13 years of Blood and Honor in Serbia

[AryehYehudah]

Here,  I am posting from various sources about the treatment of Jews in Tsarist Russia.  Dalmacija claims the JEws lived happy lives and were treated well under the Tsar's rules.  I hope these history links will help disprove his ignorant statments.  It is almos the equivalent of people saying there was No Holocaust.  Holocaust and Pogrom Denial is a sickness, bred by people who wish to deny the wrongdoings to Jews for whatever reasons.  I hope Dalmacija, you can read this; although I feel you just want to be right and me to be wrong.  Please read some of these other links.  I know a man as resourceful as you can have read about this, but I think you rae on purpose trying to deny the history to cover up any wrongdoings that your brethren can have done to us.  You want to paint a fantasy picture of the glory of the Tsarist empire, that really never existed for us Jews; since we were the rejects and garbage of the Tsar's empire.  He would throw Jews out of their homes and order they be executed whenever he felt in the mood.   

We can thank your Russian brothers for writing the book, "PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION", which is read in every arab country to this day; a grave attack on the Jewish people.

As ridiculous as this might sound to us today, the Protocols were seized upon as "proof" that the world was dominated by Jews who were responsible for all of the world's problems.

Fans and proponents of the Protocols have included such anti-Semites as: Henry Ford, the founder of Ford Motor Company; Adolf Hitler, as might be expected; Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser; and King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, among others.

These pogroms were seldom spontaneous, though incitement by Christian clergy around the Christian holidays could drive the masses into a frenzy. However, in Czarist Russia, most of the pogroms were government organized. Why would the Czarist government organize mobs to target Jews? Because Jews were the classic scapegoats for the economic problems of Russia (and many other countries in history).

Writes Berel Wein in Triumph of Survival (p. 173) of the reign of Alexander III:

"Expulsions, deportations, arrests, and beatings became the daily lot of the Jews, not only of their lower class, but even of the middle class and the Jewish intelligentsia. The government of Alexander III waged a campaign of war against its Jewish inhabitants ... The Jews were driven and hounded, and emigration appeared to be the only escape from the terrible tyranny of the Romanovs."

The Kishinev pogrom happened when there was a lot of tension in Russia (two years before the first, unsuccessful revolution). Wanting to dispel the tension, the Czarist government once again organized a pogrom against the Jews.

Strange as it may sound, the Kishinev pogrom received a lot of international attention. This was because by this time pogroms were something that the "enlightened" Western World no longer found acceptable. (If only they knew what they themselves would do to the Jews 40 years later!)

Between 1903 and 1907 was a period of great internal unrest in Russia. Nicholas's incompetence coupled with excessive taxation and the humiliating defeat of Russia during the Russo-Japanese War (1904-05) let to the first Russian Revolution in 1905 which led to a few short-lived reforms in the government. This period also proved disastrous for the Jewish community there were 284 pogroms with over 50,000 casualties. The level of violence was unbelievable.

There was only so much of this kind of thing that people could take. The Jewish community was being devastated and people were looking for a way out. Jews were running out of the shtetls and joining all of the anarchist, communist, socialist, bundist movements that they could find in the hopes that they would be able to change the situation in Russia. Jews have been history's great idealists and during this time they were desperate to find some way of making things better. (We will cover their activism when we discuss the events surrounding World War I.)

America is refuge to Jews from Evil Russian Empire that Oppressed Us.  My grandparents are included in the exodus of people who came to USA.  I do have my great grandfather's and my grandmother's records from Ellis Island.  We have recently discovered them.

We might recall (from Part 23) when the Jews were exile by the Babylonians, the exile had happened in two stages. First the Babylonians took away 10,000 of the best and the brightest, and that turned out to be a blessing in disguise because when the Jews arrive in Babylon, there is a Jewish infrastructure in place. Yeshivas had been established, synagogues built, there was a kosher butcher and a mikveh. Jewish life could continue and as a result we saw hardly any assimilation during the Babylonian exile.

However, when the poor Jews of Russia arrived en masse in America at the end of the 19th century -- passing through the famous Ellis Island -- they found no Jewish infrastructure in place. The Jews who had preceded them in the migration of the 1830s were German Jews (about 280,000 of them). These German Jews -- who resented the poorer Russian Jews -- were either Reform, (and did not believe that the Torah was G-d-given nor in any specific G-d-given law that Jews had to keep) or they were secular Jews who totally eschewed Jewish tradition. Thus, the poor Russian Jews stepped into the Golden Land of Assimilation as we shall see in the next installment.

Undoubtedly the Russian church can be criticised for its total submission to the State in the Synodical period (after the abolition of the Patriarchage in the early eighteenth century), for its inability to express an independent opinion and for its failure to demonstrate love for one's neighbour and defence of the persecuted in accordance with the basic teachings of the Gospel: unlike the Western church, the Russian Orthodox Church took no steps to protect the Jews. But once again we must emphasise that unlike the Western churches, antisemitic policies were not conducted in the name of the Russian Orthodox Church.

It does not follow, however, that the clerics and priests of the Russian Orthodox Church were not prone to antisemitic attitudes. The cruellest attacks on Jews can be found in Orthodox polemics, in the sermons and speeches of the most illustrious clerics and hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, from Iosif Volotsky to St John of Kronstadt. At the end of the nineteenth century the antisemitic views of Archbishop Nikon of Vologda, Hieromonk Iliodor (Trufanov), Archpriest Ioann Vostorgov were widely known. These individuals were not expressing an official church position on the Jewish question, which had simply not been formulated; they reflected the widely-held negative attitudes of the general population towards the Jews.

