Israel receives Iranian youth for cancer treatment

[mord]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3607459,00.html   














Iranian cancer patient arrives in Israel


Sixteen-year-old Iranian boy suffering from highly aggressive brain cancer given special permission to enter Israel along with parents; doctors in Sheba Medical Center optimistic about giving him chance

Meital Yasur-Beit Or Published:  10.10.08, 22:19 / Israel News 





A 16-year old Iranian boy suffering from a cancerous growth in his brain was transported to Israel on Friday in a move coordinated in part by the Shin Bet, landing in Ben Gurion International Airport along with his parents. He was immediately transferred to Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer to begin treatment.


 

Shin Bet Operation
 
Iranian boy to undergo surgery in Israel  / Nurit Felter 
 
Interior Ministry, Shin Bet grant unusual plea by Tehran family to have son suffering form brain cancer treated in Jewish state. 'When a child's life is at stake religion and origin play no part,' says Minister Sheetrit
Full Story
 
 
 
The youth has developed a highly aggressive growth termed GBM, and was treated in both Tehran and Turkey, to no avail. He arrived on a flight from Turkey after his doctors there recommended Israel as a last resort.

 

Dr. Amos Toren, head of Sheba's Pediatric Hemato-Oncology Department, said his initial diagnosis was that the boy's year- old growth was "The most aggressive tumor that exists among brain tumors."

 

"He is conscious and he can smile but it is hard," he said. "We will give him the most modern treatment possible and maybe we will be able to help him."

 

Sheba Medical Center is reputedly one of the most advanced hospitals in the Middle East, within this particular field of medical technology. This reputation is what eventually brought the boy to Israel.

 

Sheba CEO Zeev Rotstein was therefore optimistic. "We have the most advanced resources to give this boy a chance," he said. "It's still early to be pessimistic."

 

He added that Sheba had acquired a certain history in treating children from various foreign countries. "We hope that with the love and affection we give these kids we are paving the way for at least some  Advertisement   
 
   
 
understanding between people," he said. "We can't change the politics. We are not politicians. We do this because we feel it is our job.

 

"As far as we are concerned, we are not involved in politics. He is from a country that doesn't really like our existence here, but I think part of our job is to prove to countries like Iran that we are here to help the regular people

[Ulli]

Would the Quranimals do such a thing? I highly doubt.

:-(

[mord]

Would the Quranimals do such a thing? I highly doubt.

:-(

Your correct they would try to cause worse cancer

[zachor_ve_kavod]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

[Rubystars]

The child needs help. They should help him, but they shouldn't expect any good will in return.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

The child needs help. They should help him, but they shouldn't expect any good will in return.

Sorry Rubystars,

I have to disagree with you there.  It would be immoral to help, knowing that they will be creating a problem for themselves later.

"Those you have mercy on shall be like thorns in your eyes."

[Ben Yehuda]

The child needs help. They should help him, but they shouldn't expect any good will in return.

Sorry Rubystars,

I have to disagree with you there.  It would be immoral to help, knowing that they will be creating a problem for themselves later.

"Those you have mercy on shall be like thorns in your eyes."

Those who are kind to the cruel will be cruel to the kind.

[Manch]

Perhaps the boy is an Iranian Jew?
But look at this kike-ism:

" As far as we are concerned, we are not involved in politics. He is from a country that doesn't really like our existence here, but I think part of our job is to prove to countries like Iran that we are here to help the regular people"

Yeah, sure, now Hezbollah, Hamas and Iranian governement will see that Jews "displaced" and "stole" arab land in order to "just to help regular people"
 

[AryehYehudah]

Sad thing is there is many Iranians who hate their government and would help Israel form a rebellion.  If Israel won't nuke Iran, why don't they help arm rebels in the country and start a civil war.  You know as crazy as it sounds, I cannot go bashing all Iranian people , like I do the Arab nazis.  I am told many younger people in Iran do not follow Islam and actually hate the religion that has oppressed their people and culture, which at one time was allied with Israel.  One of the best anti-Islam websites I have read was written by an ex-muslim from Iran, named Ali Sina.  Here is the site: www.faithfreedom.org.   The guy currently lives in hiding due to his unending death threates he receives.   He is a true hero against Islam and has taught me many things about Islam.  The site is a great blessing.  Despite my sadness for the good Iranians there are, I still advocate for nuking Iran, because I rather see Iran blown to pieces than Israel.

