Celebrate Shabbat instead of Halloween Tonight.

[q_q_]

Already did this I stopped Halloween 5 years ago

I suspect that your voice dropped too

[muman613]

Ethics of the Fathers

Mishnah 2:4

4.He would also say: Make that His will should be your will, so that He should make your will to be as His will. Nullify your will before His will, so that He should nullify the will of others before your will.

Hillel would say: Do not separate yourself from the community. Do not believe in yourself until the day you die. Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place. Do not say something that is not readily understood in the belief that it will ultimately be understood [or: Do not say something that ought not to be heard even in the strictest confidence, for ultimately it will be heard]. And do not say "When I free myself of my concerns, I will study,'' for perhaps you will never free yourself.

[Dr. Dan]

I disagree.  There are some Jews who might not normally be shomer shabbat to the standards of Orthodox Jews, but will, on occasion know about Shabbat and hold a shabbatone that comes at least close to the standards of Orthodox Judaism.  Any Jew who can, whether Orthodox or secular, hold a shabbatone and encourage other Jews, in particular secular non-orthodox ones, to partake in a particular night instead of a pagan or nonJewish holiday is doing a huge mitzva...maybe not as big as a typical orthodox Jew who automatically is shomer shabbat...however a secular jew who rarely ever keeps it and decides to have a conscious of doing something he normally doesn't do and encourages other non othodox jews to partake in shabbat during an otherwise pagan day is doing a huuuuge mitzva also. QQ, it seems that you are thumb your nose at those situations. Let me konw if i'm wrong.

Obviously it's likely that G-d would appreciate the thought..

The recipients may experience something good, but not really a shabbat atmosphere. Infact, I seriously doubt that they would even be eating kosher food. 

It takes alot of experience to create a good shabbat atmosphere. Even many modern orthodox people twiddle their thumbs over shabbat and it's not really something I would suggest inviting others to.

Dan, you don't have to answer this of course, but assuming you keep shabbat, in that you don't use the internet, don't turn lights on and off.
Have you ever experienced a bad shabbat.. ?
Have you ever experienced a shabbat at black hat relatives?
Can you describe and contrast the two?

I don't think people really have the background to understand my post. Usually people just lack the intelligence.
 

I will respond to some things on this post, but not everything for the reason that there might be some answers that you would rather hear on private message for the reason you gave me way back when on private messenger..although i'm not embarrassed by it.

1. question one-is for private messenger
2. never experienced a bad shabbat-shomer or non-shomer
3. I don't have black hat relatives.
4. Shabbat is shabbat...family and friends sitting together and enjoying time together and resting together and goign to shul together and having lunch and dinner together and playign games together.  Some like to study texts..it is what it is...shabbat is meant for rest..so, rest should be enjoyed.


As far as kosher food..of course on shabbat it should be idealy kosher...but kosher food in a non-shomer home, in my opinion defeats the whole point of shabbat versus non glatt kosher food in a home that attempts to create a shomer atmosphere (and this is with Jews who are not yeshiva trained or have a poor understanding of kashrut, but have good intentions for having a shabbat atmosphere).  So yes, kosher food is the way to go if one is going to do a shomer type dinner..but if we are talking about a jew who has good intentions but doesn't know any better, his attempt to make it a shomer type atmosphere even if the food isn't pefectly kosher to the orthodox standard shouldn't be frowned upon and have an orthodox jew  thumb his nose at them. If anything, some should be happy that they are taking a step in the right direction.

[muman613]

<snip>

As far as kosher food..of course on shabbat it should be idealy kosher...but kosher food in a non-shomer home, in my opinion defeats the whole point of shabbat versus non glatt kosher food in a home that attempts to create a shomer atmosphere (and this is with Jews who are not yeshiva trained or have a poor understanding of kashrut, but have good intentions for having a shabbat atmosphere).  So yes, kosher food is the way to go if one is going to do a shomer type dinner..but if we are talking about a jew who has good intentions but doesn't know any better, his attempt to make it a shomer type atmosphere even if the food isn't pefectly kosher to the orthodox standard shouldn't be frowned upon and have an orthodox jew  thumb his nose at them. If anything, some should be happy that they are taking a step in the right direction.

