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Offline Rational Jew

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #350 on: January 16, 2014, 04:50:01 AM »
Dear Muman,

I would like to know what is a complete Jewish view on husbands who cheat on their wives with single women.

Thank you and May Hashem avenge souls of your father and brother. Amen!
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Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #351 on: January 16, 2014, 03:32:17 PM »
Dear Muman,

I would like to know what is a complete Jewish view on husbands who cheat on their wives with single women.

Thank you and May Hashem avenge souls of your father and brother. Amen!

Shalom SmashIslam,

Very good question... And it seems to me that this is an issue which has been bothering you for some time. You have asked many questions about the Halachic opinions regarding adultery and other infidelities. It is something which causes a lot of confusion in non-Jews and Jews alike.

As Chaim explained the Torah was written during a time when women were not granted a lot of 'rights' and basically were at the whim of the man. Traditionally women have been the weaker of the sexes, and thus in a world where 'Might makes right' the women often was taken advantage of.

Judaism was the first religion to see womankind as partners in creation. Women were granted rights of inheritance and they also were granted certain rights in the marriage document (called the Ketubah). If a woman is not provided for according to traditional norms, she can divorce him.

While it is true that the Torah permits men to have multiple wives, as I (and others) have explained this practice (polygamy) is not permitted among Jews today. There is no Jewish law which specifically requires a man to have more than one wife, and the Torah is very clear to say that multiple wives bring more problems than a normal man can bear.

Regarding cheating there is much written on the topic...

I hope to bring more sources in a future posting... For now I will post some links which may shed some insight into your questions...

http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/1552226/jewish/Husbands-That-Cheat.htm

http://www.aish.com/f/rf/judaism_and_infidelity.html

http://www.shemayisrael.com/rabbiforsythe/shalombayis/issues.htm


And thank you for the kind words of support...

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #352 on: January 16, 2014, 03:34:30 PM »
I will repost this section from the shemayisrael site...

Quote
http://www.shemayisrael.com/rabbiforsythe/shalombayis/issues.htm

1. HALACHIC GROUNDS FOR DIVORCE

Divorce is considered a tragedy in Jewish law. It is basically only justified by something that is breach of what marriage in Torah law is supposed to be. Therefore, a discussion of grounds for terminating a Jewish marriage should include some basics of what marriage requires, as well as violence or blatant violations of marital treatment rules, to give the readers a frame of reference for judging when valid grounds for divorce are present.

I'll start with a brief summary of marital obligations for husbands and wives, so that any breach can indicate possible grounds for complaint or a shaala [Jewish law question] for a rov or dayan.

We do not run right to divorce in most cases [unless there is a major and inexcusable violation such as adultery, violence or abandonment of any Torah observance, as will be discussed further on]. At the start, we examine the nature and validity of possible grounds for divorce. We proceed in all cases slowly, we deliberate carefully, and we obtain proof to validate claims - all done in the light of halacha.

Marriage is a "package" of roles, obligations, responsibilities and functioning. Each owes the other. The Jew has no mentality of "my rights," "my entitlements." Your partner has rights and entitlements... from you.

A man may not diminish provision of all the food, clothes and affection that his wife needs (Exodus 21:10). He must provide financial support (standard kesuba), even if this requires hard or foul-smelling work (Pesachim 113a) or going to the field to farm (Yevamos 63a). He should share the benefits of his life and not cause her pain (Kesubos 61a). She must not cause him pain [Evven HaEzzer 119]. He must never be angry or frightening; he must promote her feeling joyous; and as his financial or social station rises, he must give her more money and status accordingly (Rambam, Hilchos Ishus). He should love her as much as himself and honor her more than himself (Yevamos 62b), give tangible expressions of honor such as jewels and ornaments (Sanhedrin 76b). Relative to what he can afford, he should eat and drink less that he can afford, dress himself according to what he can afford, and honor his wife and children with more than he can afford (Chulin 84b). He lets her be in charge of household matters; he must be careful with her honor; and is to never cause her to cry, to hurt or to curse him (Bava Metzia 59a). He must fully acknowledge and appreciate her for all which he accomplishes as a consequence of her support, encouragement or assistance (Kesubos 62b). He must give his wife compassion and protection (Hakdoma, Tur Evven Ho'Ezzer). He must take care of her needs before his own (Beraishis Raba 39:15). He must nurture a relationship of love and closeness with his wife (Iggeress HaKodesh, attributed to Ramban). During the first year of marriage, he may not leave his wife overnight, so she may grow secure with his love for her (Chinuch #582). He must take time to speak with her, and obtain and respect her opinions (Letter by Rabbi Akiva Aiger).

The wife must cook food and provide clothing (Yevamos 63a). She is obligated to serve him, revere him like a king and honor him exceedingly much (Rambam, Hilchos Ishus), tend to matters of the home and practical daily life (Bava Metzia 59a), obey him and do his will (Nedarim 66b). Where her honor and his are in conflict, she is to defer to him (Kidushin 31a). If she hits or refuses to go to mikva, she can be subject to divorce without kesuba payment (Shulchan Oruch, Evven Ho'Ezzer). When he is angry, she should calm him; when he is hurt, she should soothe him; when he has been done bad to, she should comfort him; when he is worried, she should restore him; when he is pressured, she should minimize requests; and cancel her will for her husband (Shlaw HaKodesh). She should diminish his sadness, his worry or anything which is hard on his heart (Shaivet Mussar). She should raise her man up and she is responsible for her duties (Kesubos 61a).

One of the causes of marital trouble; with its complexity, misery and hostility; is the non-authoritative misrepresentation of mitzvos, halachos and Torah principles. Consider: since people bring to rabbis and batay din emotional and selfish (rather than halachic and authentic) agendas and claims, the cases must either be reconstituted to accord with halachic criteria for get proceedings, or the cases must be commensurately convoluted and mired (as a halachic matter) making solution and conclusive action difficult to impossible. The Torah is precise, objective and serious about divorce because marriage is holy.

