from its source of sustenance or place of growth
4. Making sheaves: gathering agricultural produce from its place of growth
5. Threshing: extracting of "food" from its "husk"
6. Winnowing: separating of "food" from its "husks" using wind
7. Selecting: removing "waste" from "food"
8. Grinding: making large particles into small particles by grinding or chopping
9. Sifting: separating fine and coarse particles using a sieve
10. Kneading: combining solid particles into one mass using a liquid
11. Baking: using heat to effect a change of state
12. Shearing: removal of fur or hair from a live animal
13. Washing: laundering or cleaning of absorbent materials
14. Combing: separating tangled fibers
15. Dyeing: permanently coloring materials
16. Spinning: twisting individual fibers into one thread
17. Setting up the loom
18. Threading the loom
19. Weaving: weaving of fibers, or basket-weaving, knitting etc.
20. Unravelling woven threads
21. Tying: tying a permanent or an artisan's knot
22. Untying: untying any of the aforementioned knots
23. Sewing: permanent bonding of two materials
24. Tearing: tearing permanently bonded materials for a constructive purpose
25. Hunting: capturing or trapping animals
26. Slaughtering: killing or wounding a living creature
27. Flaying: stripping the skin from a carcass
28. Salting: preserving or hardening of a substance using salt or chemicals
29. Tanning: softening and preparing leather
30. Scraping: smoothing a surface by scraping
31. Cutting: cutting materials to a specific size or shape
32. Writing: writing, drawing or marking
33. Erasing in order to write
34. Building: constructing dwellings or making implements
35. Demolishing in order to build
36. Extinguishing: putting out or diminishing a fire
37. Burning: igniting or increasing a fire
38. Finishing touches: completing or touching-up an object
39. Carrying: carrying from a private to a public domain and vice versa, or carrying in the public domain (Mishnah, Tractate Shabbat 7:2)

[Irish Zionist]

Also forbidden to light candles? And if yes and you where in a dark room and were reading, what would you do? Are you allowed to read, even if it's prayer?

[muman613]

Also forbidden to light candles? And if yes and you where in a dark room and were reading, what would you do? Are you allowed to read, even if it's prayer?

On Friday evening, before Sundown, we have a ritual to light Shabbat candles. It is only forbidden to light or extinguish fire thus fire which is kindled before Shabbat starts is allowed to burn. Thus if all the candles are lit before Shabbat starts they can provide light for prayer and the evening meal. This also means we can leave electric lights on on the house, usually in the living room and in the bathrooms.... We have special coverings for the light switches which remind us either to not turn the switch on, or if it is on from before Shabbat, to not turn them off.

This way we are also allowed to have hot food for Shabbats festive meals... The use of a 'crockpot' or slow cooker is allowed. We can place the food in the slow cooker on Friday afternoon, plug it in and allow it to slow cook over night... On Saturday afternoon we can eat delicious 'Cholent' {A special stew which Ashkenazi Jews customarily eat}.


http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/722406/Rabbi_Josh_Flug/Electricity_and_Shabbat
or listen to Rabbi Flugs lecture on this topic
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/720222/Rabbi%20Josh%20Flug/Electricity%20on%20Shabbat
http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/journal/broyde_1.htm
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/208,122/What-are-the-39-melachot.html
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/95914/jewish/Food-Preparation-on-Shabbat.htm