It is important to remember that an equal number of Russian Orthodox clerics, including senior hierarchs, openly defended persecuted Jews, at least from the second half of the nineteenth century. In Russia, perhaps more than in the West, hierarchs of the church and professors in the theological academies refuted the accusations that Jews conducted pogroms and ritual sacrifices and were organising a 'worldwide conspiracy', as they fought for the social rights of Jews (16). Soloviev, Bulgakov, Ilyin and other prominent Russian religious philosophers played an active role in this movement. However, neither the number of speeches by the Christian community, nor the impassioned nature of their appeals on behalf of the Jews, could alter the general hatred of Jews characteristic of the Russian population since medieval times. A corresponding attitude towards the Jews was reflected also in state and religious laws (17).

Given the duty of every Orthodox Christian to be guided by the teachings of the church embodied in Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition, then his/her attitudes towards Jews and Judaism must equally be governed by Holy Tradition, since in accordance with Orthodox teaching the true meaning of Holy Scripture is revealed exclusively through Holy Tradition. However, due to the particular objective social, religious and historical circumstances prevailing at that time, Holy Tradition dating from the period of the holy fathers is suffused with an overt antisemitic spirit. This mood was reflected both in the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils and in the works of the holy fathers, where Jews were called 'murderers of G-d' and 'a despised people'. Generation after generation of Christians were educated in the spirit of this 'teaching of contempt' (to use an expression coined by the French historian J. Isaac) in relation to Jews, which led to the most terrible persecutions of the Jews by Christian society over the last seventeen-hundred years.

As has already been noted, religious hatred of the Jews was for centuries also prevalent in the consciousness of Western Christians. However, the opportunity for the teaching of the church to evolve, seen in the historical experience and practice of the Roman Catholic Church, living in the context of a gradual rejection of the old medieval world view and the growth of anti-clerical tendencies, meant that by the time of the sixteenth century the fathers of the Council of Trent (1545 - 63) had developed the thesis that the guilt of Christians, who continue to crucify the Son of G-d by their own sinfulness, is greater than the guilt attached to the Jews (21). The Second Vatican Council of the Roman Catholic Church cancelled the guilt of the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ and expressed its 'sorrow' for its antisemitism. In the ensuing thirty years the Catholic theological understanding of Israel has undergone further significant changes and definitive progress has been made in Catholic-Jewish relations (22).

Unlike the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church from the outset declared Holy Tradition to be the work of man. This made it possible to reject prevailing medieval anti-Jewish concepts and formulate an independent approach to the Jewish question on the basis of new criteria. Such a step did not entirely rid Protestantism of occasional manifestations of antisemitism, but it gave an opportunity each time to reassess and reformulate their religious and philosophical approaches in the context of a changing society. Following the Holocaust, many Protestant churches adopted a radical position in relation to Jews and Judaism through their categorical rejection of all forms of antisemitism and anti-Judaism, of paternalistic attitudes and ultimately through a rejection of any form of missionary activity among the Jews.

Thus the Western churches had the opportunity in the second half of the twentieth century to develop a new position in relation to Judaism. Unlike them, the Russian Orthodox Church has not taken such steps, being wholly governed by the writings of the holy fathers about the Jews 'who crucified Christ'. Russian Orthodox teaching still rests on medieval preconceptions; thus the most extreme Orthodox antisemites can logically claim that their monstrous anti-Jewish invective is based upon 'Church teaching'.

If, for example, St John Chrysostom, one of the most esteemed church fathers, called the Jews 'unclean and foul' and the synagogue 'a refuge of demons', then, given the accepted sanctity of Holy Tradition, the Orthodox Christian has no cause to think otherwise. Indeed nearly all of the most respected church fathers are not distanced from him in their attitudes towards the Jews, including the most respected church activists from Bishop Ignatiy Bryanchaninov to St John of Kronstadt (23). Conversely, there is to our knowledge not even one church father who has professed a genuine love for the Jews in accordance with the Biblical commandments. In this sense, the position of those modern authors who angrily denounce antisemites, denying that they are 'true' Christians, strikes us as somewhat bizarre (24). Following such logic one could add the most respected pillars of the Orthodox Church to the list of 'pseudo-Christians' and deny the genuineness of their faith, given the sorry two-thousand-year history of Judeo-Christian relations. What, then, is true Christianity?

The Moscow Patriarchate has not reacted in any way to the dozens of openly antisemitic books which have been published by Orthodox authors, nor to the articles published in the fascist and neo-fascist press, calling itself 'Orthodox'. In cathedrals and Orthodox bookstalls it is perfectly possible to buy a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, printed under the title of a book by S. Nielus, Velikoye v malom. In addition, openly antisemitic books have been published from time to time by the church itself (38). The hierarchy makes no response either to the representations of the few clergy and laypeople who are troubled by the problem of antisemitism, nor to the appeals of of Western theologians on the same question (39). Instead, with the exception of Metropolitan Ioann, who had the full support of the first group of believers described above, the remaining Russian Orthodox hierarchs prefer not to touch on the Jewish question at all and not to take any measures in this regard (continuing the long tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church), choosing instead to limit themselves to general appeals for tolerance and hoping to avoid being subjected to criticism from both the conservative and democratic factions in the church (40)

Blood Libel Alive and Well in Russia
Literature distributed in Novosibirsk, Russia, warned gentiles to beware of the Jews, who seek to kidnap their children before Passover in order to murder them and use their blood for matza (the unleavened bread that may only include flour and water according to Jewish law).

"Beware Russian parents,” read the pamphlets, according to Yediot Acharonot. “Keep watch over your children before the coming of April 2008, the Jewish holiday of Passover. These disgusting people still engage in ritual practice to their gods. They kidnap small children and remove some of their blood and use it to prepare their holy food. They throw the bodies out in garbage dumps.”

The "blood libel" regarding Jews and their supposed use of children's blood for making matzas dates back to 12th century England, and has served as an excuse for anti-Jewish violence on numerous occasions since.

Jews in Novosibirsk say the pamphlets are just the tip of the iceberg, and that anti-Jewish graffiti can be seen all over the region. Just 13,000 Jews live in the Novosibirsk region, which is located in Siberia.