Let me share with the readership some basics about grounds for divorce and how a husband's unjustifiably withholding a halachicly required get truly separates him from halacha.

A woman cannot claim that she is an "Agunah" unless her case was duly heard by a competent bais din of yoray Shomayim and expert dayanim who poskined (ruled) that the marriage is over, that the man is required in halacha to give his wife a get and he refuses to give the get ordered by that bais din. "Agunah" is a halachic status and cannot be declared by a wife unhappy with her marriage, no more than she can declare herself a prophet or rabbi or declare that a pig is kosher or that a Tuesday is shabos, just because she feels that way.

Generally, a woman cannot demand a get nor can she say it is a mitzva for her husband to give her one by claiming her marriage is dead. There is no mitzva to give a get. The only mitzva in the Torah is for a man to use the get as the exclusive means for divorcing his wife when the man wants to divorce her (Chinuch, Rambam). Technically, divorcing generally depends upon the man wanting to.

However, it is much more complex than that. There are dozens of Torah principles and requirements incumbent upon a man who can no longer live as a husband with his wife, so the woman is not discounted or abandoned by the Torah.

The gemora (Kesubos 61a) says that MARRIAGE IS FOR LIFE AND NOT FOR PAIN. By definition, when a marriage is painful, it is not a Torah marriage.

The Torah requires never paining a widow or orphan, and G-d becomes furious at and viciously punitive towards a perpetrator [Exodus 22:21]. Rashi says this is not limited to a widow or orphan; rather, it means NEVER PAINING ANYONE who is DEFENSELESS, WEAK OR VULNERABLE. Rambam (Hilchos Dayos) says that this must be fulfilled by giving such weak, vulnerable or needy individuals "rachmanuss yesaira (active and extraordinary compassion)." Since a wife is dependent upon a husband WHEN SHE IS ENTITLED IN HALACHA to a get, she is defenseless and vulnerable insofar as ending her married status is concerned. The one who is callous to her evokes G-d's fury. Chazal tell us that the way we treat another is the way G-d treats us, "measure for measure" (Sota 8b). Heaven gives compassion to each person who gives compassion to people; and Heaven withholds compassion from each person who withholds compassion from people (Shabos 151b).

The saintly Chafetz Chayim [Rabbi Yisroel Meir Kagan, 1838-1933; in a classic work, "Ahavas Chesed (The Love Of Kindness)"], wrote, "If a person in his lifetime habitually failed to forego anything of his own for another, failed to have pity on others, he reinforces the attribute of stern and strict justice in Heaven towards him. So, after he leaves this world and he is in need of such benefits [e.g. kindness, pity, etc.], Heaven pays him back with his own characteristics. G-d deals with him the same way that he dealt with people."

Torah violations for handling or terminating a marriage center around high interpersonal standards and rules imposed by the Torah upon any Jew towards another; such as prohibitions of causing physical or emotional pain, destroying another's life, being vengeful or cruel or strict at the expense of another, etc. These are rules and mitzvos that apply between any Jews. Never forget that the application of the Torah's standard interpersonal requirements totally includes Jews who are married to one another!

In the halachos relating to marriage [Evven HaEzzer 119 and 154 in Tur, Shulchan Aruch and Aruch HaShulchan] grounds for divorce are discussed. This is a brief representative summary with some classic samples. For practical law as applicable to an individual situation, contact a known and respected rov who is an expert in the laws of Evven HaEzzer and who has experience as a dayan.

In Jewish law, raising a hand in anger (even without hitting!) is evil (Sanhedrin 58b). Needless to say, hitting is NEVER an option...whether the victim would be your spouse or anyone else (except in self-defense or if provoked in certain ways). Hitting, especially if with any regularity, can be grounds for immediate divorce (Evven HaEzzer 154:3, Ramoh). If the man hit, he would be obligated to give an immediate "get" (divorce) and to pay the kesuba (marriage contract payment). If the woman hit, he would give her an immediate "get" and she will have forfeited her kesuba money. Failure to fulfill essential spousal responsibilities can be grounds for a get.

A woman can demand a get if her husband develops an unbearable odor or a repulsive illness or injury, if he abandons Torah, if he does not feed or support her, if he has an angry temper, or if he withholds requisite intimate attention.

A first wife should be divorced if she has been adulterous or immodest, refused to go to mikva without Torah justification, violated any major element of Torah or if both mutually want to end the marriage. A man should never be quick to divorce. A man only divorces when he wants the divorce. Among Ashkenazim, the woman ordinarily also has to want it. If the couple does not have a child for ten years, or if one or both spouses cause pain to the other, such is grounds for considering, but not running to, divorce.

In cases where the wife was adulterous, immodest or became unreligious (even if in only one aspect of Jewish law), it is a mitzva for the husband to divorce her. This is the only case where it is a mitzva to divorce. If he gives her a get in such a case and he cannot pay a kesuba (marriage contract payment) or nedunia (dowry), he can give a get without any payment to her and she can then take him to bais din for any payment that she claims he owes her [Tshuvos haRosh]. Otherwise, if he gives her a get, he generally must pay the kesuba.

There are certain demands for divorce which halacha says to ignore unless and until there are certain proofs or conditions. You may not assume, therefore, that a bais din is callous, aloof or "in the clouds" if it does not run to accept one spouse's claim that the other did something which is grounds for divorce. A competent bais din is compelled by halachah to ascertain, substantiate and verify that any demand for a get complies with the halachic system of justifying a get with clear proof.

The rules for ending a SECOND marriage become more lenient (there are more grounds for divorce for a SECOND marriage e.g. they are no longer attracted to each other or he can't stand her cooking).

The laws of and grounds for divorce are not simple and the Torah does not take termination of a marriage - especially a first marriage - lightly. The Torah position is to stay at any marriage and do all you can to make the marriage work, and to give enormous consideration - with objective professional and rabbinic guidance - to the impact on any children of splitting up. Whenever there are children, the couple must do all that is possible to preserve the marriage and to not harm the children psychologically or otherwise. It is a huge mitzva for the couple or others to do all they can to bring the marriage back to peace and bring their family life to normality.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #353 on: January 17, 2014, 03:18:09 AM »
Not exactly answering the question but again talking about the Jewish view toward divorce, the great Rabbi Mizrachi just posted this last week.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline YimachShemotoIslam

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #354 on: January 19, 2014, 09:25:22 AM »
Is marijuana considered kosher? How safe is it compared to most other drugs?

