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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #275 on: July 11, 2013, 12:06:28 PM »
Is this true?

The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #276 on: July 13, 2013, 11:36:38 PM »
Also, could x-ianity be really a guy that was saying we should all love each other and treat each other like sons of G-d that we are, and then the church just changed that with their kill everyone stuff and killed everyone who said otherwise, or what do you think happened?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #277 on: July 15, 2013, 06:48:59 PM »
Is this true?



Not according to Jewish faith. That is a Christian belief you posted. The Morning Star is הֵילֵל בֶּן שָּׁחַר (Hilel Ben Shachar) as quoted in Yeshayahu(Isaiah). I believe the Christians believe the morning star to be the so-called 'fallen angel' (which we don't believe in) and thus this somehow refers to HaSatan (the prosecutor).

According to Rashi 'the morning star' refers to the planet Venus:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15945/jewish/Chapter-14.htm#showrashi=true
Quote
the morning star: This is Venus, which gives light as the morning star, הֵילֵל being derived from יהל, to shed light. This is the lamentation over the heavenly prince of Babylon, who will fall from heaven.

Obviously the 'morning star' does not refer to Satan, as it is used as a metaphor for Esther of the Purim story.

http://www.shemayisrael.com/yomtov/chanukah/selections63.htm

See also :

Quote
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/jewish-texts/the-prophets-and-writings/?p=3649
You mention Lucifer. You won’t find him anywhere in G-d’s Hebrew Scriptures, the name is not there. It too is a man-made invention based on Isaiah 14:12. In that Verse we read about a morning star “Hailail.” People woke up some mornings and saw all the stars had gone away except one, and the legend of the fallen angel Lucifer grew up from the one.

In actuality, Hailail was not a star at all, but the planet Venus, which sometimes remains visible in the morning hours. There is no fallen angel there and the idea of Lucifer stemming from this Verse is false. The Scriptural subject of Hailail is metaphorical and has to do with the fall of Babylon…again, not an angel – “Nebuchadnezzar, you were a bright star in the world, and see how you have fallen”

PS: It appears the 'translation' on that image is incorrect. Heilel means Star, Shachar means morning...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #278 on: July 15, 2013, 06:59:59 PM »
Also, could x-ianity be really a guy that was saying we should all love each other and treat each other like sons of G-d that we are, and then the church just changed that with their kill everyone stuff and killed everyone who said otherwise, or what do you think happened?

There are many theories about how the Christian religion came into being. I personally believe it was created by the Romans as a way to effectively destroy the Jewish faith by introducing polytheistic concepts in the guise of fulfilling the Jewish prophets and scriptures. Rome had a need to create a uniform faith which would bring all of its provinces under the control of the empire. This is why the Church of Rome became so powerful.

Here is another explanation of how Christianity grew out of the terrible time of the Roman occupation.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/seeds_of_christianity/

Quote
DARK TIME The Roman occupation was such a dark time in Jewish history. Some of the most brilliant of the rabbinical sages had been murdered by Herod. Corruption had crept into the Temple hierarchy. Jews had split into three major groups:

the wealthy Sadducees (many of them were Cohanim—the priestly families), who denied the authority of the Oral Law, pledging allegiance to Rome;
the fanatically religious and nationalistic Zealots ready to battle Rome to the death in a suicidal war; and
the mainstream Pharisee majority, still loyal to Torah and Oral Law, caught in between.
Out of this chaotic time—marked by virulent anti-Semitism and cruel oppression of the Jews—were born a number of splinter sects, whose members believed that the Apocalypse was at hand. Finding a receptive ear among the disfranchised, these sects preached that the ultimate battle of good versus evil would soon be fought, followed by the Messianic redemption of humanity.

The Dead Sea Sect—which became famous in modern times after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, and which may or may not have been associated with the Essenes—was one such sect, but there were many others.

The teachings of these sects did not catch on in any significant way among the Jews. In the same way that the Jews usually rejected foreign religions, they also rejected attempts to tamper with the inner workings of Judaism.

Nevertheless, at this tumultuous time, the Jews were more susceptible than ever before. The countryside was alive with charismatic healers and preachers, and people flocked to them hoping to hear prophecy that the years of strife and suffering were at an end.

The one who would become most legendary, was Joshua, or Jesus, who later in history came to be called Christ, which is Greek for Messiah.

It is outside of this book to describe the beginnings of early Christianity under Jesus. Currently, there exist approximately 2,700 books in print on the subject, many of them written in recent years discussing the issue of the historical Jesus vs. the legendary Jesus, and debating what he said or did not say and what can be said of him with any certainty.

(For those interested, one good source is a highly readable book by the award-winning British biographer A. N. Wilson, Jesus: A Life, which thoroughly analyzes all the data and throws in a fair amount of fascinating speculation as well.)