Very good point Dr. Dan... I believe that any step toward more Orthodox observance is a great step. There is no reason to be derisive and look down on others who are on a lower level than yourself. I encourage anyone who is trying to make Shabbat all it can be to do whatever they can. I am lucky that there are resources in my community which allow me to have Shabbatons with a kosher Orthodox minyan. They have reached out to me and I am very blessed to know these wonderful people. Our community can only benefit when we reach out and make Shabbat pleasant for every Jew.

muman613

[q_q_]

Those that reword my point as looking down on irreligious people never understood my original post, or subsequent ones.

Some may  be malicious, guilt-filled emotional wrecks.  Others just lack the background, and make assumptions they have against me based on other prejudices or personal problems. But I don't intend to play psychiatrist any further.  Particularly at this verges on personal issues for such people.

I did say that certain types will not get it, and those of that type keep going on. And not just that. They have the sickness of mind to continually accuse me of looking down on irreligious jews..  When they admit to never having understood my posts in the first place.  Essentially, I could say as some of them do, that this is "an attack", but I don't because I don't put that much weight on the jibberish of such people. It's one thing being ignorant, it's another thing being stupid. Many here are both. But continually rewording my posts is very bad. 

[Dr. Dan]

Those that reword my point as looking down on irreligious people never understood my original post, or subsequent ones.

Some may  be malicious, guilt-filled emotional wrecks.  Others just lack the background, and make assumptions they have against me based on other prejudices or personal problems. But I don't intend to play psychiatrist any further.  Particularly at this verges on personal issues for such people.

I did say that certain types will not get it, and those of that type keep going on. And not just that. They have the sickness of mind to continually accuse me of looking down on irreligious jews..  When they admit to never having understood my posts in the first place.  Essentially, I could say as some of them do, that this is "an attack", but I don't because I don't put that much weight on the jibberish of such people. It's one thing being ignorant, it's another thing being stupid. Many here are both. But continually rewording my posts is very bad. 

if you felt attacked by me, i apologize.  I'm not trying to reword what you're saying. Can you redefine your explanation so that you are not misunderstood?

[muman613]

Shalom,

And there was no attempt to attack anyone in my posting. I simply agree with Dan on his post.

muman613

[q_q_]

I said

Regearding the "attack" issue
"Essentially, I could say ...that this is 'an attack', but I don't"

Others make the accusation of being attacked, for less.

I'm not claiming anybody is being attacked, and that is half my point there. Nevertheless, one should take care not to continually reword somebody's explanation in your own words, when your own words are an outrageous allegation.  If you don't have the logic to break down the particular word or sentence that you don't understand(and none do here), then don't bother. I did say that some wouldn't be able to grasp it anyway, and I stated the category of whome.

Now, regarding requests for re-explanation.
I've already said that people here don't have the background for my post to resonate with them(or the imagination to simulate that background). 
The background I speak of is,
If the people i'm talking to had tried a shabbat - and I mean a strict shabbat, meaning no turning lights on and off. No TV, No Internet. No cooking. 
And not just that, but if those people had had the experience of trying shabbat in a variety of different environments.. A religiously left wing modern orthodox one, a black hat one, e.t.c.  And routinely. And not just for a day. But sleeping over at the place, really seeing it from start to finish. And they are familiar with what makes for a good shabbat environment, and how the environment can go wrong, all whilst keeping shabbat strictly.  Then, with intelligence on top of that(which some may have sometimes), they would understand better.

[AsheDina]

  I think halloween is GROTESQUE. If kids celebrate this day, they should know that it is really called "hallows eve" a demonic day for pagans. Sorry- but I really DONT like halloween, people act like INSANE idiots, they dress scary as anything, and thats the day these satanic people worship evil- what a STUPID thing.  WHY dont they call it KIDS DAY?  I stopped halloween after I saw that movie Carrie, that was a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time ago. My mom didnt like halloween and really didnt let us go out for more than an hour, then she was happy, cuz I am the oldest, and I didnt want to go, so nobody went anymore.  

[Dr. Dan]

I said

Regearding the "attack" issue
"Essentially, I could say ...that this is 'an attack', but I don't"

Others make the accusation of being attacked, for less.

I'm not claiming anybody is being attacked, and that is half my point there. Nevertheless, one should take care not to continually reword somebody's explanation in your own words, when your own words are an outrageous allegation.  If you don't have the logic to break down the particular word or sentence that you don't understand(and none do here), then don't bother. I did say that some wouldn't be able to grasp it anyway, and I stated the category of whome.