[Masha]

I wonder if there is some Israeli Jew now waiting for an operation and treatment and not receiving it because the hospital resources are tied up by the treatment of this Iranian boy?

[AryehYehudah]

I wonder if there is some Israeli Jew now waiting for an operation and treatment and not receiving it because the hospital resources are tied up by the treatment of this Iranian boy?

There probably is.. They sacrifice the lives of JEws all the time to help people from enemy nations.  That seems to be the way of Jews.  We love to make our own people eat dirt, so we can come to the aid of foreigners, who in the end want to wipe us off the earth.

[syyuge]

Treat the boy and nuke the Iran.

[Shamgar]

Treat the boy and nuke the Iran.

Well said.

[Dr. Dan]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

[zachor_ve_kavod]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

[Dr. Dan]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

Good point...so let's answer this question in a way as the following: Let's say we knew that the parents were Jihadists bent on Israel's destruction..and they were raising their boy to become one:

1. To treat?
2. Not to treat?

Why not to treat?  Because if we save his life, he will come and kill me after that.  Very justified not to treat.

Why to treat?  Because they are misguided to think Jews are evil murderers..but alas!  A Jew saved their life...now from becoming Jihadists they become fervent Jew and Israel supporters...OR...insteading of hating all Jews just because they are Jews, they make exception for some Jews, but still hate Israel and wish on their destruction.

Both logical points...but what do I do?  If I had a choice to save a Jew versus a non-Jew (and it was a Jihadist), obviously I would save the Jew's life.  If a murderer came to me to save his life, I would only perform the procedure to learn how to save decent peoples' lives...and a would-be murderer or supporter of murder?  Why wouldn't I perform a procedure that is very rare so that it can be used to save good peoples' lives?

I'm not giving an answer it..i'm just speculating...So I'll ask a question to your question.  Let's say it was a Jihadist's son..I know that if I did the procedure it wasn't because of the kindness of my heart or a general oath.  It would be because I want to essentually use this poor sap as a guinea pig to learn how to do the same procedure on a righteous person who might need it in the future.  Is this wrong?  Does it go against Torah law?  Did this make any sense?

[zachor_ve_kavod]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

Good point...so let's answer this question in a way as the following: Let's say we knew that the parents were Jihadists bent on Israel's destruction..and they were raising their boy to become one:

1. To treat?
2. Not to treat?

Why not to treat?  Because if we save his life, he will come and kill me after that.  Very justified not to treat.

Why to treat?  Because they are misguided to think Jews are evil murderers..but alas!  A Jew saved their life...now from becoming Jihadists they become fervent Jew and Israel supporters...OR...insteading of hating all Jews just because they are Jews, they make exception for some Jews, but still hate Israel and wish on their destruction.

Both logical points...but what do I do?  If I had a choice to save a Jew versus a non-Jew (and it was a Jihadist), obviously I would save the Jew's life.  If a murderer came to me to save his life, I would only perform the procedure to learn how to save decent peoples' lives...and a would-be murderer or supporter of murder?  Why wouldn't I perform a procedure that is very rare so that it can be used to save good peoples' lives?

I'm not giving an answer it..i'm just speculating...So I'll ask a question to your question.  Let's say it was a Jihadist's son..I know that if I did the procedure it wasn't because of the kindness of my heart or a general oath.  It would be because I want to essentually use this poor sap as a guinea pig to learn how to do the same procedure on a righteous person who might need it in the future.  Is this wrong?  Does it go against Torah law?  Did this make any sense?

This reminds me of a fable I heard when I was a child.  The jist of the tale is that a lion gets a thorn in his paw, and a boy(?) removes it despite his reluctance and worry that the lion would kill him when it got the chance.  But the lion becomes a faithful servant and friend to the boy. 