Dan - Stay calm and be brave in order to judge correctly and make the right decision

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #355 on: January 20, 2014, 01:02:16 AM »
It's also wrong to have relations outside of marriage. Is it worse for a married man to go with a single woman than for a single man to go with a single woman?


Offline Rational Jew

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #356 on: January 28, 2014, 02:27:35 AM »
Here is what Rabbi Shmary Brownstein wrote on the issue of adultery, responding to one of the posters:
Quote
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/110550/jewish/Torah-Studies-Naso.htm#comments
To Rivka

One of the Torah prohibitions is that a woman may not return to her husband if she has committed adultery. A man who commits adultery may remain married to his wife. This, it would seem, is because conceptually, the woman brings the affair into the realm of her marriage, while the man goes outside his marriage to stray. For this reason the process of the Sotah waters was performed only for the woman, in order to salvage her marriage. Nevertheless, if found guilty, her paramour would die the same death she would.
You are correct that adultery and idolatry are closely related, as seen from the books of the Prophets. The Sotah waters were not a punishment for adultery in general (that was a death penalty administered by the court to both man and woman involved), but a process to prove a woman's purity so that she could return to her husband.

Rabbi Shmary Brownstein
Chabad.org

So, did I correctly understood that husband can cheat on his wife and still remain married?
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Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #357 on: January 28, 2014, 02:55:22 AM »
Here is what Rabbi Shmary Brownstein wrote on the issue of adultery, responding to one of the posters:
So, did I correctly understood that husband can cheat on his wife and still remain married?

Yes, if the woman will accept his infidelity (or they go to marriage counselors, etc.) it is possible that the marriage can be saved. But the Torah forbids the man from accepting her back once she has violated the marriage. The point is that the Torah is not saying 'he can cheat and still remain married'... You are looking for a specific answer without looking at the entire issue.

The man may not accept his wife back, he must divorce her if she is proven to have been with another man in a way which the husband forbid. Again this question and answer you posted is in relation to the law of the 'Sotah' or the unfaithful wife. The Torah proscribes a method of saving the marriage (if she is proven to have not had an affair)... If she decides to avoid taking the test of the Sotah (drinking the 'bitter water') he MUST divorce her...

But if the man 'cheats on' or violates the fidelity of the marriage, then the wife can ask for divorce or she may not. But she is not forced into divorce by the Torah law...

So in a way it 'seems' that it favors the man... But in reality the woman has the better position.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #358 on: January 28, 2014, 02:56:50 AM »
This article will explain to you the reasons for the laws of Sotah...



Aish.com   http://www.aish.com/tp/i/m/48964791.html


Naso (Numbers 4:21-7:89)
Sotah

by Rabbi Noson Weisz

One of the laws discussed in Parshat Naso is known as the law of the sotah, which describes how a Jewish court is meant to deal with an adulterous woman. (Numbers 5:12-31)

If a woman is accused of adultery by her husband, and there are serious grounds for suspicion, she is given a choice: accept a divorce or stand up to a strange test. The test, if she opts for it, requires her to drink "bitter waters" into which the name of God had been dissolved. If she is guilty, she dies instantaneously.

If we could hold a contest to determine the most misunderstood commandment in the Torah, then the law of the sotah would have to be declared the hands-down winner.

The chief problem lies in the mistaken idea that this law is meant to put down women. But this is far from the case. As in everything else, the truth is in the details.

First let's set the record straight as to the facts:

 

* * *
 

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT

While it is the accused woman who must actually drink the bitter waters, the waters affect her male partner in adultery identically. Just as the waters examine her, they also examine him. (Talmud, Sotah 27b)

What is more, the Torah awards the power of decision to the woman rather than to the man who must share her fate. She is not forced to drink the bitter waters at all. She can admit to adultery and accept a divorce. The truth is she doesn't even have to admit to anything. She just has to refuse to drink the bitter waters on any grounds at all. She can say she has too much anxiety; she can say she would rather lose money than cause the holy name of God to be rubbed out; she can say she can't live with such a suspicious husband anyway etc. All she loses if she chooses not to drink is her ketubah, her marriage settlement, merely a monetary loss. She is free to marry anyone, and walk away from the entire mess totally unencumbered.

The man, on the other hand, is at her mercy. If she professes her innocence and insists on drinking the waters it will avail him naught to admit to his guilt. As long as she decides to drink, if the water kills her, it will kill him too.

In general Jewish law treats both parties to adultery in precisely the same fashion. Whatever is a punishable offense for the female is the same for the male.

 

* * *
 

GOD'S COOPERATION

Nachmanides points out that of all the 613 commandments, it is only the sotah law that requires God's specific co-operation to make it work. The bitter waters can only be effective miraculously. The Torah assures guilty adulterers that their horrible deaths will follow the drinking of the waters instantaneously, and it promises the innocent woman who was wrongfully accused and elected to go through the humiliating sotah experience to demonstrate her innocence that she will conceive a child even if she is barren.

In fact, the Talmud says that Chana, the prophet Samuel's mother, and a prophetess in her own right, who was barren, threatened God that if He would not help her to conceive through her prayers she would make herself into a sotah and force Him into helping her anyway. (Brochot, 31b)

The sotah law is also the only commandment whose fulfillment requires the erasure of God's name, an act that is ordinarily forbidden and punishable by the administration of lashes. The commentators all explain that the stakes involved in Jewish family purity and the preservation of marital trust that serves as its foundation are so high, that God is willing to tolerate the erasure of His own name, as well as to depart from His ordinary policy of conducting the world according to the rules of nature in order to restore domestic trust and marital peace.

