Author Topic: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel  (Read 5238 times)

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Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« on: November 02, 2008, 01:45:01 PM »
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128171

Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel

(IsraelNN.com) The current situation in Israel could have all the necessary ingredients for the appointment of a king, according to biblical scholar and historian David Solomon.

Speaking today on Israel National Radio, Solomon said that problems and divisions within Israel today and the threats it faces from outside to its security could be interpreted as the conditions that precede the appointment of a king.

"We need a unified leadership, we've got anti-Semitic regimes on our doorstep that want to wipe us out, we have fractures within the population," said Solomon.

Drawing a parallel between the current "disastrous absence of genuine political and spiritual and religious leadership" in Israel today and the period leading up to the anointing of Israel's first king, Saul, he said that many people might view a theocratic monarchy as an answer to Israel's troubles today as it was then.

Discussing the period of the early chapters of the book of Samuel, dated historically at around 1100 BCE, Solomon said that the situation at that time saw a crisis of political and religious leadership based upon corruption, exploitation and the abuse of power. It was as a result of this that the people of Israel turned to the prophet Samuel seeking a different model of leadership, asking instead for a king.

But Solomon cautioned against people being too hasty about appointing a king in Israel today. "Every generation that is thinking of adopting a new model of leadership needs to be extremely careful," he said. "Kings can be good but kings can also be very bad."

According to Solomon, Jewish History shows that the decision to appoint a king is fraught with problems. While Israel can boast figures like King David and King Hezekiah, it has many more examples of bad kings.

"If we had the power to set up a king now, we would have to be extremely careful," he said.

Solomon said that it is not simply that one good king could easily be followed by a bad king, but that there is also the problem of how Israel would find the right person to provide the necessary qualities of leadership. "Let's say that we have all the ingredients for a king: how would we go about selecting that king?" he asked.

He said the cautionary lesson from the book of Samuel is that people tend to get the king they deserve.

Chaim said this in an Ask JTF about a month ago and once again JTF was right from the start. Listen to this in full!!
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 07:28:31 PM »
To Hashem is the Earth and everything contained within,

Does anyone remember me mentioning Noam Federman for this task?  Imagine how scared our enemies would be when Noam is declared to be b'hes'kats hamoshiach by the rabon'im.  Everyone knows exactly how he feels on the issue of Eretz Israel and eventually, the world would have to accept he is moshiach.  Once that would be established and he put the beis hamigdash on its stop, world peace would soon follow...

Also, I was comforted on Shabbos thinking about the the story of Rabbi Akiva laughing as he sees foxes leaving the holy of holies after the Temple is destroyed while his colleges are weeping.  When asked why he was so happy if it is known that only the Kohen Gadol can enter that stop and only once a year and now foxes are going there, he repsonds (after asking why they are weeping) that now that he sees the prophecies of destruction coming true right before his eyes, he knows he will merit to one day see the prophecies of redemption come to fruition.

I concluded that now that they actually torn down Noam's house, and it was in the eyes of the world (on youtube), we will now all merit to see the building of his, that is Moshiach's house, the Third eternal Temple - may it stand speedily, in our days.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 07:19:19 AM »
people respect the rambam alot, and he says in hilchot melachim that a King needs a sanhedrin and prophet. Apparently other authorities commentating differ with him on that and ask what his basis is.

ronen- it's worth pointing out that a king is not necessarily "king moshiach".. the thread starter didn't mention moshiach.





Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 09:05:23 AM »
To Hashem is the Earth, in its entirety,

That's a good point.  However, as Jews, we have already learned out lesson when it comes to taking a king, "like the go'im have."  Shmuel HaNavi was shocked when the Jews asked him fo a king not understanding what was wrong with him.  From this request came Shaul who ultimately failed to listen Shmuel and Agog would later (because of this shortcoming) beget Haman.

It was only when Shmuel was so upset with Shaul that Hashem tells him not to be sad and that he has already replaced him with the son of Yishi.