It's a nice story, it goes over really well with peace now.

In real life, the lion tears the boy into shreds the minute it can.  Why?  Because that's what lions do.

In my opinion the can perform the treatment or not perform the treatment, and justify their desicion in any number of ways.  BUT, they should know that the deeds of this boy, throughout his life, are their deeds too.

I survived cancer 9 years ago, and I feel a burden to my doctors who saved me, and of course to G-d who saved me.  The way I see it, if I do good and am rightous, then it was a good thing that the doctors saved me.  I will have brought honour to them.  If I am evil and unjust, then I will bring shame upon them.  So far, I feel I have been generally pretty good, but could be much better.

These doctors should consider the consequences of their actions.

[Dr. Dan]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

Good point...so let's answer this question in a way as the following: Let's say we knew that the parents were Jihadists bent on Israel's destruction..and they were raising their boy to become one:

1. To treat?
2. Not to treat?

Why not to treat?  Because if we save his life, he will come and kill me after that.  Very justified not to treat.

Why to treat?  Because they are misguided to think Jews are evil murderers..but alas!  A Jew saved their life...now from becoming Jihadists they become fervent Jew and Israel supporters...OR...insteading of hating all Jews just because they are Jews, they make exception for some Jews, but still hate Israel and wish on their destruction.

Both logical points...but what do I do?  If I had a choice to save a Jew versus a non-Jew (and it was a Jihadist), obviously I would save the Jew's life.  If a murderer came to me to save his life, I would only perform the procedure to learn how to save decent peoples' lives...and a would-be murderer or supporter of murder?  Why wouldn't I perform a procedure that is very rare so that it can be used to save good peoples' lives?

I'm not giving an answer it..i'm just speculating...So I'll ask a question to your question.  Let's say it was a Jihadist's son..I know that if I did the procedure it wasn't because of the kindness of my heart or a general oath.  It would be because I want to essentually use this poor sap as a guinea pig to learn how to do the same procedure on a righteous person who might need it in the future.  Is this wrong?  Does it go against Torah law?  Did this make any sense?

This reminds me of a fable I heard when I was a child.  The jist of the tale is that a lion gets a thorn in his paw, and a boy(?) removes it despite his reluctance and worry that the lion would kill him when it got the chance.  But the lion becomes a faithful servant and friend to the boy. 

It's a nice story, it goes over really well with peace now.

In real life, the lion tears the boy into shreds the minute it can.  Why?  Because that's what lions do.

In my opinion the can perform the treatment or not perform the treatment, and justify their desicion in any number of ways.  BUT, they should know that the deeds of this boy, throughout his life, are their deeds too.

I survived cancer 9 years ago, and I feel a burden to my doctors who saved me, and of course to G-d who saved me.  The way I see it, if I do good and am rightous, then it was a good thing that the doctors saved me.  I will have brought honour to them.  If I am evil and unjust, then I will bring shame upon them.  So far, I feel I have been generally pretty good, but could be much better.

These doctors should consider the consequences of their actions.

I agree that these doctors should consider the consequences and weigh the benefits..

However, I want to tell you about the lion and the thorn story.

By all means, a lion does what it does because it was born that way.  An evil person is not born evil, but taught to do evil and rewarded for it..that's the difference between the two.

Nevertheless...I agree that the doctors need to consider the consequences even of these actions...And if it is an innocent boy, then to do one's job shoudl be to do one's job...

if it is a jihadist..we'll talk about it...it depends.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

Good point...so let's answer this question in a way as the following: Let's say we knew that the parents were Jihadists bent on Israel's destruction..and they were raising their boy to become one:

1. To treat?
2. Not to treat?

Why not to treat?  Because if we save his life, he will come and kill me after that.  Very justified not to treat.

Why to treat?  Because they are misguided to think Jews are evil murderers..but alas!  A Jew saved their life...now from becoming Jihadists they become fervent Jew and Israel supporters...OR...insteading of hating all Jews just because they are Jews, they make exception for some Jews, but still hate Israel and wish on their destruction.