Historically speaking, very little is known. The authors of the Gospel, beginning with Mark c. 60 C.E., all lived after the accepted date of Jesus’ death (c.34 C.E.) There are several references in the Talmud to various personalities of whom the rabbis disapproved and some have speculated that one or more of these references are to Jesus. The closest possibility is Yeshu HaNotzri(5), but there are several problems with this idea: First, there are at least two characters in the Talmud with the name Yeshu HaNotzri. Second, according to Jewish chronology, these two individuals lived about 300 years apart and neither lived at the time of Jesus. The first Yeshu lived at the time that Joshua Ben Perachyah led the Sanhedrin (circa 150 BCE) and, therefore, predated Jesus according to Christian chronology by at least 150 years. The second Yeshu lived sometime during the second century C.E. about 100 years after the death of Jesus. Finally, the limited narrative we do find in the Talmud(6) about Yeshu does not match anything from the Gospel.

One would expect—if Jesus was at all influential in his time - that the great Jewish historian Josephus (c. 38 - c. 100 C.E.) would have devoted considerable space to him. In all of Josephus’s writings there is but one mention of Jesus (Josephus, Antiquities, 18:3:3.) and this single reference is considered by virtually all scholars to have been an insertion into the original text-added later by Christian monks who copied such texts for church libraries.(7)
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #279 on: July 21, 2013, 03:47:18 AM »
What is magic, does Hollywood promote it, and is defense against it other than killing the user also forbidden? What can it do to you? What does it have to do with music?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #280 on: July 21, 2013, 04:04:33 AM »
Also, why is fascination with it wrong?

Sorry about the article bro... it's on the way.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #281 on: July 21, 2013, 02:53:18 PM »
Shalom LKZ,

Magic is the attempt by mankind to control the physical world and by extension control the hand of G-d.

Hashem has made a covenant with the Jewish people as testified to in the Torah. What Hashem expects from us is to trust in his 'will' for what will happen in the future. Attempting to know the future or influence it is, in a way, showing we do not have faith that Hashem's will is the correct will.

The Torah expressly forbids speaking with the dead, ascribing unique power to the sun, moon, and stars and divination (attempting to foretell what will happen using certain methods). What the Torah does not forbid is the attempting to understand why things have happened in order to rectify ourselves. We do believe that Hashem expresses himself though natural events (such as weather, earthquakes, tough times, etc) and we are supposed to learn our lessons from these events.

But magic is forbidden because it is trying to control things which Hashem wants us to trust him to control. The rationalist Rambam denies that Magic even is a real thing (beyond tricksters and charlatans) but others do believe that it is possible to master certain forces in order to change reality. I believe that there are spiritual forces but for the most part what is called magic today is just falsehood.

Simple faith in Hashem is the best route to take for a Jew. While it may seem inviting to think we can control our world the reality is that Hashem is ultimately the one who is in control, it is better to realize it than to deny it.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #282 on: July 21, 2013, 02:55:09 PM »
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/424,2179818/What-does-Judaism-say-about-magic.html

G-d is the Force. He is One, but to give us Free Choice, He created Two: Light and Darkness. Both come from Him, but only one is His Will.
Darkness doesn’t exist. It is merely the absence of Light. In such black places can the darkness be harnessed to create what has come to be perceived as black magic.

And those are places we ought not enter.

G-d created the world. It is His. He created each thing for a reason. And the way He created it is the way it ought to remain.

Unless, He instructs us to change it.

There are ways to transcend nature, but it is impossible to circumvent G-d.

G-d instructed us to control many of our natural cravings. He gave us permission to heal. He commanded us to feed the hungry and give money to the poor. He allowed to us to work the land and develop natural resources. He taught us how to bring spiritual light into the world, and commanded us to do so through his Torah and Mitzvot.

Yet He forbade us from tapping into dark energies to create (the illusion of) black magic.1

Immediately after the section on black magic, the Torah states:2 "Be whole with G-d", meaning: black magic makes you un-whole with G-d. Filling your life with the pursuit of universe-control, attempting to supernaturally shatter the barriers of physics, experimenting with the occult and the extrasensory, is unwholesome.

And most of the time, simply foolish.3 After all, the vast majority of the time, this stuff (especially séances, tarot cards, psychics and crystal balls) is flatly bogus.

There are ways to transcend nature4, but it is impossible to circumvent G-d. G-d prohibits magic and G-d is just better at being G-d than we are, so trust Him. Let go. Leave your future and the universe in His hands, and lead your life in accordance with His will.