Thus, anyone who is skeptical about the existence of God or about the fact that He intervenes in human lives can safely assume that the entire sotah story as it is described in the Talmud never happened at all. On the other hand, anyone who accepts the truth of Torah as interpreted by the sages cannot fail to be moved by God's obvious concern for the sanctity of a Jewish marriage.

Every miracle is an outright violation of the Divine policy to remain hidden behind natural phenomena and stay out of man's way, so as not to disturb the unhampered exercise of free will. Yet, whereas the holiest rabbis or the greatest tragedies cannot persuade God to alter this policy of concealment, every Jewish sotah had the power to force God to come right out into the open.

The sotah law is the diametric opposite of discrimination against the Jewish woman. It emphasizes her supremacy in the all important area of family purity. When it comes to these issues the Jewish male is a mere appendage.

 

* * *
 

THE AGUNAH PROBLEM

In the modern mind, the sotah phenomenon is one chapter in what is known as the agunah problem, which is also sadly misunderstood.

Stating it as briefly as possible, the agunah problem arises from the fact that under Jewish law a divorce is not complete until the husband hands his wife the get, the bill of divorce. This allows the husband to hold his wife's freedom up for ransom when the marriage turns sour. The woman cannot remarry without obtaining a get. But to obtain the get she must obtain her husband's willing co-operation, a requirement that opens the door to all sorts of blackmail and cruel abuse.

The feeling among progressive Jews is that the rabbis could come up with a halachic solution to this problem if they so chose, and therefore the fact that they have not done so is indicative of their patronizing attitude toward women. It is this feeling -- that the rabbis are callously ignoring the suffering of the bound women -- that is chiefly responsible for the lack of esteem for the orthodox rabbinate that is typical of progressive Jews.

To set the record straight, it is worthwhile to state the dictates of Jewish law as they apply to the agunah situation as well:

According to Jewish law (Sulchan Aruch, Even Hoezer Ch. 77) every Jewish woman has the right to force her husband to give her a divorce. If she comes to court and declares that she can no longer endure cohabitation with her husband for no reason whatsoever other than the simple fact that she simply doesn't like him any more, and she is willing to forego her ketubah, he must give her a divorce.

If he refuses to give her a divorce, the court makes him give it to her by force.

In such a situation the woman takes her dowry and all the property she brought into the marriage with her, and only foregoes alimony payments, the lump sum of 200 zuz, plus whatever the husband has undertaken voluntarily to pay her in their prenuptial agreement in the eventuality of divorce.

No Jewish woman ever, under any circumstances, has an obligation to make any sort of monetary payment to her husband as part of a divorce under Jewish law.

Thus, if rabbinic courts had any temporal power the agunah problem would simply not exist. Because they are not given such power in the modern world, they are unable to enforce any Torah law and hence the rise of the agunah problem.

 

* * *
 

SPIRITUAL TREASURE

But there is much spiritual treasure buried here waiting to be uncovered.

Just as the sotah has the power to demonstrate the existence of God by forcing Him into the open, a Jewish court can make use of the agunah situation to demonstrate the residual holiness that resides in every Jewish soul.

Let us consider a passage on this subject in Maimonides' "Yad."

If Jewish law demands that a man give his wife a divorce and he does not wish to comply, it is the duty of the Jewish court in any venue and at any time to apply physical coercion until the husband openly expresses his willingness to give the divorce and then the court writes the divorce which is kosher under these circumstances.

But why isn't such a get invalid if it's obtained by coercion?

The reason is that we only consider a person to be acting under the influence of coercion if he is pressured or forced to do something that the Torah does not command him to do. But someone whose evil inclination overpowers him and forces him to violate a positive commandment or to transgress against a negative commandment is not deemed to be coerced; on the contrary, he had coerced himself into doing wrong through his evil inclination.

Thus, the husband in question who does not want to give his wife a get, as he does want to remain a Jew, he really wants to perform all the positive commandments and avoid transgressing against the negative commandments; it is only his evil inclination that is overpowering him. Therefore, when he is pressured until the grip of his evil inclination weakens and he declares his willingness to fulfill his Jewish duty he is considered to be giving the get of his own free will. (Maimonides, Yad Hachazaka, Laws of Divorce, 2,20)

The skeptic who was left unmoved by the inspiring demonstration of Divine concern that the believer perceived in the sotah law will regard these words of Maimonides with the same skepticism. But for someone who accepts the Laws of the Torah as Divine, these words of Maimonides demonstrate the ever-present inextinguishable holy spark in the Jewish soul.

There is a very poignant message in these laws that takes your breath away.

The entire phenomenon of holiness in our world rests on the dual pillars of Divine Providence and the human soul. Remarkably, these pillars can only be exposed to public view by the processes that bear on the dissolution of a Jewish marriage. Apparently such a marriage contains such a great abundance of holiness that holiness positively leaks out in all directions when the container is shattered.

Is a Jewish marriage indeed such a holy phenomenon? How can we relate to this?

 

* * *
 

TWO TYPES OF MARRIAGE

It turns out that there are two types of marriage recognized by the Torah.

Before the Torah was given, a man met a woman in the market place. If they arrived at mutual agreement to marry each other he took her to his house, had relations with her in private and she became his wife. (Maimonides, Women 1,1)

Addressing the dissolution of such a marriage Maimonides continues:

When does his colleague's wife become the equivalent of being divorced in terms of Jewish law? When he puts her out of his house and sends her to fend for herself, or when she elects to leave him and goes away. They have no need of a document of divorce, nor does the decision depend on him -- whenever he or she decide to separate, they do so. (Maimonides, Kings 9,8)

Under this system which predates Torah – and which is still practiced in the non-Jewish world today – all aspects of marriage are entirely mutual. Marriage is initiated by consensual cohabitation, and is dissolved by the decision of either party to end the state of cohabitation. Adultery is only considered adultery when it is concealed from the husband. If a woman openly decides to have relations with another man without concealing the matter from her husband, it is not considered adultery; in effect, she is telling him she wants to be free which is her absolute right. If he chooses to go along with her, she can have relations with the second man, and then return to her previous husband and resume their married life.