Both logical points...but what do I do?  If I had a choice to save a Jew versus a non-Jew (and it was a Jihadist), obviously I would save the Jew's life.  If a murderer came to me to save his life, I would only perform the procedure to learn how to save decent peoples' lives...and a would-be murderer or supporter of murder?  Why wouldn't I perform a procedure that is very rare so that it can be used to save good peoples' lives?

I'm not giving an answer it..i'm just speculating...So I'll ask a question to your question.  Let's say it was a Jihadist's son..I know that if I did the procedure it wasn't because of the kindness of my heart or a general oath.  It would be because I want to essentually use this poor sap as a guinea pig to learn how to do the same procedure on a righteous person who might need it in the future.  Is this wrong?  Does it go against Torah law?  Did this make any sense?

This reminds me of a fable I heard when I was a child.  The jist of the tale is that a lion gets a thorn in his paw, and a boy(?) removes it despite his reluctance and worry that the lion would kill him when it got the chance.  But the lion becomes a faithful servant and friend to the boy. 

It's a nice story, it goes over really well with peace now.

In real life, the lion tears the boy into shreds the minute it can.  Why?  Because that's what lions do.

In my opinion the can perform the treatment or not perform the treatment, and justify their desicion in any number of ways.  BUT, they should know that the deeds of this boy, throughout his life, are their deeds too.

I survived cancer 9 years ago, and I feel a burden to my doctors who saved me, and of course to G-d who saved me.  The way I see it, if I do good and am rightous, then it was a good thing that the doctors saved me.  I will have brought honour to them.  If I am evil and unjust, then I will bring shame upon them.  So far, I feel I have been generally pretty good, but could be much better.

These doctors should consider the consequences of their actions.

I agree that these doctors should consider the consequences and weigh the benefits..

However, I want to tell you about the lion and the thorn story.

By all means, a lion does what it does because it was born that way.  An evil person is not born evil, but taught to do evil and rewarded for it..that's the difference between the two.

Nevertheless...I agree that the doctors need to consider the consequences even of these actions...And if it is an innocent boy, then to do one's job shoudl be to do one's job...

if it is a jihadist..we'll talk about it...it depends.

You don't think that some people are just plain evil, that they are born that way?  What about Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy, who grew up with parents who cared for them, took them to church, taught them right from wrong?  Yet these monsters still ended up doing very evil acts.  I doubt that they were taught this evil.  I think it was innate.

I'm not saying, by the way that the islamists are born evil.  One of the worst aspects of islam is how they corrupt their children by brainwashing them with the most evil ideology.  So you're right that it is doubtful that this particular person was born evil, unlike the lion I was talking about.

But I'm just curious as an aside, whether you believe evil is always chosen or if G-d can make some people evil.  G-d made Pharoah, didn't he?

[Shamgar]

Most doctors are going to follow the Hippocratic oath and deliver aid to anyone and everyone even enemy combatants. The only exception, I can almost bet would be muslim doctors, who would follow the hipocritic oath.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Most doctors are going to follow the Hippocratic oath and deliver aid to anyone and everyone even enemy combatants. The only exception, I can almost bet would be muslim doctors, who would follow the hipocritic oath.

You're right.  It was muslim doctors in England who plotted to bomb several instalations last year in a plot that was foiled.  These were well paid English muslims who had rissen to the top in England, a country that rescued them from the filth of North Africa, and they showed their gratitude by attempting to destroy part of England.

There is no standard of morality or decency in their backwards culture that teaches them to show gratitude or even a willingness to be assimilated into the country that adopted them. 

So we're talking about how Israeli doctors are going to treat a muslim with cancer.  How ironic!  Why don't they treat themselves as a people for the cancer that dwells within them?  The muslims ARE the cancer.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Unfortunately, most Israelis actually believe bending over backwards for their enemies is a "Jewish value". The alternative (not helping the Iranian boy) would be unthinkable to them. For this to stop, we need to change the way Israelis think and feel. Kahanism needs to come to power for this mindset to change, but Kahanists won't come to power as long as average Israelis have such absurd views of mercy. It's a catch-22, at least until JTF has the money it needs to blanket Israel with ads.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

would be muslim doctors, who would follow the hipocritic oath.