It is my understanding that Rabbi Adin Even Israel Stienshaltz has created a sanhendrein in Israel.  He is, in fact, its Nasi.  Although I heard he said he was only accepting the postion until someone more worth came along.  True humilty from such a tzadik!

As far as a prophet - well in this day and age, it is hard to say there are prophets missing.  There are so many Jews with "mental issues" who hear a voice outside of their own intellect.  This is what prophecy is.  However, if they are in America and are not listening to Rabbi Lazer Brody, shilta, they are forced on harmful medicines that are designed to silence the intellect.  Rabbi Brody says they ruin a person's emuna.

I don't know - personally I feel that when the Rebbe said in 1991 that "nevua" was back, so to speak (although he was referring to his father-in-law) I think he was predicting it would come back on a large scale.

In the days of prophets, there usually isn't only one.  Also, the prophets usually have schools of students who learn from them how to receive and interpret prophecy.

The Ramak has a lot of writing on this and makes it sound that it is not so difficult to merit prophecy if a person applies himself.

As far as having a king that is not Moshiach, you make a good point.  However, my opinion stems from the Rebbe's words back in 1990-1992 that the time was right.  Although as a generation we may have missed an amazing eitz ratzon, the way I see the time-space continuum, if the world was ready then, how much more so now.

Either way, the only to tell according to halacha is if Noam, when he comes to power, starts constucting G-ds edifice in Jersualem.  If he does and is successful, we know he is moshiach.

The way he speaks, rather lives, in Israel I am sure he will have no problem removing that disgraceful golden atorcity and replacing it with Hashem's third, eternal Temple.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 03:58:32 PM »
people respect the rambam alot, and he says in hilchot melachim that a King needs a sanhedrin and prophet. Apparently other authorities commentating differ with him on that and ask what his basis is.



qq:  He says specifically that there must be a sanhedrin and a prophet as a prerequisite to establishing a king, or is that just how some interpret him?

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 04:07:34 PM »
If people who are hearing voices due to schizophrenia don't receive medication then they won't be able to live their lives and could become violent.

Schizophrenia is a diagnosis that comes not just because someone has an overactive imagination but it has to meet certain clinical symptoms. So if someone's on medication for hearing voices they probably need it.

Offline muman613

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 04:10:15 PM »
To Hashem is the Earth, in its entirety,

That's a good point.  However, as Jews, we have already learned out lesson when it comes to taking a king, "like the go'im have."  Shmuel HaNavi was shocked when the Jews asked him fo a king not understanding what was wrong with him.  From this request came Shaul who ultimately failed to listen Shmuel and Agog would later (because of this shortcoming) beget Haman.

It was only when Shmuel was so upset with Shaul that Hashem tells him not to be sad and that he has already replaced him with the son of Yishi.

It is my understanding that Rabbi Adin Even Israel Stienshaltz has created a sanhendrein in Israel.  He is, in fact, its Nasi.  Although I heard he said he was only accepting the postion until someone more worth came along.  True humilty from such a tzadik!

As far as a prophet - well in this day and age, it is hard to say there are prophets missing.  There are so many Jews with "mental issues" who hear a voice outside of their own intellect.  This is what prophecy is.  However, if they are in America and are not listening to Rabbi Lazer Brody, shilta, they are forced on harmful medicines that are designed to silence the intellect.  Rabbi Brody says they ruin a person's emuna.

I don't know - personally I feel that when the Rebbe said in 1991 that "nevua" was back, so to speak (although he was referring to his father-in-law) I think he was predicting it would come back on a large scale.

In the days of prophets, there usually isn't only one.  Also, the prophets usually have schools of students who learn from them how to receive and interpret prophecy.

The Ramak has a lot of writing on this and makes it sound that it is not so difficult to merit prophecy if a person applies himself.

As far as having a king that is not Moshiach, you make a good point.  However, my opinion stems from the Rebbe's words back in 1990-1992 that the time was right.  Although as a generation we may have missed an amazing eitz ratzon, the way I see the time-space continuum, if the world was ready then, how much more so now.