Let us contrast the rules of this type of marriage to the rules in the Torah which govern a Jewish marriage:

Once the Torah was given Jews were commanded that when a man wants to marry a woman, he should first make a formal marriage contract in front of witnesses and only after such an act should she be considered his wife ... Once such a formal marriage contract has taken place and the woman becomes sanctified, although he never had relations with her, and although she never entered his house, she is a married woman. Whoever has relations with her is liable to the death penalty, and if he wants to divorce her, she needs a document of divorce. (Maimonides, Women 1,3)

In other words, the Torah introduced for Jews an entirely new concept of marriage that is separate and apart from the decision to share life and cohabit with another individual.

 

* * *
 

MARRIAGE AS KIDDUSHIN

These common aspects of marriage are also recognized by Jewish law under the heading called nesuin. But the creation of the marriage bond has nothing to do with cohabitation and stems from a purely symbolic act. Married status is something separate and apart from its outward manifestation in the real world, and is primarily a spiritual bond.

Indeed the very word for this act of marriage is kidushin, meaning "holiness." Under the canopy, as the groom puts the ring on the bride's finger, he says to her, "Behold, you are consecrated to me by means of this ring, according to the ritual of Moses and Israel." The wife is consecrated – and being consecrated, she cannot be touched by another. It is in order to break this sanctity that the document of divorce is required. And the husband, being the one who consecrated her, must be the one to undo his act of consecration.

In other words, the Jewish marriage is a spiritual phenomenon, and the rules that govern its initiation and dissolution are to be regarded and studied in the light of the proper way to deal with spiritual phenomena and not in terms of the management of physical arrangements. For all the rules of a Jewish marriage fall into place without cohabitation, and without the wife even entering the husband's house. Spiritual phenomena belong to the realm of souls not bodies.

To appreciate the thinking behind this approach to the marriage relationship let us study the spiritual nature of men and women and the essence of the connection they form through marriage. A man is an ish in Hebrew, spelled aleph-yud-shin; a woman an ishah, spelled aleph-shin-heh. When they marry he contributes a yud to the union, she a heh, forming between them the holy name of God.

 

* * *
 

GOD'S NAME

We are told that this world was created with the letter heh, whereas the next world was created with the letter yud (Talmud, Menachos 39b). In the commandment to reproduce and multiply, the Jewish male, who contributes the yud, brings the new Jewish soul from the next world, and implants it in the Jewish female, who supplies the heh that gives it expression in this one.

Souls, being holy can enter this world only if they have a holy place in which to reside. But this is not a holy world. In this world all holiness is a result of consecration, dedication and hard work. The Jewish man must place his treasure -- the soul he brings down from the next world -- in a consecrated place. The only location in this world sufficiently sacred is the womb of a Jewish woman.

For this reason Jewish law dictates, that Jewish status is entirely dependent on the Jewishness of the mother. Only the tribe and family of the Jewish child are determined by his father. A good way to bring this down to earth is through our patriarchs and matriarchs. We have four matriarchs, Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah, but only three patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Is this mere coincidence or does it have a symbolic message?

The world is laid out in four directions -- the Torah speaks of the fringes on a four-cornered item of clothing. A chain must have at least three links. The space in which Israel lives is symbolized by the matriarchs who are therefore four. They are the ground on which we tread and it is they who delineate the limits beyond which we may not step. Within these secure confines we must construct the spiritual chain that binds us to the Almighty and this is the contribution of the patriarchs who are therefore three.

The object of the Jewish marriage is to create a spiritual union between the yud and the heh, between the holiness of this world and the holiness of the next that is so powerful, that even the yud of the next world can find its physical expression in the heh of this one. The yud alone cannot be expressed without the help of the heh.

Spiritual unions require acts of spiritual dedication. A Jewish marriage is primarily a spiritual entity and is created by a process of sanctification. The yud provides the extra degree of sanctity required to complete the full name of God in the heh. Dedication requires self-sacrifice. The way God created the world in His wisdom, the heh cannot be placed inside the yud. To find our way to the next world we must first pass through this world, the realm of the heh. Men do not bear children; the yud must be placed in the heh.

The sacrifice that is the prerequisite of spiritual dedication is thus required of the Jewish woman. But she is also the one who gains. Through her dedication, she is able to contain both the yud and the heh in her own person, the full name of God, whereas the Jewish male can only be attached to the heh when he is in actual union with her.

 

* * *
 

PROPER FRAMEWORK

The idea of the laws of the Torah is to set up the proper framework in which to express the spiritual aspects of life in the physical world. Whenever possible, the ways of the Torah always conform to the maxim Its ways are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are sweet. (Proverbs 3) But spiritual reality has its own parameters just as physical reality does.

When the world is more filled with spirituality there is a balance and harmony between the spiritual and the physical aspects of reality. As we have shown when the religious court of Jewish law has temporal power neither the law of sotah nor the laws of divorce inflict any suffering or humiliation on Jewish women.

But, whenever the physical and spiritual aspects of reality are torn asunder there is bound to be pain. Both must continue to exist within their spheres of reality which now grate against each other. The ultimate example of the sort of pain that results when the physical and spiritual are forcibly separated is death itself. The suffering caused in the modern world by the application of the Torah laws is the same sort of pain. May it be God's will that we should all live to witness the end of this sort of suffering.