PLEASE READ:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire
http://www.jcrelations.net/en/?id=787
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSpogroms.htm
http://www.jewishmag.com/77mag/czarpurim/czarpurim.htm
http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000416.html
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/88361.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125633
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071029223230AAU24vl
http://www.St o rmFr o nt.org/forum/showthread.php?t=288814

Holocaust/Pogrom Denial is a Sin Against G-d.. All who deny will be destroyed by Hashem.  I will fight against all holocaust/pogrom deniers!!!




Song Annatevka from Fiddler on Roof.  The scene in movie takes place after the Tzar orders all Jews to leave their village or be put to death.  Beautiful song.

[Boyana]

Shalom to all of you dear Jewish friends and Bog Pomogo my  dear Serbians,
My husband is Jewish,my parents are Serbians,I was born in UK.
Lets love each another,since not many people Today  like any of us.
On one of the Serbian forum,I have been warn that they will ban me since I said
something ,just simple words taht I hate RED low-lifes and anti Jewish members on the forum.
Well I am mother ,and will not start  puting   yellow star on my liittle boys to please somebody.
If I have to purchase gun I will in near future.
Peace and Love to to you all.

[DALMACIJA]

You can not compare the Jewish Destiny in Russia, Serbia and in other Orthodox countries with the Jewish fate in the former fascist countries. I am not going to buy your lies against Orthodox Serbia and Tsarist Russia.


You are right about this one that many Jews were indeed involved in the communist revolution in the year of 1917.
 
The commanders of the red army and the influential politicians of the USSR as well as the theoreticians (Trotsky) were Jews.

The Tsar and his family was in 1918 captured by Jewish communists and executed in cold blood by Czecha Jews.

To kill the Tsar Nikochals II  was a very, very horrible crime.
They did not need to humiliate the Russian nations like that. The Tsar did not deserved to be killed, together with this wife and children, in cold blood. 

During the USSR 56 million Orthodox citizens were murdered by the Bolshevik regime. 
You can not compare the attitude of the Tsar towards the Jews, with the murdering of 50 million Orthodox Russians - frim 1917 until 1988.
 
We can do some research on this together.
Find names and backgrond information of USSR politicians, theoreticians  and Stalin's agents. They you will see that there were many Jews present in the USSR government.

You know what happened to Orthodox churches and people during USSR?

[AryehYehudah]

You can not compare the Jewish Destiny in Russia, Serbia and in other Orthodox countries with the Jewish fate in the former fascist countries. I am not going to buy your lies against Orthodox Serbia and Tsarist Russia.

Yes, you paint a lying fantasy that Russians and Orthodox treated Jews fairly.  You are just same as Arab and European holocaust deniers.  You deny the oppression and pogroms Russians did to Jews.

You are right about this one that many Jews were indeed involved in the communist revolution in the year of 1917.
 
The commanders of the red army and the influential politicians of the USSR as well as the theoreticians (Trotsky) were Jews.

The Tsar and his family was in 1918 captured by Jewish communists and executed in cold blood by Czecha Jews.

To kill the Tsar Nikochals II  was a very, very horrible crime.
They did not need to humiliate the Russian nations like that. The Tsar did not deserved to be killed, together with this wife and children, in cold blood. 

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.  Praise Hashem that such a brutal criminal was finally put to death.  Yes, those Jews joined Bolsheviks out of desperation, because your slavic brothers were torturing, murdering, stealing and raping our people.  You are an ignorant person and I wouldn't be suprise with how you talk, if you are not a Blood and HOnor member in private, infiltrating this site.  Really, I think there is many good Serbians on this site and they are more respectful than you are.  They are open to conversation and looking over the history of Jews.  They don't go painting a fantasy of the life of Jews in Eastern Europe like you do.  I noticed your last few posts are about Jews and how they are contributing to the destruction of Kosovo.  You are only confirming my original fear of why I posted this thread of "Blood and Honor in Serbia".  They are making the same false claims that "Jews" are behind the destruction of Serbia.  Do I complain that some of your generals in Serbia joined Hitler and helped massacre some Jews during WWII?  However, you focus very much on how a few rogue Jews contributed to Kosovo crisis. 

Anti-Semitic pogroms of 1903-1906
Main article: Kishinev pogrom
The administration of Nicholas II published anti-Semitic propaganda that encouraged people to riot in various parts of the Pale of Settlement, resulting in the pogroms of 1903-1906. Viacheslav Plehve, the Minister of the Interior, paid the Kishinev newspaper "Bessarabets" for anti-Semitic material, and the press during the Russo-Japanese War accused the Jews of being a fifth column. This accusation encouraged the eruption of numerous pogroms, especially after Russia lost the war. Pogroms also resulted from the government's reaction to the 1905 revolution. [12]

During the USSR 56 million Orthodox citizens were murdered by the Bolshevik regime. 
You can not compare the attitude of the Tsar towards the Jews, with the murdering of 50 million Orthodox Russians - frim 1917 until 1988.
 
We can do some research on this together.
Find names and backgrond information of USSR politicians, theoreticians  and Stalin's agents. They you will see that there were many Jews present in the USSR government.

You know what happened to Orthodox churches and people during USSR?

Once again, your hero the Tzar and the Orthodox church created great atrocities against both Jews and even the RUssian people.  THey joined the communists out of blind ignorance thinking they would bring freddom and a solution.  Of course, it all backfired when they realized that the communists were just as bad and worse than Tsar.  Stalin, himself was an athiest version of the Tsar.  He, more or less carried out the same atrocities and to a greater degree. Whereas the Tsar would massacre Jews for refusing to convert to Orthodox CHristianity, Stalin would massacre Jews for refusing to accept athiesm and denying their Jewish identity.   

I sent this post to some other Jewish members, to see how they feel about your heretical comments about the denying of the treatment of Jews in Tsarist Russia.

Once again, I want Serbians to know I support them and will never deny their history of suffering at the hands their enemies, like Dalmacija denies our history of suffering under Tsarist and Christian rule.   I know not all Christians and countries are the same.  I feel that we do have a great ally with many Serbians and I am honored to see how Jews and Kosovo people united together for hundreds of years and suffered persecution from muslims together, still united.  Again, I think the Serbians or their Orthodox church are not responsible for any wrongdoings to Jews.  MY argument is against Russia and its holocaust it made agaisnt the Jewish people.

[muman613]

Shalom,

The worst Pogrom which I am reminded of every day is the Massacre of Uman which occured in 1768 in the city of Uman. Here is the information which is posted on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
The Masscre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews and Poles at Uman, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian Haidamak rebel army.

Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. It is known for a fact[citation needed] that Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. It also should be noted that although Ivan Gonta was de-facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.

In early June of 1768 the leader of the Ukrainian rebels Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops that outnumbered the forces of rebels, and, therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.

The united troops razed the encampment on June 14th and tried to penetrate the ramparts by hiding the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17th. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.

After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed.

Most historians[who?] give an estimate of number of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” as to be between 12,000 and 20,000 (it includes Polish army units and private militia). The most conservative estimate is given by Gonta during his trial (2,000) while some of the Jewish historians[who?] put the number close to 50,000. The anniversary of the commencement of the massacre, Tammuz 5, henceforth known as the “Evil Decree of Uman,” was observed as a fast and by a special prayer. Nachman of Breslov settled in Uman, and before his death there, he said, “the souls of the martyrs (slaughtered by Gonta) await me”. After his death in 1811, the Hasidim of Breslov used to come to Uman in large numbers to prostrate themselves at his grave.

This is why I will remember what Russians did to my family...

muman613

[Spectator]

Shalom,

The worst Pogrom which I am reminded of every day is the Massacre of Uman which occured in 1768 in the city of Uman. Here is the information which is posted on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
The Masscre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews and Poles at Uman, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian Haidamak rebel army.

Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. It is known for a fact[citation needed] that Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. It also should be noted that although Ivan Gonta was de-facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.

In early June of 1768 the leader of the Ukrainian rebels Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops that outnumbered the forces of rebels, and, therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.

The united troops razed the encampment on June 14th and tried to penetrate the ramparts by hiding the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17th. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.

After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed.

Most historians[who?] give an estimate of number of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” as to be between 12,000 and 20,000 (it includes Polish army units and private militia). The most conservative estimate is given by Gonta during his trial (2,000) while some of the Jewish historians[who?] put the number close to 50,000. The anniversary of the commencement of the massacre, Tammuz 5, henceforth known as the “Evil Decree of Uman,” was observed as a fast and by a special prayer. Nachman of Breslov settled in Uman, and before his death there, he said, “the souls of the martyrs (slaughtered by Gonta) await me”. After his death in 1811, the Hasidim of Breslov used to come to Uman in large numbers to prostrate themselves at his grave.

This is why I will remember what Russians did to my family...

muman613

IMHO, your information is right, yet the conclusion is wrong. The crime was committed by Ukrainians, yet you blame Russia. Despite Russians and Ukrainians are close relatives, they have different langaguages and mentalities. They had many quarrels in the past and even several wars. And today they have many disputes.

Russians and Ukrainians are not less as different as Serbs and Croats are.
On zootube I often see as Croats and Ukrainians unite against Serbs and Russians. Croats and Ukrainians sided with Nazis in WW II, while Serbs and Russians fought and defeated them

By the way, today America supports Croats and Ukrainians against Serbs and Russians.

[DALMACIJA]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II. 

SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS.        You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...

I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...

I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"

PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....

[AsheDina]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II. 

SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS.        You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...

I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...

I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"

PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....

  Dalmacija..
        Fine, BELIEVE what YOU believe, but you are NOT walking in LOVE as YOUR book COMMANDS.
 It PLAINLY says in YOUR book that if your FOOD offends people YOU ARE NO LONGER WALKING IN LOVE.

  Actually it is us JEWISH people, here on THIS forum that need to be asking HaShem to forgive YOU.

   Go back and READ YOUR OWN BOOK.
   Any REAL Christian KNOWS the suffering for almost 2000 years that has been INFLICTED on Jewish people- my own family FORCED into EXILE b/c of the Spanish Inquisition with FORCED indoctrinations.

  It is ALSO written in YOUR book to "TAKE THE PLANK OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, before removing the SPEC from your BROTHERS eye!                     REPENT!
  Another thing....where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??

  THE JEWS- JUDAISM.
  Now GO and REPENT, and leave my brethren ALONE.

[DALMACIJA]

AsheDina   

You guys have nice words and nice talks but in practice its all different..

Is not it....?

[DALMACIJA]

where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??

I do not understand you correctly?

[AryehYehudah]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II. 

SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS.        You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...

I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...

I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"

PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....

I bet you never cried when the lives of innocent Jews were butchered, brutalized, raped, pillaged and their homes destroyed by your piece of sh*t Tzar.   I will tell you, if JTF will start sponsoring and defending the Tzar, I will leave and never come back to this site.  There is enough self-hating Jews and Jew haters like you to go around the world a thousand times.  I am sick of the crap you post.  Save your stupid Tzar-loving speech for your StørmFrønt or BLood and Honor accounts, on JTF you keep your mouth shut about the Tzar as a hero,  I hope you understand?   If I start honoring the King of Albania as a hero, you would feel likewise.  Maybe some of our moderators are sleeping in bed with people like you (SELF-HATING JEW SYNDROME), but I and other JEws are ready to do what we can to stop you.   You are , indeed, the most dangerous member on JTF website and promote an anti-semitic agenda here, which I am shocked is tolerated.  Don't go crying to Jesus , I am tired of the hypocrisy of your type of religion.  I am sick of being your "CHrist Killer" .  The G-d of Israel is one who has no respect of persons and will punish evildoers for their crimes, regardless of race.  Your Tzar met the fate of Our G-d, Hashem and what a horrible fate he met!   Just realize that Hashem punished Tzar for torturing, brutalizing and making a mockery of our race and heritage.  Your stupid Tzar.  Tzar Shmar!   You can go crying and mourning for your Tzar and praying to Jesus that the evil Kike/Zhid named AryehYehudah gets bashed on the head by neo-nazis; but Hashem is with me and he will defend his inheritance Ya'akov/Yisro'el!  He will come to defend Lady Tzyon.  Even when your Tzar was forcing us to be converted to Orthodox CHristians and murdering us in villages, we never succumbed.  I will not succumb to you.  Many Jews resisted the Bolsheviks the same way.  Your slavic brethren (Russians, Ukranians, Poles), help to brutalize our race for generations.   

You should give some respect for the Jewish people and their history and stop spewing your Anti-Semtic hating crap on this site.  Its enough you constantly bad mouth USA and all its people and history.  But, if you want to go calling us Jews the murderers of your blood-thirsty, selfish, Jew hating Tzar, you got another thing coming buddy!   


Spectator:
Whoever, claims Ukranians were not under the Russian wing is fooling themself.  Ukranians and Russians worked in one accord in their tyrannical oppression of the Jews.  Ukranians are hardly any different in mindset than their Russian comrades.  And FYI, the pogrom that Muman is describing was just one of many, many, many.   Did you ever make any comment on the hundreds of pogroms the Russians have done to Jews at the order of the the Tzar? 

[4International]

Once again, I want Serbians to know I support them and will never deny their history of suffering at the hands their enemies, like Dalmacija denies our history of suffering under Tsarist and Christian rule.   I know not all Christians and countries are the same.  I feel that we do have a great ally with many Serbians and I am honored to see how Jews and Kosovo [Serbian] people united together for hundreds of years and suffered persecution from muslims together, still united.  Again, I think the Serbians or their Orthodox church are not responsible for any wrongdoings to Jews.  MY argument is against Russia and its holocaust it made against the Jewish people.

Shalom brother AryehYehudah,

That is precisely what I think too. I too fully support the Serbian Orthodox church and the Serbian Orthodox people just like you do.Acknowledging the pogroms which happened to the Jews under Tsarist Russia is NOT an attack on all Orthodox Christians. I think because brother Dalmacija is a strict religious observer of the Orthodox Christian faith  he feels deeply offended if if he feels someone is attacking his faith. That is completely normal and understandable.

Criticism of the Russian perpetrators of the anti-Jewish pogroms that occurred in Tsarist Russia does NOT amount to attacking Serbia and the Serbian Orthodox church. We Jews have no quarrel with the Serbian people or their Orthodox Christian faith. However we must acknowledge that many Russian Orthodox believers in the 19th and 18th century under the rule of the Russian Tsars were antisemitic and engaged in anti-Jewish pogroms.

However that does not mean that I now condemn every single Russian,Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbian etc.,Orthodox Christian person on the face of this earth for the pogroms which occurred in Tsarist Russia during the 19th and 18th centuries.

Likewise, I don't blame every single Orthodox Christian or Russian today for what Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky - head of the Tsar's secret police [the Okhrana] - did by writing and disseminating the notorious forgery known as the "Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion" - much of which was based on Maurice Joly's novel "Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" and an antisemitic novel called "Biarritz" by a Prussian [German] secret police informer named Hermann Goedsche.

However I do expect Russians and their Orthodox Christian allies to acknowledge that this happened. We cannot pretend that this never happened. I understand that Dalmacija is a deeply religious Orthodox Christian and views the Russian people as his blood brothers and sisters, so I can understand that he wishes to protect the Russians who belong to the Russian Orthodox church which he says is the same as the Serbian Orthodox church. But history has proven that the Russians and Serbians - despite having the same Orthodox Christian faith - are NOT the same people in terms of their attitudes towards the Jews.

The same applies to Roman Catholic countries and believers - not all of the Roman Catholic peoples' attitudes towards the Jews - or  indeed their attitudes towards Nazism/Fascism and Adolph Hitler's Nazi party during the Holocaust of European Jewry were/are the same.All we need to do is look at how Croatia today is an openly Nazi [Ustasha] admiring country to see that.

I also expect decent, righteous Roman Catholics to acknowledge the massive crimes of genocide against 1.2 Million Serbs, Jews and Roma that occurred in the Vatican-supported Ustasha Nazi Croatia during the Holocaust in Yugoslavia from 1941 to 1945. In bringing this issue up, we Jews are NOT attacking ALL Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith. We also expect Roman Catholics to acknowledge that we Jews cannot agree with the beatification of Pope Pius XII and the Croat Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac known as the "Patron Saint of Genocide" during the Holocaust in Ustasha Croatia from 1941 to 1945. Also, Jews in Israel have the right to hold exhibitions and have exhibits in museums exposing Pope Pius XII's role and close relationship with Nazi Germany and Ustasha Croatia during the Holocaust.
 
Like I said before, I understand that Russia and Serbia have a deep religious and Slavic blood connection and  that Russians and Serbs fought heroically over many centuries against the evil Ottoman Islamic savages - especially during the so-called "Russo-Turkish" wars of the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.

That history of immense sacrifice - with millions of Russians fighting and dying for freedom and liberty against the Ottoman Islamic savage beasts is wonderful, but we also need to look at the historical facts about what happened to Jews during the time of Tsarist Russia with the anti-Jewish pogroms and acknowledge that it happened and was a terrible tragedy for the Jewish people. I am sure that brother Dalmacija fully agrees with me on this despite his misunderstandings and differences of opinion with brother AryehYehudah over the course of several debates here on JTF.


Shalom,

Joshua.

[4International]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II. 

SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS.        You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...

I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...

I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"

PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....

  Dalmacija..
        Fine, BELIEVE what YOU believe, but you are NOT walking in LOVE as YOUR book COMMANDS.
 It PLAINLY says in YOUR book that if your FOOD offends people YOU ARE NO LONGER WALKING IN LOVE.

  Actually it is us JEWISH people, here on THIS forum that need to be asking HaShem to forgive YOU.

   Go back and READ YOUR OWN BOOK.
   Any REAL Christian KNOWS the suffering for almost 2000 years that has been INFLICTED on Jewish people- my own family FORCED into EXILE b/c of the Spanish Inquisition with FORCED indoctrinations.

  It is ALSO written in YOUR book to "TAKE THE PLANK OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, before removing the SPEC from your BROTHERS eye!                     REPENT!
  Another thing....where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??

  THE JEWS- JUDAISM.
  Now GO and REPENT, and leave my brethren ALONE.

Shalom sister Paulette,

I can understand where you are coming from and agree with what you are trying to say here, but PLEASE, I implore both you and brother Dalmacija,  let's not turn this into another "rabble rousing" style of partisan religious/ethnic tit-for-tat type of verbal warfare of "us" versus "them". We are ALL brothers and sisters here fighting the good fight of faith against our enemies TODAY - the Islamofascist savages, communists/socialists and Nazi beasts trying to take over and destroy our great country and all of Western civilization - so we must remain UNITED against our evil enemies and not attack each other in an ad hominem and personal way.

I also implore dear brother AryehYehudah and brother Dalmacija to please remember this important fact of why we are all here on JTF and to PLEASE debate each other and express differences of opinion without resorting to personal attacks and insults against each other.


Shalom,

Joshua.

[Spectator]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.  

Ahi, you are completely wrong. The Judaism teaches that we must pray for the kings because they are the source of order. Even a bad Tsar is better than anarchy. When there's an anarchy, people mass kill each other without any fear. This very thing happened after Nicholas II was killed.

You should also know that when Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812, he promised freedom of religion and civil rights to the Russian Jews.  Yet the great Alter Rebbe (known also as Rabbi Shenur Zalman from Liady) supported Russian Tsar Alexander! He knew that the Napoleon's "emancipation" will make the Jews more rich but at the same time it will lead to spiritual degradation and assimilation. On the other hand, in Russia Jews will probably live in poverty but their beleif in G-d will only be stronger. The Rebbe has sent several Jews as spies to the French army, who occupid high posts there and provided the Russians with military intelligence. Rebbe's tribute to the victory was noticed by Tsar Alexander who gave him the title of Honorable Citizen. Five generations of Chabad Rabbis benefited from this title to make the life of Russsian Jews better.

Aryeh Yehuda,

I don't want to say that there was no oppression of Jews in Russia. But it was no stronger than in European countries. It is not proper to use the word "holocaust" while describing Russian attitude to the Jews. And don't mention Bogdan Khmelnitsky who committed mass kill of the Jews in 17th century, he and his army were Ukrainians.

The Ukrainians ans Russians are different. I was born in Belarus and lived there for 20 years. I know exactly that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are different peoples. I know exactly that Ukrainans as a nation are more antisemitic and most of pogroms were in the Ukraine.

While being generally oppressive to the Jews, the Russian state sometimes did very good things to us. They vanquished German Nazis. They liberated Auszwitz. They supplied arms to Israel through Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in 1948, when the IDF was just born and suffered a great arms shortage. And if you say that they were doing it in their own interest, I also state that America helps Israel in its own interest too.

[AryehYehudah]

Shalom Joshua,
You are a very intelligent person and I respect your post you just made.  Just know that I have gained much respect for Serbia and its people.  I, originally, posted this post not to degrade Serbians, but to hear their feelings of false teachings that neo-Nazis, Blood and HOnor, have been promoting.  Unless you are blind and dumb, you can easily find neo-nazi and other Jew hating websites that are promoting many pro-Serb articles and many of them look to Milosevic as a hero.  This has brought fear to me and other Jews that Serbians may get tricked into joining this movement, as a small number have done, due to the fact that they have been abused by the Western World and need an outlet.  I am happy to see many Serbians are resisting neo-nazis and white nationalists and brushing off the praise that they get from these people.  However,  I wanted to address this to the Serbians on the forum and see that we can share.

However, Dalmacija made some very bad responses on the subject, slandering me, calling me bad names.  Then he starts making anti-semitic rants claiming the Jews murdered the Tzar in cold blood and that many Jews support the death of Serbia.  In effect, he was sayign the very same thigns, I fear that any Serbian would say about our people.  Joshua, I know you really have a deep love of Serbia and feel sad for the oppression that was done to them, but I hope you can see the type of things Dalmacija are saying are highly offensive to the Jewish people.  I have apologized for the slanders I made against Serbia's church when I first came to JTF.  This was done out of ignorance.  However, Dalmacija constantly makes slanders to our people and, not only does he not apologize, he seems to just make more and more.  

How can JTF accept a person on their site who says the JEws murdered the Tzar in cold blood?  This belongs on Blood and HOnor website, not JTF.  Please, brother Joshua, I plead to you, to look deeper at what he says, and stop trying to make everyone look innocent.  Please, being a religious Christian, doesn't mean you get to deny the suffering of people.  You made great points and I agree with you achei Joshua, 100%  

As for Serbs, please remember our heritage and suffer and us Jews will be your achim (Brothers) in arms..  We will fight and die by your side..  As for those self-hating Jews that Dalmacija is ranting about; well, just know that there are self-hating Serbians to who did come to the side of nazis.  So, neither us Jews or you Serbians are innocent.  However, we will remove the despots from our ranks and unite the holy and righteous people together.  

This is my plead to JTF: Jews, Serbians , please do not deny our Jewish history.  DOn't let people like Dalmacija say that Jews murderd the Tsar in cold-blood or that saying bad Jews are more dangerous to Serbia than neo-nazis are to us Jews.  I know real Serbs will also look down on the tyranny of the Tsar and unite with their Israelite brothers and end the repressive policies of tyrants.  

G-d bless Serbia and Milosevic for being brave and defending Jews and fighting Islamonazi demons.

[DALMACIJA]

AryehYehudah

What about 56 million Russians which were killed by Bolshevik Jews?

[Shlomo]

I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.

That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.

They will stop! I know that!

Yes, you are right, Jasmina. It will stop now.

Dalmacija, I have warned you so many times over and over again. I have stood up for you when you were almost banned in the past. Now, you start more fights and respond cruelly, breaking most of the rules of the forum and showing complete disregard to me and the other members of the forum. I'm tired of wasting my time on this nonsense when all the other replies handled the issue calmly with maturity and dignity. It seems like you can't help yourself, start out calling everyone nazis, threaten people, and that you refuse to control your temper.

Dalmacija, you are banned.

[AryehYehudah]

I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.  

Ahi, you are completely wrong. The Judaism teaches that we must pray for the kings because they are the source of order. Even a bad Tsar is better than anarchy. When there's an anarchy, people mass kill each other without any fear. This very thing happened after Nicholas II was killed.

Did we pray for Nebuchadenezzar when he destroyed our temple and put us into slavery?  We must pray for our own kings, but not for kings who oppress us and force us to lose our religion and heritage.  DId you forget the Tsar tried to force Jews to become Christians and repressed us from writing in our language or practicing our religion?   Chaver, you really are very confused and seem to lack some knowledge of Russian history from Western standpoint; I think as you say you live in Belarusl; you were educated and brainwashed under the Soviets.

You should also know that when Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812, he promised freedom of religion and civil rights to the Russian Jews.  Yet the great Alter Rebbe (known also as Rabbi Shenur Zalman from Liady) supported Russian Tsar Alexander! He knew that the Napoleon's "emancipation" will make the Jews more rich but at the same time it will lead to spiritual degradation and assimilation. On the other hand, in Russia Jews will probably live in poverty but their beleif in G-d will only be stronger. The Rebbe has sent several Jews as spies to the French army, who occupid high posts there and provided the Russians with military intelligence. Rebbe's tribute to the victory was noticed by Tsar Alexander who gave him the title of Honorable Citizen. Five generations of Chabad Rabbis benefited from this title to make the life of Russsian Jews better.

Well, there was Rabbis who helped King (FUhrer) Adolf Hitler too?  So what?  Ever heard of the Judenratt?  Many Jews shunned the British, Russians and knew Germany and its people were their homeland.  Well, according to your logic, we should have not rebelled against Adolf Hitler either, since he was a king.  Sure he tried to genocide our race, but it would have only made us stronger people; after all, being in Auschwitz and being starved and worked to death, then gassed, bring us much closer to Hashem.  How about being under the rule of Caesar?  Did you mind that he use to feed Jews to lions for entertainment?  Any king who will make war against El'keynu (Our G-d) is no king in the eyes of Hashem.  Yes, that same Tsar who honored Rabbis refused to let any Jews become officers, regardless of the fact some faught harder and risked their life for Russia.  We were always treated as inferior subspecies of humans, like animals.  WHy should we honor such a tyrant as a king?  Hashem knows a true king; he is ANoited By Hashem!  These kings are not Anoited of Hashem.

Aryeh Yehuda,

I don't want to say that there was no oppression of Jews in Russia. But it was no stronger than in European countries. It is not proper to use the word "holocaust" while describing Russian attitude to the Jews. And don't mention Bogdan Khmelnitsky who committed mass kill of the Jews in 17th century, he and his army were Ukrainians.

You cannot say there is no opression of Jews in Russia.  That would be absurd.
Jews were treated much worse in Russia, Ukraine, Poland than elsewhere in Europe.  Many Jews escaped to Germany, just to get some relief to the horrific treatment they faced.  Of course, later in time, the Jews would face worse treatment in the Third Reich, but that is a different story altogether.  Many Jews were much happier under Kaiser than the Tsar.  

The Ukrainians ans Russians are different. I was born in Belarus and lived there for 20 years. I know exactly that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are different peoples. I know exactly that Ukrainans as a nation are more antisemitic and most of pogroms were in the Ukraine.

While being generally oppressive to the Jews, the Russian state sometimes did very good things to us. They vanquished German Nazis. They liberated Auszwitz. They supplied arms to Israel through Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in 1948, when the IDF was just born and suffered a great arms shortage. And if you say that they were doing it in their own interest, I also state that America helps Israel in its own interest too.

They did not do good things for the love of Jews.  You know those same Russians wanted to make an allegiance with Adolf Hitler.  However, Adolf Hitler refused to align with inferior slavic/mongoloid bolsheviks and wanted them all destroyed.  So, of course, the Russians had to fight.  THey did not free Auschwitz out of the kindness of their hearts; but rather it was just another military target of the Germans that had to be destoyed.

The Russians supplied arms to Israel?  That is rubbish.  THe Russians supplied arms to Arabs and all of Israel's enemies ever since Israel's birth.  Almost every weapon that Arabs/Persians can boast of today came from the Russians.  Excluding, the Saudis of course!  The Russians did all in their power to destroy the rogue state of Israel, who refused to be another Russian communist puppet state.  Yes, go study a bit of history about 1948 war , Six Day war and Yom Kippur War.  Where those arabs flying Migs or American jets?  Were those arabs armed with M-16s or AK-47s?  All of the sopshiticated arab artillery and military equipment was supplied, courtesy of the Russian empire.   hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Shlomo]

AryehYehudah, I just banned Dalmacija for fighting.

You are a good Jew and a very intelligent person. Please debate calmly and respectfully. I do not need more fighting.

[AryehYehudah]

I understand Shlomo. Sorry for my anger..   Really,  I do have a bit of temper problem at times.. May G-d forgive me and I pray to stop.   I never intended to get in a quarrel here.  Really, I was just about ready to leave this thread behind, because the other Serbians made me happy with their response.  Then I was insulted by Dalmacija.  I apologize for getting hot tempered.  No matter what people say, I must approach my arguments in a calm, well-constructed manner.   I give much respect to Joshua (4International) and others for being more cool-headed in their refutations and posts than myself.  Please, I am sorry..  This is very emotional subject for me..  I will not let my emotions get the best of me..   

[q_q_]

I understand Shlomo. Sorry for my anger..   Really,  I do have a bit of temper problem at times.. May G-d forgive me and I pray to stop.   I never intended to get in a quarrel here.  Really, I was just about ready to leave this thread behind, because the other Serbians made me happy with their response.  Then I was insulted by Dalmacija.  I apologize for getting hot tempered.  No matter what people say, I must approach my arguments in a calm, well-constructed manner.   I give much respect to Joshua (4International) and others for being more cool-headed in their refutations and posts than myself.  Please, I am sorry..  This is very emotional subject for me..  I will not let my emotions get the best of me..   

You did provoke him quite a bit. Saying he was "crying" for example.

He was actually fairly objective.  You were just talking generally about russian anti-semitism.  I doubt he was denying it, you didn't really discuss things rationally with him.

He shouldn't have tried to discuss things with you for so long.

4international would have been able to argue facts with him.. and it looks like he has in the past.

[Spectator]

Oops, Dalmacija was juat banned.. Here's what I was going answer him about Bolshevik Jews:

Dalmacija,

You should know the following more facts about those Bolsheviks of Jewish origin:

1. They abandoned the Jewish Tradition and served an monstrous Communist idea that is completely alien to Judaism. Hafetz Chaim, the great rabbi of the Jews at that time, cursed those people.

2. They severely persecuted and killed their fellow Jews who remained loyal to the Jewish way.

3. The committed a deadly sin of Hillul HaShem - Desecration of G-d's name. While being Jewish, they committed great crimes and threby gave the ground to antisemites who mention their deeds when they balme or attack Jews.

4. Their crimes didn't go unpunished. While having high posts in the government, those Bolshevik Jews were not the ultimate rulers of Russia. They ALL were killed in the same vaults by the same means they were killing others. 

[4International]

However, Dalmacija made some very bad responses on the subject, slandering me, calling me bad names.  Then he starts making anti-semitic rants claiming the Jews murdered the Tzar in cold blood and that many Jews support the death of Serbia.  In effect, he was sayign the very same thigns, I fear that any Serbian would say about our people.  Joshua, I know you really have a deep love of Serbia and feel sad for the oppression that was done to them, but I hope you can see the type of things Dalmacija are saying are highly offensive to the Jewish people.  I have apologized for the slanders I made against Serbia's church when I first came to JTF.  This was done out of ignorance.  However, Dalmacija constantly makes slanders to our people and, not only does he not apologize, he seems to just make more and more.  

How can JTF accept a person on their site who says the JEws murdered the Tzar in cold blood?  This belongs on Blood and HOnor website, not JTF.  Please, brother Joshua, I plead to you, to look deeper at what he says, and stop trying to make everyone look innocent.  Please, being a religious Christian, doesn't mean you get to deny the suffering of people.  You made great points and I agree with you achei Joshua, 100%  


Shalom brother AryehYehudah,

you see I was just about to do precisely just that - what you just suggested. I was just about to write to brother Dalmacija privately, but unfortunately I was too late!! I feel very sad that this has happened but I could see it coming. You see this is what happens when people lose their cool. I have been provoked by numerous people on many occasions on the internet [even sadly, once or twice here on JTF] and I always try and respond respectfully to people and understand their point of view by reading between the lines.

I wasn't trying to make anybody here look innocent - instead I was trying to understand their heart and soul and why they think the way they do. I always try and correct them whenever I can when I believe that what they are saying is wrong. But I always show RESPECT and COURTESY and never engage in ad hominem name calling.

I know brother Dalmacija has a good heart because I have spoken to him privately on many occasions and he really spilled his guts to me. He really trusts me and expressed his deep love for Israel and the Jewish people so many times and was absolutely and unequivocally sincere about it.He never once showed any sympathy or empathy for any kind of Fascist, white supremacist or neo-Nazi cause even once. Quite the contrary - he said that he can't stand those people and that being a Nazi, Fascist or white supremacist means you automatically STOP BEING A SERB and stop being an Orthodox Christian. I never heard anyone put it quite like that before.

I can understand his immense feelings of rage, hurt, anger and frustration at the enormous suffering of his people in Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo at the hands of the Clinton and Bush administrations - supporting the Islamic Bosnian and Albanian savages and the Croat Ustasha Nazis - which Chaim himself has discussed on numerous occasions in many JTF videos [especially the one called "The Betrayal of the Heroic Serbs".

It is such a shame that brother Dalmacija wears his heart on his sleeve - being so sensitive means he so easily loses his temper and says some unbelievably stupid things which deep down he doesn't really believe at all. He lost his temper yet again today and this time was banned by brotehr Shlomo as a result. I warned him that this could easily happen and unfortunately for him, it did. I am sorry to see that JTF has lost such a good Serbian member as a result.


Shalom,

Joshua.

[AryehYehudah]

You did provoke him quite a bit. Saying he was "crying" for example.

He also provoked me quite a bit too.  Well, that was a figure of speech, meaning he was making yelling out..  Did you happen to notice he called me a nazi?  I guess you will side with him , that is ok..  I am not going to quarrel with you to.  Q_Q.  I have seen your posts and I know you are a person who likes to get in arguments with people and also I have seen you antagnoize many members on this board.  I will not engage with you.   I don't think you mind when you provoke people.

He was actually fairly objective.  You were just talking generally about russian anti-semitism.  I doubt he was denying it, you didn't really discuss things rationally with him.

He shouldn't have tried to discuss things with you for so long.

Oh Gosh.. Lol.. yeah sure he was..  He wrote that the Jews murdered 56,000,000 Russians and that the Jews murdered The Tsar in cold-blood.  That is objective?


Hey, I am not arguing here!  I am just defending myself against false accusations that QQ is bringing against me..      Personally, I think QQ is just making broad generalizations.  He has refused to read a majority of this thread.



Shalom Alecheim.

[Shlomo]

I am going to lock this thread. I can tell that emotions are running high and I think it's for the best.