ROTFLMAO

[Dr. Dan]

On the surface of it of course, it seems like a good thing for the Israelis to do.  They think that it will make them seem like decent people, which they are.  But I believe that this is an example of the mercy of fools.  They may save this boy, but he will not thank them for it.  He will turn around and act to destroy Israel, just like ALL the muslims.

The Rabbis tell us (rightly) "He who has mercy upon the cruel, will someday be cruel onto the mercifull."

It may sound harsh to say that they should not treat this boy, but it is common sense, which is something that is sadly lacking in Israel.

But do we know if this 16 year old and his parents are cruel people?  We know that Iran, as a nation, as a whole are filled with cruel people from a cruel ideology...but can we rightly say this 16 year old boy with cancer and his parents are cruel people? 

The Rabbis DO tell us rightly that if we had mercy upon the cruel that we would be cruel to the merciful....Perhaps...we aren't being merciful to anyone cruel specifically...  Be careful on your judgement of this boy and his parents..

That's a good point, Dr. Dan and worth considering.  I know that there are Iranians who are secular and hate what happened to their country in 1978.  There are some (I suppose) that would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollas brought down.  But I also suspect that there are few to nil Iranians who support Israel and the Jews.  Maybe you're right and I shouldn't judge this boy or his family.  Can we agree at least that IF it were established that this boy and his family were enemies of Israel, that Israeli doctors should not treat him?  Would you agree with that?  I'm very interested in your opinion as you are a doctor who took an oath.  To me, the idea that everyone should receive medical care regardless of their opinions is absurd.  I get the feeling that these Israeli doctors would treat anybody who needed it, even Ahmadinejad hypothetically.  I just don't think it's right.

Good point...so let's answer this question in a way as the following: Let's say we knew that the parents were Jihadists bent on Israel's destruction..and they were raising their boy to become one:

1. To treat?
2. Not to treat?

Why not to treat?  Because if we save his life, he will come and kill me after that.  Very justified not to treat.

Why to treat?  Because they are misguided to think Jews are evil murderers..but alas!  A Jew saved their life...now from becoming Jihadists they become fervent Jew and Israel supporters...OR...insteading of hating all Jews just because they are Jews, they make exception for some Jews, but still hate Israel and wish on their destruction.

Both logical points...but what do I do?  If I had a choice to save a Jew versus a non-Jew (and it was a Jihadist), obviously I would save the Jew's life.  If a murderer came to me to save his life, I would only perform the procedure to learn how to save decent peoples' lives...and a would-be murderer or supporter of murder?  Why wouldn't I perform a procedure that is very rare so that it can be used to save good peoples' lives?

I'm not giving an answer it..i'm just speculating...So I'll ask a question to your question.  Let's say it was a Jihadist's son..I know that if I did the procedure it wasn't because of the kindness of my heart or a general oath.  It would be because I want to essentually use this poor sap as a guinea pig to learn how to do the same procedure on a righteous person who might need it in the future.  Is this wrong?  Does it go against Torah law?  Did this make any sense?

This reminds me of a fable I heard when I was a child.  The jist of the tale is that a lion gets a thorn in his paw, and a boy(?) removes it despite his reluctance and worry that the lion would kill him when it got the chance.  But the lion becomes a faithful servant and friend to the boy. 

It's a nice story, it goes over really well with peace now.

In real life, the lion tears the boy into shreds the minute it can.  Why?  Because that's what lions do.

In my opinion the can perform the treatment or not perform the treatment, and justify their desicion in any number of ways.  BUT, they should know that the deeds of this boy, throughout his life, are their deeds too.

I survived cancer 9 years ago, and I feel a burden to my doctors who saved me, and of course to G-d who saved me.  The way I see it, if I do good and am rightous, then it was a good thing that the doctors saved me.  I will have brought honour to them.  If I am evil and unjust, then I will bring shame upon them.  So far, I feel I have been generally pretty good, but could be much better.

These doctors should consider the consequences of their actions.

I agree that these doctors should consider the consequences and weigh the benefits..

However, I want to tell you about the lion and the thorn story.

By all means, a lion does what it does because it was born that way.  An evil person is not born evil, but taught to do evil and rewarded for it..that's the difference between the two.

Nevertheless...I agree that the doctors need to consider the consequences even of these actions...And if it is an innocent boy, then to do one's job shoudl be to do one's job...

if it is a jihadist..we'll talk about it...it depends.

You don't think that some people are just plain evil, that they are born that way?  What about Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy, who grew up with parents who cared for them, took them to church, taught them right from wrong?  Yet these monsters still ended up doing very evil acts.  I doubt that they were taught this evil.  I think it was innate.

I'm not saying, by the way that the islamists are born evil.  One of the worst aspects of islam is how they corrupt their children by brainwashing them with the most evil ideology.  So you're right that it is doubtful that this particular person was born evil, unlike the lion I was talking about.

But I'm just curious as an aside, whether you believe evil is always chosen or if G-d can make some people evil.  G-d made Pharoah, didn't he?

I think it can be one or the other...I'll give you an example..

I believe the majority of people who do evil are rewarded to do so.  But with the right type of punishment can be guided back to non-evil.  These type of people are what i would consider psychologically sane individuals who are aware of their actions and can be taught to be one or the other.  Certainly when evil is taught as a way of life and at a young age, it is much harder to reform that individual once they are an adult...but who knows?  Some Americans who were once pro-Reagan and had conservative values in the 80's might have become nutty with liberal leanings in today's time due to the change in the status quo.  Therefore, anything is possible with sane individuals who are misguided or guided to do evil.

The vast minority of people who do evil are that way because they are mentally insane psychopaths, just like Jeffery Dalmer or Ted Bundy who might have had normal upbringings...I mean, it's quite obvious. If the natural logic is for a person in a normal upbringing will be normal...the one that is mentally insane and eats people, for example, has a mental defective going on...a serious mental medical problem.  I think an evil sane individual would have a hard time doing what Dalmer did.

So, in a nutshell...one can be sane and be taught and rewarded to be a murderer like yasser arafat.  And a vast minority are mentally insane and no matter how they were raised will do things that will harm others because they simply cannot control what their broken brain signals tell them.  A sane individual can be fixed more easily than a mentally insane individual.  Those either need to be institutionalized, given certain medications, or, if they killed a number of people, put to death.

[Dr. Dan]

Unfortunately, most Israelis actually believe bending over backwards for their enemies is a "Jewish value". The alternative (not helping the Iranian boy) would be unthinkable to them. For this to stop, we need to change the way Israelis think and feel. Kahanism needs to come to power for this mindset to change, but Kahanists won't come to power as long as average Israelis have such absurd views of mercy. It's a catch-22, at least until JTF has the money it needs to blanket Israel with ads.

I had a conversation in this regard with someone today.  I proclaimed, "I think we need to worry less what other nations think of us.  Reasonable people will understand our actions. Why should we care what those other nations will think?"  His answer, "Listen, the world is one big family; We should care what certain nations think. We can't be like animals even if our enemies are animals."

I think he had a good point. However, I was clear on my point...Really, when it comes to OUR SURVIVAL, we shouldn't care what other nations think because reasonable people will understand.

Will saving this 16 year old Iranian be going against Israel's survival directly?  I don't think it will..if anything, I believe Gd will bless Israel for it.  Indirectly, what can it do?  It can encourage Muslims or Arabs to practice takkiya and use Jewish and Israeli doctors for the benefit of their physical health and then use it to kill other innocent Jews and Israelis in the current generation or future generations. I believe the former is realistic if we were dealing with the 1930-1945 German Nazis...It might be true with many Muslims.  However, ordinary people even if they were muslim by affiliation would react the way anyone else would who had cancer and their lives were saved by their doctor...with the upmost appreciation and love towards him/her and a different outlook on life that bases its philosophy on choosing peace and life over war and death.