This article can also be read at: http://www.aish.com/tp/i/m/48964791.html
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #359 on: May 19, 2014, 03:44:10 AM »
Was there technology before the flood or not? It seems like there must have been, because even with billions of people and factories we still can barely "poison the rivers" to any extent, and it says they did that before the flood, but then also it took Noah 100 years to make a boat, which G-d had to tell him everything about, so that indicates no, but it also says they made the pyramids before the flood, and they would need some serious technology to make that, so how advanced were they, and in what disciplines?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #360 on: May 19, 2014, 03:48:20 AM »
Also I heard the opinion (I forget where( that any technology we have was allowed by Hashem, and Rabbi Richman said that G-d got rid of our abilities to affect the world so much, since we were sinning, but clearly we can affect the world a lot right now, so then would have been even more, which seems to indicate along with just greater interconnectivity that there might have been some technological advances in certain sectors that allowed us mastery over nature.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #361 on: May 19, 2014, 08:23:05 PM »
Is it bad to watch horror movies? Not like torture porn-style, but like the occult. I've always had this complete fascination with anything like that, and I honestly like to watch anything like that, especially with people, because not only do i get to laugh at the movie, but them too for being scared. I also don't know if this make sense or what it means, but I get nervous in half darkness with shadows, but pitch black is my element. Am I like messed up or something and is there a dvar Torah on all that. Growing up like a goy, the cult I was in (I believe you've seen info on it) was obsessed with spirits and talking to them and such, and while I never did, my youth was filled with terror, and anywhere alone I'd get the million-eyes-staring at me feeling. I don't know much about my family, but apparently my grandmother was blind and considered like a prophet in Morocco, and people would come ask her things. Am I just being a bit nutty, or is there something there, and can certain people connect with whatever it is better than others? This could be the result of brainwashing, maybe, when I was young they said I was possessed and it made me play computer all the time, and they once shut down a whole camp when I started smoking at 12, because they said I brought a tornado on them. I'm 90% saying they're nuts and 10% not sure here.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #362 on: May 19, 2014, 08:25:21 PM »
Not sure if this happened, but voices from your stomach is just something I make up, right?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #363 on: May 19, 2014, 10:39:29 PM »
Shalom both of you, Ephraim and LKZ...

I am finishing at work and hope to be able to address your questions when I settle down after getting home from work today...

Thank you..
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #364 on: May 19, 2014, 10:43:35 PM »
Ephraim, I suspect you are referring to the period after the Mabul/Flood during the generation of the Tower of Babel. It was this generation which 'United' in a mission to ensure that Hashem could never destroy the world again... Unfortunately this 'unity' was an evil unity where the value of human life deteriorated into nothing and Hashem again was disappointed in the generation, so he destroyed the tower and confused language between people....



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246611/jewish/The-Tower-Of-Babel.htm

Conceit of the People

It was towards the end of Peleg’s life that something happened which changed the social life of all men on earth.

After the Flood, man had again begun to multiply and fill the earth. They all spoke one language and understood one another well. The generations of people before the Flood had been interested only in themselves; they thought of themselves as supermen and lived each one for himself alone; they used violence and force against their weaker neighbors, paying no attention to laws and rules. The new generation of mankind was different. They stressed the opposite code of living. The individual did not count for himself; he counted only as part of the community, and he had to subject his own interests to those of the group. Had they confined themselves to this kind of social life, all might have been well. But they overdid it. The tremendous strength that grew out of their organization and goodwill made them proud, and their pride made them turn against G-d.

They decided to build a tower which was to reach to heaven, to make them equal to G-d, and at the same time, to make it possible for them to stay together. This symbol of their divine strength, as they thought, was to be built in the valley of the Land of Shinear.

Their Punishment

G-d decided to destroy their arrogance by destroying their ability to understand one another. He, therefore, confused the people by splitting them up into seventy different nations and tribes, each with a language of its own, (hence the name Babel, meaning “confusion”).

When this happened, the project of the Tower had to be given up. The various groups migrated in different directions and settled in all parts of the world. The Tower itself was partly burned and partly swallowed by the earth.

Nimrod

But even this severe punishment did not bring the people back to the ways of G-d. During the time of Nimrod, who was the grandson of Ham, the wickedness of the people increased tremendously. Nimrod had inherited the clothes of Adam, made out of the skin of the Serpent, and he was unconquerable. All the animals of the world obeyed him and kings recognized his rule. He proclaimed himself god, and images of his face were shown all over the country. People had to serve him and bring him offerings.

It was in this age of idolatry that a new star appeared on the horizon-the only shining star in a dark sky.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #365 on: May 19, 2014, 10:59:13 PM »
That is a totally frustrating way to end such an awesome dvar Torah. What about this star now??
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Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #366 on: May 26, 2014, 01:15:22 PM »
I just saw this. I don't now how I got into this...

http://m.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112333/jewish/Nimrod-and-Abraham.htm
Nimrod and Abraham

The Two Rivals

By Nissan Mindel
Published and copyrighted by Kehot Publication Society

 

Nimrod was one of the sons of Kush. Kush was the son of Ham, the lowest and least important of Noah's three sons. Nimrod came from a line which was cursed by Noah: "Cursed be Canaan, a slave of slaves shall he be unto his brothers."

By birth, Nimrod had no right to be a king or ruler. But he was a mighty strong man, and sly and tricky, and a great hunter and trapper of men and animals. His followers grew in number, and soon Nimrod became the mighty king of Babylon, and his empire extended over other great cities.

As was to be expected, Nimrod did not feel very secure on his throne. He feared that one day there would appear a descendant of Noah's heir and successor,Shem, and would claim the throne. He was determined to have no challenger. Some of Shem's descendants had already been forced to leave that land and build their own cities and empires. There was only one prominent member of the Semitic family left in his country. He was Terah, the son of Nahor. Terah was the eighth generation removed, in a direct line of descendants from Shem. But Nimrod had nothing to fear from Terah, his most loyal and trusted servant. Terah had long before betrayed his family, and had become a follower of Nimrod. All of his ancestors were still living, including Shem himself, but Terah left his ancestral home and became attached to Nimrod. Terah, who should have been the master and Nimrod his slave, became the slave of Nimrod. Like the other people in that country, Terah believed that Nimrod received his kingdom as a gift from the "gods," and was himself a "god." Terah was prepared to serve Nimrod with all his heart. Indeed, he proved himself a very loyal and useful servant. Nimrod entrusted into his hands the command of his armies and made Terah the highest minister in his land.