Now, regarding requests for re-explanation.
I've already said that people here don't have the background for my post to resonate with them(or the imagination to simulate that background). 
The background I speak of is,
If the people i'm talking to had tried a shabbat - and I mean a strict shabbat, meaning no turning lights on and off. No TV, No Internet. No cooking. 
And not just that, but if those people had had the experience of trying shabbat in a variety of different environments.. A religiously left wing modern orthodox one, a black hat one, e.t.c.  And routinely. And not just for a day. But sleeping over at the place, really seeing it from start to finish. And they are familiar with what makes for a good shabbat environment, and how the environment can go wrong, all whilst keeping shabbat strictly.  Then, with intelligence on top of that(which some may have sometimes), they would understand better.

I hear you, QQ. Can you describe for us your expieriences with black hat Jews and "Left wing" "Modern" Orthodox Jew?

[takebackourtemple]

   I stopped halloween after I saw that movie Carrie, that was a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time ago. My mom didnt like halloween and really didnt let us go out for more than an hour, then she was happy, cuz I am the oldest, and I didnt want to go, so nobody went anymore.   

   Carrie was a good movie(and book), but how did it influence you to stop celebrating Halloween. The only link I can see is that it was a so called scary movie.

[q_q_]

I said

Regearding the "attack" issue
"Essentially, I could say ...that this is 'an attack', but I don't"

Others make the accusation of being attacked, for less.

I'm not claiming anybody is being attacked, and that is half my point there. Nevertheless, one should take care not to continually reword somebody's explanation in your own words, when your own words are an outrageous allegation.  If you don't have the logic to break down the particular word or sentence that you don't understand(and none do here), then don't bother. I did say that some wouldn't be able to grasp it anyway, and I stated the category of whome.

Now, regarding requests for re-explanation.
I've already said that people here don't have the background for my post to resonate with them(or the imagination to simulate that background). 
The background I speak of is,
If the people i'm talking to had tried a shabbat - and I mean a strict shabbat, meaning no turning lights on and off. No TV, No Internet. No cooking. 
And not just that, but if those people had had the experience of trying shabbat in a variety of different environments.. A religiously left wing modern orthodox one, a black hat one, e.t.c.  And routinely. And not just for a day. But sleeping over at the place, really seeing it from start to finish. And they are familiar with what makes for a good shabbat environment, and how the environment can go wrong, all whilst keeping shabbat strictly.  Then, with intelligence on top of that(which some may have sometimes), they would understand better.

I hear you, QQ. Can you describe for us your expieriences with black hat Jews and "Left wing" "Modern" Orthodox Jew?

You would have to experience it in the way that your mind assimilates things.

That is extremely differently to mine.

I could try to get you to think through the experience though., that would be easier, but still very difficult, and alot of work for a discussion forum, not really feasible.
And it would have to be in private, because it would work by first principles.. But then nobody else would benefit. And your benefit would be limited too, because like most people you would be better in conversation than a discussion forum.

Far easier if you just had the experiences yourself, by nook or crook. Even then you may still not understand me. We are not on the same wavelength.

[Rubystars]

Carrie is about an extremely cruel and vicious treatment of a young woman who is in an abusive home and then gets abused at school too. It's really awful, one of the most horrible stories ever. King has to have a sick mind to come up with that story.

[Dr. Dan]

Carrie is about an extremely cruel and vicious treatment of a young woman who is in an abusive home and then gets abused at school too. It's really awful, one of the most horrible stories ever. King has to have a sick mind to come up with that story.

actually enjoyed that movie...but yeh..very violent in the end...makes me think of those sick kids who shoot up their schools to get back at people.

[nessuno]

Stephen King, and his work, has always struck me as a bit crazy.
I did like The Shining though.

[muman613]

Stephen King, and his work, has always struck me as a bit crazy.
I did like The Shining though.

Heeeres Johny!


muman613

[nessuno]

Stephen King, and his work, has always struck me as a bit crazy.
I did like The Shining though.

Heeeres Johny!


muman613

[Rubystars]

I liked the short movie the Langoliers, and also I liked Cycle of the Werewolf. I liked the book more than the movie though because the movie was kind of lame.

[AsheDina]

CARRIE WAS TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! I associated Carrie to graveyards, and that seems to be a day when people celebrate dead people- that to me is SICKO- calling up spirits from the dead, SICK MAN.  When that hand came out of that grave, that scared me, it was right b4 halloween, so NO MORE. EVER! I would rather ear MOLASSES!