Either way, the only to tell according to halacha is if Noam, when he comes to power, starts constucting G-ds edifice in Jersualem.  If he does and is successful, we know he is moshiach.

The way he speaks, rather lives, in Israel I am sure he will have no problem removing that disgraceful golden atorcity and replacing it with Hashem's third, eternal Temple.

Ronen,

You know that Torah is specific about what we do with prophets whose prophecies do not come to pass. I sure hope that people who prophesy are proven true...

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 04:13:40 PM »
people respect the rambam alot, and he says in hilchot melachim that a King needs a sanhedrin and prophet. Apparently other authorities commentating differ with him on that and ask what his basis is.



qq:  He says specifically that there must be a sanhedrin and a prophet as a prerequisite to establishing a king, or is that just how some interpret him?

those that say otherwise are disagreeing with the RAMBAM,  or questioning him. Not interpreting him.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 04:18:14 PM »
somebody makes a zany comment suggesting that mentally ill people hearing voices, are prophets, and people try to refute it or talk about giving them the death penalty!!!

unbelievable..

also, there is no point quoting the whole of that long post

there is actually some interesting logic behind his comment, but that's another matter

Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 05:53:49 PM »
If people who are hearing voices due to schizophrenia don't receive medication then they won't be able to live their lives and could become violent.

Schizophrenia is a diagnosis that comes not just because someone has an overactive imagination but it has to meet certain clinical symptoms. So if someone's on medication for hearing voices they probably need it.
  Blessed is the Creator of Heaven and Earth - my friend, you are not disagreeing with me, rather with Rabbi Lazer Brody Shlita, who has experience in this field.

Furhtermore, just stop and think for a second if Freud would have preceeded Moshe Rabanu.

"So Moshe, what was your day like today?"
"Well, this bush talked to me..."
"Now Moshe, you know bushes can't speak, right?"
"Well, I don't know it was making some sense and I heard the voice clearly.  It even turned my staff into a snake and my hand became afflicated and then fully healed!"
"Now Moshe, those were just hallucinations, my patient.  Tell, me, though, what did the bush say?"
"Well, it said the slavery and mistreatment of the Jews is unbearable to G-d Almighty.  That G-d Almighty wants me to go and tell pharoh, king of Egypt, to release his Jewish slaves."
"Now Moshe, you're not crazy, right?  I mean you're not really thinking about going to the most powerful man in the world and demanding that he release an army of free labor, are you?"

Well, you get me point.  And the same holds true of every other prophet.  See, the Jews are not like regular people.  They are given gifts from G-d.  And one of these gifts is prophecy.  Sadly, many Jews think a forgien voice in their psyche is a curse, but it could actually be Hashem trying to talk to that person.  Because of the fear, they run to the doctor instead of trying to deal with the message.

May G-d Almighty bless us to accept everything that comes our way.

Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 05:57:47 PM »
Quote: 

Ronen,

You know that Torah is specific about what we do with prophets whose prophecies do not come to pass. I sure hope that people who prophesy are proven true...

muman613

To Hashem belongs the Heavens and earth, and everything found within,

Um, Muman613 - what we do to navi'ia sheker is done only when we have a fully functioning court of Jewish law.  I would gladly welcome this period in our history.  Also, it's important not to live in the past.

We used to have wars between prophets in Judaism.  However, after the galus got so tough, we slowly learned that our real enemies are the sona Israel, not the Jews themselves.  In my estimation, Jewish prophets will not wage war against each other in the future.

Offline muman613

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 06:59:12 PM »
Quote: 

Ronen,

You know that Torah is specific about what we do with prophets whose prophecies do not come to pass. I sure hope that people who prophesy are proven true...

muman613

To Hashem belongs the Heavens and earth, and everything found within,

Um, Muman613 - what we do to navi'ia sheker is done only when we have a fully functioning court of Jewish law.  I would gladly welcome this period in our history.  Also, it's important not to live in the past.

We used to have wars between prophets in Judaism.  However, after the galus got so tough, we slowly learned that our real enemies are the sona Israel, not the Jews themselves.  In my estimation, Jewish prophets will not wage war against each other in the future.

Shalom Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal,

I am listening to your ideas and trying to understand. My point is that we have seen many Navi'ia Sheker in the past. Many have been led astray by these false prophets. This is why I point out that false prophets, those who speak in Hashems name but are proven false, should be dealt with according to the law. I am prepared to accept prophecy when we know that prophecy has been returned to the Jewish people.

You mentioned that the Lubavitch Rebbe said that Navua had been returned to the Jewish people. Do you have the name of the sefer which contains this quote? If this is true it is a wonderful thing. I also am a big fan of Rabbi Lazer Brody but I have not read his writings concerning this topic. Could you provide a link which covers this?

Thank you,
muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
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Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 07:11:47 PM »
Prophecy ceased when the temple was destroyed.

Ruach HaKodesh is still possible though.

I can mumble something on this...
The lubavitcher rebbe did say something along the lines of him being a taste of the prophets and his father in law a taste of the judges. in sichos. I don't know off hand the exact quote or ref.  It does look like a purely lubavitch belief. 
However, I have heard from a really great lubavitch rabbi, (I asked him howcome the taste of prophets and judges are all the lubavitcher rebbe and his relatives). He said that this mystical idea of a taste of prophets, existed even before lubavitch , and even before chassidut. That we have eras.. So, of the 6000 years since Adam. The first 2000 are one era, So we are in the last era.   He also said that Rebbes operate on a level similar to ruach hakodesh, that allow them to see the complete unity of the torah. (it's the fact that they receive revelation that makes new things valid.  Similarly, other mystical works, don't claim to be interpretation, they often claim to be from an angel).  Obviously these aren't the most classical beliefs.


Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 07:17:00 PM »
Prophecy does exist since around the temples destruction (and earlier), but 2 types of people can have it. Small children and someone who is a Shotea (crazy person). So if someone comes and claims they have prophecy, and they are not a child, then you know what they are likly.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 07:23:44 PM »
Prophecy does exist since around the temples destruction (and earlier), but 2 types of people can have it. Small children and someone who is a Shotea (crazy person). So if someone comes and claims they have prophecy, and they are not a child, then you know what they are likly.

this may be in kabbalistic texts..

I don't see how that is consistent with classical jewish text though.

The RAMBAM in The guide says prophecy ceased..

source
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,16162.0.html
I mention there, The Guide 2:36
The Guide 2:36
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp123.htm
"
This is a real fact, and the cause is evident; the pre-requisites [of prophecy] have been lost. In the Messianic period--may it soon commence--prophecy will therefore again be in our midst, as has been promised by G-d.
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Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 07:27:04 PM »
people respect the rambam alot, and he says in hilchot melachim that a King needs a sanhedrin and prophet. Apparently other authorities commentating differ with him on that and ask what his basis is.



qq:  He says specifically that there must be a sanhedrin and a prophet as a prerequisite to establishing a king, or is that just how some interpret him?

they are disagreeing or questioning him.

But further to my point.  It is based on a comment from judea, on old shows but also on the forum

source
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,16162.0.html
judea said
"..it is also a fact that most of the perushim on the rambam say that you only need a sanhedrin to appoint a king.

And they also bring the Talmudh which says that you only need a sanhedrin, not a prophet.

They are actually unable to understand why the rambam says that you need a prophet."


Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 07:32:13 PM »
To Hashem is the entirety of creation,

Greetings, Muman613,

Here is a general link to Rabbi Brody's thoughts about natural healing.  He is an amazing writer and I love his stuff.  He quotes Reb Nacham more than anyone else, but I feel he is well grounded in Torah.

http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/health_and_fitness/

There is a collection of talks called "Dvar Malchus".  It is a collectin of talks given from about 1990-1992 by the Rebbe.  In the sicha from parshas Shoftim, 5751, the Rebbe says that nevua is back.  However, he says this in regard only to his holy father-in-law, who he feels is the leader of the generation.

My opinion is - since the Rebbe said this about 41 years after the hhistalkus of the Previous Rebbe, he was trying to tell us a change of status within the Jewish people themselves.  The Ramak writes a lot about attaining prophecy and from his writing its prtty clear it can be done with proper yirat Hashem.

This is a link to the translated talk

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/sichos-in-english/49/20.htm

I will cut and paste the relevant part, but of course it's important not to take things out of context and the best way to learn these deep concepts is in their original language with a learned rabbi who was actually was there at the time of the talk or has the background and yirat shami'im to explain it to you.

"An illustration of the difference between the two functions mentioned above can be found in the contrast between the words of the Torah, and the words of prophecy, (both of which are mentioned in the Torah portion Shoftim).
Torah transcends the world, for it is the wisdom and will of G-d. Thus in the same way that one cannot grasp the being of G-d in any way, the real essence of the Torah is above our comprehension.[204] Therefore the manner in which the Torah is conveyed to this world is mainly through commandments and rulings from above.

In contrast, prophecy -- even though it is the word of G-d, "the spirit of G-d spoke to me" -- is the revelation of G-dliness to man. "He revealed His secrets to His servants, the prophets", according to their limits[205] that it should be absorbed in the knowledge and mind of the prophet. A prophet becomes as one with the prophecy communicated to him and the vision of prophecy becomes clothed in his minds and understanding and also in his thoughts and speech, as it is written "The spirit of G-d spoke in me, and His word is on my tongue."

Moreover, prophecy is intended to be revealed through speech. The very Hebrew term for prophecy, nevuah implies that it is a subject proclaimed and announced to the people as in the term niv s'fosayim, ("the expression of the lips"). In contrast, Torah which can remain in one's thoughts. Also the import of prophecy has connection with the events of the world. To quote the Rambam, "A prophet is only there to inform us of what is going to happen in the future in the world."[206]

There is a commandment to obey "your judges" at all times, as it is written in our Torah portion "And you shall come... to the judge who will be in those days." Similarly, there is a commandment to obey the prophets, as it is written separately in the Torah portion (18:15) "G-d will set up for you a prophet from your midst, from your brothers, like me, and you shall hearken to him."

In this context, the Rambam explains "one of the fundamentals of the religion is to know that G-d sends His prophecies through people." Since the Rambam prefaces the commandment to heed a prophet with the concept that prophecy is one of "the fundamentals of the religion," we can understand that this affects Jews in all generations. Our Sages tell us "that from the time the later prophets, Chaggai, Zecharia and Malachi died, the Holy Spirit departed from Israel." Nevertheless, the word "departed" does not mean that it was abolished completely. The spirit of prophecy did not cease, but rather ascended to a higher plane. Indeed, even after the era of the later prophets, the spirit of prophecy permeated very many people. (This can also be understood from the fact that, in the Mishneh Torah, the Rambam does not mention the cessation of prophecy, nor that the spirit of prophecy can flourish only in a specific time.)

Indeed, in his Iggeres Taimon, the Rambam writes that "as a preparatory step for Mashiach's coming... prophecy will return to Israel." This can be understood in connection with the explanations above. To prepare us to be able to receive the revelations of the Era of the Redemption, we must experience through prophecy, a foretaste of the "advice" that will be communicated in that era.

It is therefore important for later generations to know that it is "one of the fundaments of [our] faith to know that G-d sends His prophecies through people." Always, in all generations, the revelation of prophecy is possible. Moreover, this will include even a level of prophecy which is akin to the prophecy of Moshe as implied by the verse, "I will set up for them from their brothers like you." Moshe's level is the zenith of prophecy, as the Rambam explains at length. Nevertheless, it is not exclusive to him, but reflected to others as well.

This enables us to comprehend why the Rambam deals with the prophecy of Moshe at such length, explaining that it reflects a higher level of prophecy than experienced by all other prophets. On the surface, this is merely a historical fact. Of what purpose is there in discussing it in a book of law for the Jewish people of later generations. And if this only refers to the time after Mashiach has come, when Moshe will arise, the people will see Moshe's uniqueness themselves. Of what purpose is there to mention this ruling now?

The explanation is that in all generations, even before the Resurrection of the Dead, it is necessary to know that Torah law prescribes that G-d sends His prophecies through men, that the verse, "I will set up a prophet... like you (Moshe)" applies in every generation. Every prophet is a continuation of the prophecy of Moshe and his Torah (except that in regard to revelation, there are different levels as the Rambam explains). In our generation, these concepts were personified by the leader of the generation, the Previous Rebbe.

We can now understand the uniqueness of the time in which we are living, an age when all the service required of us has been completed, to borrow an expression of the Previous Rebbe, "the buttons have been polished," and we are in the final seconds before the Ultimate Redemption.

From the time when the Torah commanded "You shall appoint judges and officers in all your gates," the fact that the Redemption did not come then served as a proof that the Jews had not completed the service required of them. Traces of our sins remained, and hence "because of our sins, we were exiled from our land." Hence, in addition to judges, we still required "officers" to enforce obedience of the decisions the judges rendered.

Nevertheless, after the great amount of service throughout the generations, we are obviously very much nearer to the Redemption. Surely this has been enhanced by the revelation of P'nimiyus HaTorah, beginning from the AriZal's declaration that "it is a mitzvah to reveal this wisdom," and particularly through the service of the Rebbeim in spreading forth the wellsprings of Chassidus. These leaders are the individuals through whom "prophecy will return to Israel." They are the prophets of our generation, "like me (Moshe)," i.e., they are "the spark of Moshe that exists in every generation."

They are "your judges." This reflects to their function as nesi'im. This term related to the word hisnasus, "uplifted," reflects how they are elevated above the people.[207] In this capacity, they serve as the teachers of the Torah to the people. Similarly, they serve as "your advisors," giving counsel in connection with our Torah service, and also giving advice in worldly matters, which is the function of the prophets.

This is particularly expressed through the revelation of the teachings of Chassidus through the Chabad approach which allows one to comprehend Torah's mystic secrets within the conceptual framework of ordinary human intellect. This serves as a foretaste of the revelation of the inner meanings of Torah in the Era of the Redemption which will in turn prepare our people for that era.

All this has been greatly increased in our generation -- when "the spreading of your wellsprings outward" has been completed, reaching a level that can be comprehended by a person who is extremely remote and having been extended to all corners of the earth. This includes the translation of the teaching of Chassidus into many languages (e.g., Russian) at the request of the Previous Rebbe and the printing of the Tanya -- the written law of Chassidus -- in Braille for those who unfortunately cannot see.

In this context, the knowledge that all the service required of us has been completed provides us with a heightened understanding of the lesson we must take from Parshas Shoftim. Each person has to recognize himself, and publicize among his widest circle of influence, that we need to accept upon ourselves the rulings and advice of "the judges" and "the advisers" of our generation. In general, this refers to all Rabbis, for "Our Rabbis are our kings," and in particular, this refers to the leader of our generation -- the judge, adviser and prophet of our generation.

When a person has the merits and individual perfection required of a prophet, and he performs signs and wonders -- as we saw and see continually in the fulfillment of the blessings of the leader of our generation, the Previous Rebbe -- "we do not believe in him only because of the sign [he performed]..., but because of the commandment which Moshe gave in the Torah."

Furthermore, "A prophet about whom another prophet testifies that he is a prophet (as is the case with the Previous Rebbe, and is continued in the next generation through his disciples), he is accepted as a prophet and requires no investigation." He has to be obeyed immediately "even before he performs a sign." "It is forbidden to disparage or criticize his prophecy saying that it is perhaps not true." There is a specific negative commandment forbidding us to test a prophet more than necessary. After it has become known that he is a prophet, the people should believe in him, and they should not disparage or criticize him. Their belief should not be in the prophet as an individual, but as a messenger charged with communicating the words of G-d.

This concept has to be publicized to everyone in this generation. It must be made known that we have merited that G-d has chosen and appointed a person who of himself is far greater than the people of his generation, to serve as a judge, adviser, and prophet to the generation. He will grant rulings and advice in connection with the service of the Jews and indeed, of all the people of this generation, in all matters of the Torah and its mitzvos, and in their general day to day behavior, allowing them to "know Him in all your ways," so that "all your actions should be for the sake of Heaven." Surely, this includes the fundamental prophecy "To Redemption immediately," for "Behold Mashiach is coming."

This, the acceptance and fulfillment of the rulings of the "judges" and the "advisers" of our generation begins the process of the fulfillment of the prayer "Return our judges as at first, and our advisers as at the beginning" which will be realized in a full sense with the true and complete Redemption.

On this basis, we can answer the questions being asked lately: Why is there is so much talk about the Redemption coming immediately? How will the family react, and what will the world say? To which the answer is that if the idea of Redemption was something novel, there might be cause for the question. This is not the case; everything connected with the Redemption began a long time ago and has long been accepted in this world. Hence, there should be no wonderment and surprise when the Redemption does actually come.

On a practical level, the injunction of "You shall appoint judges at all your gates," must be applied on several different levels. Firstly, "the gates" can be interpreted as referring to the seven gates of man: the two eyes, two ears, two nostrils and mouth. They should act according to the dictates of the Torah. On this level, the "judges" refer to the intellectual attributes of the G-dly soul and the "advisers," the emotional attributes. Thus every element of the life of a Jew has to be permeated and led by the G-dly power of his soul.

This concept should be extended and every man and woman should serve as a "judge" and an "adviser" in their household and family, insuring that it run according to the teachings and advice of the Torah. And to extend the concept even further, the whole world should follow the directives of the "judge" and the "adviser" of the generation, the "prophet I will set up for them, like you (Moshe)," the leader of the generation."

We are now at the end of the year, in the month of Elul, which is the month of reckoning for the past year and the month of preparation for the next year; and in this month itself, the first seven days have passed, from Sunday until Shabbos, which include all the days of the year passed and to come.

It is therefore an even more fitting time to make a true reckoning, and to undertake appropriate preparations for the next year in connection with the service described above. And this will bring each member of the Jewish people and the entire Jewish people as a whole, a kesivah vachasimah tovah, an inscription and the sealing of that inscription for a good and sweet year materially and spiritually.[208] Included in this will be the fulfillment of the prophecy, "And I will return your judges as in former times, and your advisers as at the beginning," with the return of our people to Eretz Yisrael and to the Beis HaMikdash. May this take place in the immediate future."

Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 07:36:04 PM »
Prophecy does exist since around the temples destruction (and earlier), but 2 types of people can have it. Small children and someone who is a Shotea (crazy person). So if someone comes and claims they have prophecy, and they are not a child, then you know what they are likly.

Blessed is G-d, Creator of Heaven and Earth,

How would you then explain Rabbi Kahane's words?
The Previous Rebbe's words?

Look into the Ramak - you'll see something there.  Add this to the fact that things haven't been darker for our people and please remember that Hashem will never forget his first born.

It is my opinion that Hashem had to return prophecy to our people because our enemies, may they be wiped out completely, had gotten too strong.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2008, 07:58:55 PM »

qq:  He says specifically that there must be a sanhedrin and a prophet as a prerequisite to establishing a king, or is that just how some interpret him?

they are disagreeing or questioning him.

But further to my point.  It is based on a comment from judea, on old shows but also on the forum

source
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,16162.0.html
judea said
"..it is also a fact that most of the perushim on the rambam say that you only need a sanhedrin to appoint a king.

And they also bring the Talmudh which says that you only need a sanhedrin, not a prophet.

They are actually unable to understand why the rambam says that you need a prophet."



Thanks.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2008, 11:24:46 PM »


"How would you then explain Rabbi Kahane's words?

  Hacham, not a Prophet. He even said- "Ani Lo Navi, velo Ben Navi" - I am not a prophet, nor a son of a prophet.

 "The Previous Rebbe's words?"

 I dont know his words.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline YESHA

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 06:03:24 AM »
He's on with Tovia every week now - he makes a lot of sense, much like JTF!

Offline Ronen Levi Yitzchak Segal

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 10:56:17 AM »


"How would you then explain Rabbi Kahane's words?

  Hacham, not a Prophet. He even said- "Ani Lo Navi, velo Ben Navi" - I am not a prophet, nor a son of a prophet.

 "The Previous Rebbe's words?"

 I dont know his words.

Baruch Hashem

With all do respect, Reb Tzvi - surely you know who Reb Meir was quoting?  Amos, HaNavi.  It is he who said I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet.  After he passed away, the Jews realized something - Hashem was talking through Amos HaNavi.

The Previous Rebbe - when he arrived on these shores (America) he predicted that "America will be no different,".  Just as we had beards, mikveh, and kosher food in Russia, so too, here in America.  Even those close to him told him he was too old to start such a rally cry.  He only saw ten years here (unless you count his time at the ohel) but his son-in-law took over and sure enough, there are many Jews today, here in America, that still have beards, go to mikveh, and eat strickly kosher (pas and cholov Israel) food.

His famed son-in-law also said no Jew would be hurt when the Scuds decended on the Holy Land.  I think a pig farmer may have been affected, but surprisingly, he was right.  At one point, CNN had reported that a Jew was killed from a Scud.  They asked the Rebbe if wanted to change his words.  He said, "Just wait.".  Minutes later, CNN corrected their report.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 11:16:40 AM »
His famed son-in-law also said no Jew would be hurt when the Scuds decended on the Holy Land.  I think a pig farmer may have been affected, but surprisingly, he was right.  At one point, CNN had reported that a Jew was killed from a Scud.  They asked the Rebbe if wanted to change his words.  He said, "Just wait.".  Minutes later, CNN corrected their report.

that's amazing.. I wish that was on youtube!

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 12:00:55 PM »
Ronen-  a Prophet usually anounces that he/she is a prophet. Our sages also say that in some respects a Hacham/ Rav is greater then a prophet (in some respects). Rav Kahane was a Hacham. He simply looked into the Torah and saw the answers, and right path to follow, etc. Also looking into the words of the Hachamim and putting the whole picture together. We can look into the Torah and get the answers we need in life (and im not only talking about the Goral- if you know what I mean) Its about studying the book of life and seeing the answers, becuase everything is in the Torah.

  About what the Chabad Rebbe said- That still doesn't prove that one is a prophet. A prophet is much more then that. And I have news- he wasn't the only one to make predictions. Rav Ovadia Yosef said that Sharon will fall and not get up, like a month before he really did drop into a coma (It was even at the papers, and they were kindo'v mocking him, saying what is he talking about). Rav Kaduri sais their will be a Tzunami in the east, and many other examples.
  The truth is that I think it can be an aspect of Ruach Hakodesh, which does exist. OR it could be random predictions and if it happens then AFTERWARDS people can and do say, see this and this happened, but if not then people forget about it. (Just like some always say that Moshiach is coming, time and time again). But whatever, Rav Amnon Yitzhak said their will be a big flood( water disaster) in NY within 2 years, lets see if it happens, but I doubt it.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline q_q_

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Re: Historian: Conditions Are Ripe for a King of Israel
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 12:04:31 PM »
it's a bit ridiculous to even need this said,

but rabbi kahane said he is not a prophet.

I think it's the national press club interview with the paint, where he was asked about his 40 year prediction - which was coming close to an end. (it came true by the way!).