Terah was short of nothing but a wife. So he found himself a wife, whose name was Amathlai. They looked forward to raising a large family, but they were not blessed with any children. The years flew by, and Terah still had no son. His father was only twenty-nine years old when he, Terah, was born. But Terah was getting closer to seventy than to thirty, and yet there was no son! He prayed to Nimrod and to his idols to bless him with a son, but his prayers were not answered. Little did he know that Nimrod felt happy about Terah's misfortune. For although Nimrod had nothing to fear from Terah, he could not be sure if Terah's sons would be as loyal to him as their father. Therefore, he was inwardly very pleased that his servant Terah had no children, and probably would never have any. But he could not be, sure, and Nimrod was not taking chances. He ordered his stargazers and astrologers to watch the sky for any sign of the appearance of a possible rival.

One night the star-gazers noticed , a new star rising in the East. Every night it grew brighter. They informed Nimrod.

Nimrod called together his magicians and astrologers. They all agreed that it meant that a new baby was to be born who might challenge Nimrod's power. It was decided that in order to prevent this, all new-born baby-boys would have to die, starting from the king's own palace, down to the humblest slave's hut.

And who was to be put in charge of this important task? Why, Terah, of course, the king's most trusted servant.

Terah sent out his men to round up all expectant mothers. The king's palace was turned into a gigantic maternity ward. A lucky mother gave birth to a girl, and then they were both sent home, laden with gifts. But if the baby happened to be a boy, he was put to death without mercy.

One night, Nimrod's star-gazers watching that new star, saw it grow very bright and suddenly dart across the sky, first in one direction then in another, west, east, north and south, swallowing up all other stars in its path.

Nimrod was with his star-gazers on the roof of his palace, and saw the strange display in the sky with his own eyes. "What is the meaning of this?" he demanded.

"There can be only one explanation. A son was born tonight who would challenge the king's power, and the father is none other than Terah."

"Terah?!" Nimrod roared. "My own trusted servant?"

Nimrod had never given a thought to Terah as becoming a father at the age of seventy. However, if he did become a father, he would surely be glad to offer his first-born son to his king and god! Nimrod dispatched a messenger to Terah at once, ordering him to appear together with his newly born son.

That night Terah and his wife Amathlai had indeed become the happy parents of a baby boy, who brought a great light and radiance into their home. Terah had hoped it would be a girl, and he would have no terrible decision to make. Now he could not think of giving up this lovely baby, born to him at his old age after such longing. He had managed to keep his wife's expectancy a secret. None of his servants knew about the birth of his son. There was a secret passage leading from his palace to a cave in the field. He took the baby to that cave and left it there. As he was returning to the palace, past the servants' quarters, he suddenly heard the cry of a baby. What good fortune! Terah cried. It so happened that one of his servants had given birth to a boy about the same time as his own son was born. Terah took the baby and put him in silk swaddling and handed him to his wife to nurse. Just then the king's messenger arrived.

When Terah with the baby in his arms appeared before Nimrod, Terah declared: "I was just about to bring my son to you, when your messenger came."

Nimrod thought it was mighty loyal of Terah to give up his only son, born to him in his old age. Little did he know that it was not Terah's son who was brought to die, but a servant's.

For three years little Abraham remained in the cave, where he did not know day from night. Then he came out of the cave and saw the bright sun in the sky, and thought that it was G-d, who had created the heaven and the earth, and him, too. But in the evening the sun went down, and the moon rose in the sky, surrounded by myriads of stars. "This must be G-d," Abraham decided. But the moon, too, disappeared, and the sun reappeared, and Abraham decided that there must be a G-d Who rules over the sun and the moon and the stars, and the whole world.

And so, from the age of three years and on, Abraham knew that there was only one G-d, and he was resolved to pray to Him and worship Him alone. A life full of many and great adventures began for Abraham, some of which we have already related to you in our Talks of past years.


Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rational Jew

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #367 on: August 10, 2014, 11:26:56 PM »
Shalom Muman,

I know my question may sound controversial, but I still want to ask it.

Why does Judaism scorn younger siblings? Why does Jewish law command parents to love their firstborn more than the other children? Why is there a firstborn preference and why does he have more rights than any of his younger siblings? Why does the firstborn inherit more than his younger brothers? Why is that the younger sibling cannot marry before older sibling?

There are cases when the oldest child is more evil and less righteous than the younger one. Did Sages ignore it? How could any religious scholar justify such cruel laws in regards to the treatment of children?

With laws like this, can we stop pretending that Judaism is the most justice-filled religion when it obviously not true is some cases?

I don't want to sound like a self-hating Jew, but brutal laws like this do bother me.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 12:08:40 AM by Smash Islam! »
Jew or Gentile, Black or White - Against Islam we must unite!

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #368 on: August 12, 2014, 01:55:26 AM »
Shalom Muman,

I know my question may sound controversial, but I still want to ask it.

Why does Judaism scorn younger siblings? Why does Jewish law command parents to love their firstborn more than the other children? Why is there a firstborn preference and why does he have more rights than any of his younger siblings? Why does the firstborn inherit more than his younger brothers? Why is that the younger sibling cannot marry before older sibling?

There are cases when the oldest child is more evil and less righteous than the younger one. Did Sages ignore it? How could any religious scholar justify such cruel laws in regards to the treatment of children?

With laws like this, can we stop pretending that Judaism is the most justice-filled religion when it obviously not true is some cases?

I don't want to sound like a self-hating Jew, but brutal laws like this do bother me.

Shalom,

It seems obvious to me you do not understand the blessing of the firstborn. It has nothing to do with hating those born afterwards, and the Torah obviously is against any preferential treatment of siblings. This lesson is most evident from the sad story of Josephs brothers who hated Joseph because Jacob showed preference to him. I hope it is clear to you that the lesson of Josephs brothers is to teach that all siblings should be treated equally.

The firstborn originally in the scheme of Hashems creation were intended to all be Kohenim (priests who can bring the korbanot on the altar). The firstborn lost this merit after the sin of the golden calf when the priestly class of Kohenim were created.