Footnotes

1. Deuteronomy 18:10-11
2. Deuteronomy 18:13
3. Maimonidies laws of Idol Worship 11:17-18
4. Deuteronomy 18:14-15 - the Torah continues to state that prophecy could be real, and when it is it must be abided by. But the Torah describes the criteria for authentic prophecy.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #283 on: July 21, 2013, 03:04:13 PM »
You may find this article very interesting:



http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48938547.html

Witchcraft and Judaism
by Rabbi Ahron Lopiansky

Between God and nature lies a bridge of the occult. A slip-up means falling into the abyss of spiritual perversion.

Most children are thrilled by stories of witches and devils, Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort. In an otherwise dry and rational world, those mysterious forces add an element of fun and excitement and stir the imagination. They allow a youngster to feel that there is a way to beat a merciless and insensitive system.

Born poor through no fault of your own? No problem ― a wonderful fairy will come to your doorstep and give you the fortune you so longed for. A bully is tormenting you mercilessly? A spell will be cast and he will become a squirrel for the rest of his life.

The Blair Witch Project films give teenagers a momentary shot of excitement and dread, and an ominous whiff that maybe there really is something lurking out there.

Three General Approaches

When a person matures, three general approaches towards the occult and other outside forces begin to emerge.

There are the serious, rational mindsets who laugh it all off. For them the world is rational, quantifiable and anything else is utter rubbish.

There is a second group of people, who tend to be spiritual, artistic, poetic, etc. They sense the world has a spiritual dimension to it, and that there are all sorts of forces and mysteries that reason can't comprehend. Theirs is a world of tea-leaf readings, tarot cards, crystal balls and psychic predictions.

Then there are those very deeply religious people, whose worldview is that of a great battle between the two forces in the world ― good and evil. The captain of the good team is God, assisted by a host of angels, saints, martyrs, etc. The captain of the bad team is the devil, assisted by demons, evil spirits and politicians. Their world is particularly threatened by the likes of Harry Potter books, due to a large degree to the severity with which witchcraft is dealt with in the Bible.

Not Jewish

None of these three general approaches are in keeping with Judaism. What is the Torah perspective regarding witchcraft?

The Torah takes a very negative attitude towards witchcraft in its various formats, such as:

"A sorcerer shall not be allowed to live." (Exodus 22:17)

"For you are coming into a land that God is granting to you; do not learn the ways of the abominations of the native people. There shall not be found amongst you ... a sorcerer, soothsayer or engager of witchcraft ... or one who calls up the dead. For it is an abomination before God, and it is on account of these abominations that God is giving you their land." (Deut. 18:9-12)

But why? What is the problem with it?

The so-called "devil vs. God" approach is an anathema to Judaism because of the whiff of dualism inherent in it. God is One, and only One. He acts in many different ways, but there are no "two" armies in the full sense of the word.

Judaism does speak of the "Satan/devil," but it sees Satan as an agent of God, testing the sincerity of man's deeds, the strength of his convictions, and the stamina of his moral fiber. Although this so-called devil seems to entice man to do wrong, he is not inherently an evil being. Rather, he is conducting a "sting" operation; overtly enticing to bad, but in reality working for God. A cursory reading of the beginning of Job conveys that message: God sends out Satan to test Job's righteousness.

Just as a dentist or doctor tests the firmness of a bone or flesh by probing it, just as the army tests the integrity and trustworthiness of its intelligence agents by tempting them, so too does God test man. A test reveals the inner worthiness of a person's deeds, demonstrating what they are really made of.

So, if magic and occult do exist, why are they so evil?

Good Magic, Bad Magic

We also find mention of many types of "good magic" in the Talmudic sources, such as blessings, amulets etc. How do we distinguish between the two types of spiritual forces?

The perspective most widely used is that of the Nachmanides, the great 12th century thinker. We will try to adapt and explain his perspective.

Although God was the sole creator of the universe, He created an autonomous system of "nature" that serves as an intermediate layer between God and man.

The system of nature is self-contained and has its laws and its causes and effects. Being that one can use this system without immediate recourse to God, it allows for a sort of atheism. It is easy to think that the system runs on its own, independent from God. Gravity, inertia, electro-magnetism etc. all work whether the person is a sinner or a saint. A person who buys into the phenomena of nature, without bothering to ask himself about their cause, nor being sensitive to God's manipulation of natural events, is misled by the system into disbelief in God.

Between God and this world of nature lies another bridge, which we shall call the "occult" or the quasi-spiritual. It has the ability to change and bend the rules of nature, through miracles, magic, etc. But this quasi-spiritual world, although it is more elevated than nature per se, is still not the Divine. It has its rules and laws of operation, and is perhaps more powerful than the physical world, but certainly not omnipotent.

Are we to make use of this world in the way which we are bidden to make use of the physical world?

Nachmanides says that generally speaking God does not desire that we make use of this world. God had intended for us to come to awareness of Him within the natural world, and through its phenomena. Someone who subverts the system of nature, by constantly using the supernatural world, is going against the will of God.

In those instances where holy people have used forces above nature, they've always emphasized the fact that the miracles thus generated only demonstrated God's omnipotence to override natural phenomena. This is similar to (though certainly not the same as) the miracles that God performed for Israel in Egypt with the aim of establishing certain Divine truths. When a righteous person occasionally uses Divine intervention, it bolsters those great truths.

Danger Of Wrong-Doing

It is at this point that the danger of real wrongdoing exists. A person who has realized that the laws of nature unto themselves are insufficient to explain the world, has tapped into this more spiritual world and come upon a melange of all sorts of "spiritual beings." If he understands they are agents of God, this becomes a true spiritual experience. But if he mistakenly understands them to be independent of God, then he engages in idol-worship! These forces then become a source for evil when they are viewed as an alternative power to God.

Perhaps the best illustration for this dual approach is inherent in the story of the "copper snake":

And the people spoke ill of God and Moses ... and God sent against them the burning serpents and they bit the people, and many people died ... and God told Moses: "Shape a snake [out of copper] and place it on a stick, and whoever was bitten will look at it and live." Moses then made a snake of copper and put it on a stick, and if a person was bitten by a snake, he would look at the copper snake and live. (Numbers 21:4-9)

The Mishna (Rosh Hashana 29a) puts this into perspective:

Did the serpent heal or kill? Rather, when Israel looked up heavenward, and dedicated their hearts to their Heavenly Father [they would be healed], and when not, they would waste away.

Here we have both facets of the supernatural: At first, the miraculous nature of the snake caused people to realize that the plague was God's doing, and they worked on bettering themselves. In this vein it was a positive spiritual experience.

But later things disintegrated and instead of the snake being a means to recognizing God, it became a focal point in itself, i.e. the wonderful healing snake ― separate from God's power. That is idolatry. For this reason, many hundreds of years later, King Hezekiah had this copper snake destroyed because people turned it into an idol!

Understanding Idol Worship

Idol worship is the perception that there are many forces with various powers over mankind and perhaps even over God. The idolater thinks that he can use these "powers" against God if he only knew how to wrest them away from God.

It's as if God's power were vested in a gun He holds in His hand. The idolater thinks that if could only wrest the gun from God, then he'd wield that power. He equates the spells of witchcraft with the ability to overpower God.

The prime example of this thinking is the evil prophet Bilaam, who is called a sorcerer by the Torah. He was a person very knowledgeable in this area of the universe. He kept scheming to use the world of magic against God. He thought he understood the mind of God and that with enough powerful manipulation, he would be able to outfox Him!

In a sense, this is the worst form of idolatry possible. On the one hand, the person is onto something "real." It is not a weird looking rock that a primitive mind has fantasized into a god. Rather, it is a power that works. Yet, it is utterly false, because nothing is independent of God.

For us, the litmus test of "spirituality" is morality. Any form of "spirituality" that makes no moral demands on a human being, that does not seek to bring him closer to God, or bring out the Divine potential of man, is bogus or evil spirituality.

If a person practices "occult rites" and the content thereof is a mumble of strange words, bizarre costumes, or strange rites, it is either bogus or evil. It usually is bogus, but in those cases that he has tapped into these powers, it is evil for he has divorced it from God.

The great rabbis who performed supernatural acts, were using them to bring home a message about God. They enjoined people to recognize the Creator, develop their character, be kind to others, be honest and faithful, reign in their drives, etc. Understood in the larger context of God, Torah and morality, these unusual miracles were indeed Divine revelations.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #284 on: July 21, 2013, 03:23:26 PM »
Regarding your direct questions...

Q1) Does Hollywood promote it....
A1) It does seem that Hollywood has made quite a lot of money on plots which involve magic.

Q2) Defense against 'witchcraft'?
A2) There is no such thing as 'witchcraft' against those who have complete faith in Hashem. I do not worry about it aside from trying to avoid what is called the 'evil eye' which is basically causing jealousy in others by flaunting my blessings. But do not fear any magic because a Jew who places trust in Hashem is immune to any 'curse' uttered (witness the case of Bilaam).

Q3) What can it do to you?
A3) Absolutely nothing.... As I stated above, faith in Hashem is the ultimate protection against any force in the universe. Hashem is the source of all sources, the creator of all creations, there is no power which is beyond his ability. Thus 'curses' and 'black magic' are like dust to him, he can blow them away with his 'nostrils' (see the Song at the Sea).

Q4) Is there any connection between music and magic?
A4) I don't know exactly what you are asking. Music is not inherently evil and actually some music is very, very Holy. The Levites sang a most beautiful song in the Temple, and David played the most divine harp, so music can be divine. The problem is that with every force made by man, it can and is often used for evil. Black Metal and Death Rock are examples of music which has been harnessed in order to deliver darkness to the listener. So too with the gangster rap which is so popular today. But music is not the problem, the problem is that music is being used evilly.

Q5) Is there a problem being fascinated with it?
A5) If you place trust in the 'black magic' and spend time studying it then I would say you have a problem. Watching an occasional movie which contains magical plots may not be so terrible, but in my opinion it is a waste of time. There is so much great Torah books and thoughts to learn, the Talmud is a great thing to study, that spending time 'fascinated' with the occult seems like a waste to me.


« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 03:42:48 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #285 on: July 28, 2013, 09:44:49 PM »
This article mentions the concept that Torah and song and music can share some things. They both are capable of inspiring the soul...

Quote
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter6-1a.html
"Rabbi Meir (Mai-eer) said: Anyone who engages in Torah study for its own sake ('lishma') merits many things. Not only that, but the entire world is worthwhile for him alone. He is called 'friend' and 'beloved,' he loves G-d, he loves man, he brings joy to G-d, he brings joy to man. It [the Torah] clothes him in humility and fear. It enables him to be righteous, pious, upright, and faithful. It distances him from sin and brings him to merit. [Others] benefit from him advice and wisdom, understanding and strength, as it says, 'To me is advice and wisdom, I am understanding, and strength is mine' (Proverbs 8:14). It gives him kingship, dominion and analytical judgment. It reveals to him the secrets of the Torah. He becomes as an increasing stream and an unceasing river. He becomes modest, slow to anger, and forgiving of the wrongs done to him. It makes him great and exalted above all of creation."
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Further, what of Israel's great love affair with the Torah? Isn't Torah study exhilarating? Hasn't its depth and wisdom brought cheer and inspiration to generations of suffering and exiled Jews who had little else? King David exclaimed, "If not for Your Torah, my delight, I would have perished in my suffering" (Psalms 119:92). (Put to stirring music by Shlomo Carlebach; was reputedly the favorite song of R. Aharon Kotler.) David likewise referred to Torah study as "music" to him (ibid., v. 54) (although G-d faulted him for viewing the Torah as merely a source of a "high" -- see Talmud Sotah 35a). Do we not -- how could we not -- study the Torah without becoming overwhelmed with the thrilling sense of the infinite wisdom of G-d? And is that appreciation somehow less than "true" Torah study lishma?

Let us back up a moment. Torah study lishma means studying because it is G-d's will. But what *is* G-d's will -- and why does He want us to study Torah? The answer is that G-d's ultimate will is to do good to mankind. He gave us a world in which we can serve Him and become worthy of reward -- closeness to G-d in the World to Come. (We've discussed in the past why G-d cannot reward us directly but requires us to earn it first. See for example Chapter 4, Mishna 22(b)).

Also this article on some Kabbalistic ideas comparing Torah to Water...

Quote
http://www.inner.org/torah_and_science/waters.php

Science, Music, Torah -- Worlds, Souls, Divinity

The Ba'al Shem Tov teaches that there are three dimensions of reality: Worlds, Souls and Divinity. Each has its inherent wisdom. The pure wisdom of Worlds, created reality, is mathematics; the pure wisdom of Souls is music and the wisdom of Divinity is the wisdom of Torah. The Vilna Gaon and other sources explain that the epitome of science is pure mathematics. This is verified by scientists as well. The common expression in science is that mathematics is the queen of the sciences. The expression goes on to say that pure number theory is the queen of mathematics. Thus, the epitome of knowledge vis a vis Worlds is pure mathematics or pure number theory. This is explicitly explained by great Torah scholars who also state that above mathematics is music. Music relates to the soul itself, which is above the concept of Worlds. Above all, the wisdom of God Himself is the Torah. This can be likened to a pyramid of three levels, in which the highest level is infinitely above the others. Nonetheless, there is a relationship of Torah becoming experienced in music, and then being reflected in pure mathematics, the ultimate wisdom of Worlds.

Following the disciplines closest to Torah, music and mathematics, the sciences must be clarified. This is called berur. Nowadays, as most of the sciences become more "spiritual" it is possible to clarify the sciences with the proper intention and study by those people capable of undertaking such a task. A negative aspect of science is that it gives reality a feeling of yeshus, physical existence. This yeshus is being progressively stripped, as in the theory of today's scientists that an electron is not a physical entity. This means that reality is being appreciated from a spiritual perspective. One of the most negative aspects of science was always the Greek theory of the primordial existence of the physical universe. Now science is very near the theory of continual creation of all matter and energy. Science is approaching the Unified Field Theory. Time and space have already been clarified. In Kabbalah this is called yichuda ila'ah. Matter and energy have also been unified, as represented by the equation: E equals MC squared. This is yichuda ta?ta?ah. Now it remains to unify all four forces of nature, wherein each force corresponds to one of the four letters of God's Name and to the four Worlds, etc.
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It is this concept which I believe Rabbi Mizrachi was discussing in the video I posted in the Eikev thread this week...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #286 on: August 08, 2013, 07:29:11 PM »
This always freaks me out



Please, your comments.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #287 on: August 08, 2013, 07:39:42 PM »
This always freaks me out



Please, your comments.

Shalom LKZ,

Once again you are resorting to superstitions of Christianity as the # 666 has absolutely no connotation of anything evil or satanic in Judaism. I really have no idea why they consider that number to be a bad sign as I have never heard any mention of it in Judaism or Kabbalah. The closest thing I can think of, which I heard once, was that the # 6 in Kabbalah represents this world as ruled by nature (6 working days), the 7th day (#7) represents the entire spiritual and physical existance, while the # 8 represents supernatural beyond our world. So too anything repeated 3 times in Torah represents that the concept is established so repeating 6 three times represents the total limitation of nature in this world. But this has nothing to do with HaSatan (Samech Mem) any more than any other number. We do not consider this world evil...

So I don't know if there is anything Jewish-wise to learn from this coincidence.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #288 on: August 08, 2013, 07:41:40 PM »
Here is basically the same answer I gave from the Rabbi at Ohr Sameyach...



http://ohr.jle.org.uk/ask_db/ask_main.php/277/Q1/

Prof. Zev bar-Lev, Dept. of Linguistics & Oriental Languages in San Diego State University wrote:

Dear Rabbi,

You recently wrote: "The numerical value of "Meah Shearim" is 666, a number which has esoteric and kabbalistic meaning in Judaism, as indicated by the Vilna Gaon in his commentary to the Zohar." Now you've got me curious: In American media, I only hear of 666 for its mystic significance in Christianity -- a negative meaning, associated with "Satan." So what is the mystic significance of 666 in Judaism?

M. Brinn in Greenville, SC wrote:

Dear Rabbi,

Could you tell us more about the kabalistic meaning of 666? I live in a community with a large conservative Christian presence. Recently there was a big uproar over a supermarket's ad campaign because they believed the numbers 666 were hidden within. Thank you.


Dear Professor Bar-Lev and M. Brinn,

Oh, I can't tell you the answer to your question....It's a mystical secret!

Just kidding. Sort of. The truth is that the key to mystical secrets are not in any book, they're in your heart. Even if someone "reveals" a "kabbalistic secret," it remains a secret as long as you are not able to understand it. (So have no fear: The secrets of Kabbala are perfectly safe with Madonna.) But I will explain as much as I know on the subject:

The number 666 has significance as the numerical value of the Hebrew verse: "Ata yigdal na koach Ado-nai -- Now, I pray, let the Power of my Lord be great." (Numbers 14:17). This was Moshe's prayer invoking Divine Mercy on behalf of the Jewish People.

"Mosad Hayesod" cites the Vilna Gaon's commentary on the Zohar that "the number 666 contains hidden within it exalted and lofty messianic potential." No other explanation is offered there.

We do know that the number six represents the physical world. The Torah describes the creation of the universe as a six part, six day, process. Our ancient sources describe the universe as emanating in six directions -- north, south, east, west, up, down -- from a central point. All physical space and all physical objects have these six dimensions.

666 is six repeated three times. Repeating a concept three times represents the affirmation and strength of that concept. The number 666 could thus represent the strength and perfection of the physical world, which Judaism teaches will occur in the messianic era, when the physical world will reach its ultimate purpose, to be a vehicle through which the created experience the Creator.

Sources:
Mosad Hayesod pp. 204-205
Rabbi Dovid Rossoff, author o "Where Heaven Touches Earth," Guardian Press
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #289 on: August 08, 2013, 07:53:31 PM »
Here is basically the same answer I gave from the Rabbi at Ohr Sameyach...



http://ohr.jle.org.uk/ask_db/ask_main.php/277/Q1/

Prof. Zev bar-Lev, Dept. of Linguistics & Oriental Languages in San Diego State University wrote:

Dear Rabbi,

You recently wrote: "The numerical value of "Meah Shearim" is 666, a number which has esoteric and kabbalistic meaning in Judaism, as indicated by the Vilna Gaon in his commentary to the Zohar." Now you've got me curious: In American media, I only hear of 666 for its mystic significance in Christianity -- a negative meaning, associated with "Satan." So what is the mystic significance of 666 in Judaism?

M. Brinn in Greenville, SC wrote:

Dear Rabbi,

Could you tell us more about the kabalistic meaning of 666? I live in a community with a large conservative Christian presence. Recently there was a big uproar over a supermarket's ad campaign because they believed the numbers 666 were hidden within. Thank you.


Dear Professor Bar-Lev and M. Brinn,

Oh, I can't tell you the answer to your question....It's a mystical secret!

Just kidding. Sort of. The truth is that the key to mystical secrets are not in any book, they're in your heart. Even if someone "reveals" a "kabbalistic secret," it remains a secret as long as you are not able to understand it. (So have no fear: The secrets of Kabbala are perfectly safe with Madonna.) But I will explain as much as I know on the subject:

The number 666 has significance as the numerical value of the Hebrew verse: "Ata yigdal na koach Ado-nai -- Now, I pray, let the Power of my Lord be great." (Numbers 14:17). This was Moshe's prayer invoking Divine Mercy on behalf of the Jewish People.

"Mosad Hayesod" cites the Vilna Gaon's commentary on the Zohar that "the number 666 contains hidden within it exalted and lofty messianic potential." No other explanation is offered there.

We do know that the number six represents the physical world. The Torah describes the creation of the universe as a six part, six day, process. Our ancient sources describe the universe as emanating in six directions -- north, south, east, west, up, down -- from a central point. All physical space and all physical objects have these six dimensions.

666 is six repeated three times. Repeating a concept three times represents the affirmation and strength of that concept. The number 666 could thus represent the strength and perfection of the physical world, which Judaism teaches will occur in the messianic era, when the physical world will reach its ultimate purpose, to be a vehicle through which the created experience the Creator.

Sources:
Mosad Hayesod pp. 204-205
Rabbi Dovid Rossoff, author o "Where Heaven Touches Earth," Guardian Press

So... is this supposed to represent a failing on the part of the physical world?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #290 on: August 08, 2013, 08:12:46 PM »
I would say no. "  The number 666 could thus represent the strength and perfection of the physical world, which Judaism teaches will occur in the messianic era, when the physical world will reach its ultimate purpose, to be a vehicle through which the created experience the Creator."
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #291 on: August 08, 2013, 09:02:18 PM »
In the NT Revelations the mark of the beast is 666. Maybe there may have been a translation error from Hebrew to Latin to English... The mark of the beast is 666 in  "English" Gematria, so maybe it is really 375...

http://www.gematrix.org/?word=mark%20of%20beast
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #292 on: August 08, 2013, 09:06:13 PM »
In the NT Revelations the mark of the beast is 666. Maybe there may have been a translation error from Hebrew to Latin to English... The mark of the beast is 666 in  "English" Gematria, so maybe it is really 375...

http://www.gematrix.org/?word=mark%20of%20beast

The original is Greek.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #293 on: August 08, 2013, 09:15:11 PM »
The original is Greek.
You're right it was.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #294 on: August 08, 2013, 09:17:44 PM »
You're right, it was.

Well technically we don't know for sure, but the earliest known copies are, and Paul wrote in a letter to some odd people that he was not writing it in his language, so it's generally accepted as being originally Greek. That is from the manuscript.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #295 on: August 08, 2013, 09:24:23 PM »
Well technically we don't know for sure, but the earliest known copies are, and Paul wrote in a letter to some odd people that he was not writing it in his language, so it's generally accepted as being originally Greek. That is from the manuscript.
Thanks for fixing your. Just maybe the muzzies pick up on revelations and used the sign of 666 to represent their moon gd...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #296 on: August 08, 2013, 09:51:27 PM »
As I wrote in the Torah section the numerical value for the Samech-Mem (the HaSutton) is 100. I don't know what 'the beast' refers to as we have no such thing in Judaism (that I have ever heard). As explained ad-naseum the Jewish concept of the Sutton has nothing to do with evil but more specifically with the force created by Hashem to test us and challenge us, in order to see if we will succumb to our evil inclination.

There are three aspects of this force 1) The Evil Inclination (yetzer hara) 2) The Angel of Death 3) The Prosecuting Angel. None of these have any power other than the power given to it by Hashem thus there is no power-struggle as the Christians seem to indicate.

No Jew should ever fear the Sutton as he has no power over a Jew who has full faith in Hashem. Witness the story of Job for an example of how the Sutton tests Job.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #297 on: August 08, 2013, 10:27:51 PM »
See the following discussion on the story of Job from the Talmud tractate Baba Basra 16a:

http://halakhah.com/rst/nezikin/33a%20-%20Baba%20Basra%20-%202a-35b.pdf

While he was yet speaking there came also another and said, The fire of God … While he was yet speaking there came also another and said, The Chaldeans made three bands … and fell upon the camels and have taken them away … While he was yet speaking there came also another and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house, and behold there came a great wind from the wilderness and smote the four corners of the house and it fell upon the young men … Then Job arose and rent his mantle and shaved his head … and he said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither; the Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. In all this Job sinned not nor charged God with foolishness. Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves … and the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord and said, From going to and fro in the earth, etc.2 He said: Sovereign of the Universe, I have traversed the whole earth, and have not found one like thy servant Abraham. For thou didst say to him, Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and the breadth of it, for to thee I will give it, and when he wanted to bury Sarah he could not find a place in which to bury her, and yet he did not complain against thy ways. Then the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, for there is none like him in the earth … and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him to destroy him without cause.3 Said R. Johanan: Were it not expressly stated in the Scripture, we would not dare to say it. [God is made to appear] like a man who allows himself to be persuaded against his better judgment. A Tanna taught: [Satan] comes down to earth and seduces, then ascends to heaven and awakens wrath; permission is granted to him and he takes away the soul.

And Satan answered the Lord and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will renounce thee to thy face. And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold he is in thine hand: only spare his life. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord and smote Job, etc.4 R. Isaac said: Satan's torment was worse than that of Job; he was like a servant who is told by his master, 'Break the cask but do not let any of the wine spill.' Resh Lakish said: Satan, the evil prompter, and the Angel of Death are all one. He is called Satan, as it is written, And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.5 He is called the evil prompter:6 [we know this because] it is written in another place, [Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart] was only evil continually,7 and it is written here [in connection with Satan] 'Only upon himself put not forth thine hand.8 The same is also the Angel of Death, since it says, Only spare his life,9 which shows that Job's life belonged to him.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #298 on: August 08, 2013, 11:44:55 PM »
Thanks for fixing your. Just maybe the muzzies pick up on revelations and used the sign of 666 to represent their moon gd...

That was quite insightful.

And for Muman, I didn't even think that I was bringing up "the son of the devil" thing, it was just like either islam is descendant from something that they knew about then, or they added it later, and now Ephraim proposes the mudrats could have simply done what they also do and copied it. It's a pretty big coincidence that they say that is the mark of the thing that's going to take over the world, and they really are, so maybe it was part of a prophesy that remained intact, or something too. I like to be right about everything, so I can't not have all the responses to arguments.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #299 on: August 09, 2013, 03:05:13 AM »
That was quite insightful.

And for Muman, I didn't even think that I was bringing up "the son of the devil" thing, it was just like either islam is descendant from something that they knew about then, or they added it later, and now Ephraim proposes the mudrats could have simply done what they also do and copied it. It's a pretty big coincidence that they say that is the mark of the thing that's going to take over the world, and they really are, so maybe it was part of a prophesy that remained intact, or something too. I like to be right about everything, so I can't not have all the responses to arguments.

I am coming from a strictly Jewish understanding, so maybe you have something but I just can't grasp it because I don't learn about what other religions teach. So I will try to explain my understanding of your question.

So the number 666 in greek looks like the Arabic name of allah according to that image you posted. So the first question I have is 'Is the image you posted the truth?' so let us look at what the word 'allah' looks like in arabic...








Now for the greek 666...



I don't really see the connection. Although I have just come across sites which are spreading this supposed connection. But it seems that both Judaism and Islam attribute holiness to the number 666. As the excerpt I posted above explained that 666 is the gematria of the request Moses our teacher made to Hashem to beg him for mercy...

Quote
The number 666 has significance as the numerical value of the Hebrew verse: "Ata yigdal na koach Ado-nai -- Now, I pray, let the Power of my Lord be great." (Numbers 14:17). This was Moshe's prayer invoking Divine Mercy on behalf of the Jewish People.

Once again I must realize that several things about Jewish faith has been turned around by some other religions. The divine number 13 has an evil connotation in our western world, while in Judaism we praise Hashems 13 traits of Mercy every Rosh Hashana. 13 is a very special number in many ways. So too with this 666 which in Judaism has no connection to evil.It is only those who believe in the power of evil that these kinds of connections are formed.

As to whether Islam is connected with HaSatan... Not in the way that you think. I don't attribute any power to the muslim world. For the most part they are just playing the role that Hashem intends them to play. As I state many times, I am a man of full faith in Hashem, and I believe everything (including my brothers death on 9/11) is in the hands of Hashem.

HaSatan is a force in the world which tests us. His job is to get us to do wrong in our eyes, and in the eyes of Hashem. This force has no will of its own, it has no power independent of our G-d. The satan will be destroyed at the appointed time. He has no portion in the world to come.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question or at least brings you to think of more good questions...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14