The only special consideration is that the older male sibling inherits the 'double portion' from the father. This has nothing to do with who is the righteous son or not, it is a fact of birth. It is no less fair than whether you are born a man or a woman, or a Israeli or a Kohen, there are facts of life which have no bearing on what our spiritual level is.

In the morning prayers we say a bunch of things which some people consider 'isms' but for a religious Jew they are 'facts of life' which we thank Hashem for. We thank him for making us a Jew and for making us a man, and from a gentile perspective this seems 'cruel' but it is a fact of life. So too with gender, we are born male and we have the responsibility which goes with being a male. Every 'fact of life' has benefits and problems alike, nobodies life is any better but rather it is different.

I myself am a 'firstborn son' and quite honestly in my family my younger brother (who was murdered on 9/11 in the WTC) was always considered the 'good son' because in my 20s I became a wild man and broke a lot of rules of my mothers home. My brother was an exceptionally well liked man and he excelled in his profession and yet he died at 33 years of age. After 9/11 I did teshuva and have studied Judaism, attending services on every Holiday (which I take off from work), and supporting my Jewish community.

I will provide some links and articles which discuss the deeper meaning of the 'bechara' or 'firstborn' status.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #369 on: August 12, 2014, 01:57:41 AM »
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/birth.htm

Quote

Pidyon ha-Ben:  Redemption of the First Born

The first and best of all things belongs to God.  This is true even of the firstborn of children.  Originally, it was intended that the firstborn would serve as the priests and Temple functionaries of Israel; however, after the incident of the Golden Calf, in which the tribe of Levi did not participate, God chose the tribe of Levi over the firstborn for this sacred role.  This is explained in Numbers 8,14-18.  However, even though their place has been taken by the Levites, the firstborn still retain a certain degree of sanctity, and for this reason, they must be redeemed.

The ritual of redemption is referred to as pidyon ha-ben, literally, Redemption of the Son.

A firstborn son must be redeemed after he reaches 31 days of age.  Ordinarily, the ritual is performed on the 31st day (the day of birth being the first day); however, the ritual cannot be performed on Shabbat because it involves the exchange of money.  The child is redeemed by paying a small sum (five silver shekels in biblical times) to a kohein (preferably a pious one familiar with the procedure) and performing a brief ritual.  This procedure is commanded at Numbers 18,15-16.

It is important to remember that rabbis are not necessarily koheins and koheins are not necessarily rabbis.  Redemption from a rabbi is not valid unless the rabbi is also a kohein.  See Rabbis, Priests, and Other Religious Functionaries for more information about this distinction.

The ritual of pidyon ha-ben applies to a relatively small portion of the Jewish people.  It applies only to the firstborn male child if it is born by natural childbirth.  Thus, if a female is the firstborn, no child in the family is subject to the ritual.  If the first child is born by Caesarean section, the ritual does not apply to that child (nor, according to most sources, to any child born after that child).  If the first conception ends in miscarriage that qualifies for the mother to be impure as if she had born a fully developed child, it does not apply to any subsequent child.  It does not apply to members of the tribe of Levi, or children born to a daughter of a member of the tribe of Levi.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #370 on: August 12, 2014, 02:03:58 AM »
Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a non-Jew.

Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a woman.

Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a servant.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #371 on: August 12, 2014, 02:24:56 PM »
Dear Muman,

I would like to know what is a complete Jewish view on husbands who cheat on their wives with single women.

Thank you and May Hashem avenge souls of your father and brother. Amen!

The Zohar on this is terrifying. Long story short from Rabbi Mizrachi, it's karet (the soul is cut out of the Jewish people), and if he cheated with a married woman, it's the hardest sin in Torah to make teshuva for.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #372 on: August 12, 2014, 02:27:31 PM »
Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a non-Jew.

Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a woman.

Blessed are You, God, our Lord, King of the universe, who has not made me a servant.

In a Sephardic Siddur I saw, women say "blessed are you... Hashem, King of the universe, who has made me according to his will.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline kyel

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #373 on: August 20, 2014, 11:26:42 AM »
The Zohar on this is terrifying. Long story short from Rabbi Mizrachi, it's karet (the soul is cut out of the Jewish people), and if he cheated with a married woman, it's the hardest sin in Torah to make teshuva for.

What is the punishment for a man who sleeps with a married women and she told him she wasn't married? I am guessing this would be easier to make teshuva for.

I don't think it would ever be possible to make enough teshuva without immense (10-20) years of suffering because you'll never feel the amount of tears and suffering that the husband, broken children(and the impact you will have on them for the rest of their lives and then their children), broken family. +They will never forgive you unless a long period of time has passed and you go and beg for forgiveness and you still won't know if they truly forgive you in their heart.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Ask MUMAN613! almost live!
« Reply #374 on: August 20, 2014, 01:00:01 PM »
What is the punishment for a man who sleeps with a married women and she told him she wasn't married? I am guessing this would be easier to make teshuva for.

I don't think it would ever be possible to make enough teshuva without immense (10-20) years of suffering because you'll never feel the amount of tears and suffering that the husband, broken children(and the impact you will have on them for the rest of their lives and then their children), broken family. +They will never forgive you unless a long period of time has passed and you go and beg for forgiveness and you still won't know if they truly forgive you in their heart.

There's fasting, tzedakah, and a bunch of other things involved, and yes, even then to make a complete teshuva is next to impossible.

If you violate shabbat on accident, the effect of what you did on the upper worlds remains the same, but Hashem isn't going to cut your soul out of your people. You, instead of incurring a death penalty, have to sacrifice a cow. With a married women, it's not so simple, because the act of leaning against a wall isn't a sin, but that section where you were caused the switch to flip, so there's carelessness involved, which may partially explain the kappara involved. If you were fornicating with a woman, it's a sin, but also extremely careless, because the woman may very well be married. I don't honestly know the ruling, but IMO, it still makes mamzerim and could tear a family apart, so you need kappara like with accidental shabbat violation and you need to make teshuva for trying to sin that was a lesser sin. I don't know how it all works though.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge