Is the world 6000 years old?

[White Israelite]

I keep hearing this phrase my mainly atheists or people who bash religion claiming that the bible says the world is 6000 years old, but no where have I been able to actually find a verse or anything that references to the world being 6000 years old. God is outside of time correct? So couldn't a day perhaps be a million years to God? How is the time measured? Isn't this time currently measured via the Roman calender? Let me know.

[muman613]

I keep hearing this phrase my mainly atheists or people who bash religion claiming that the bible says the world is 6000 years old, but no where have I been able to actually find a verse or anything that references to the world being 6000 years old. G-d is outside of time correct? So couldn't a day perhaps be a million years to G-d? How is the time measured? Isn't this time currently measured via the Roman calender? Let me know.

According to the Jewish calendar which started when Adam and Eve were created we are in the year 5769. As such we {Orthodox Jews} believe that the world was created almost 6000 years ago. There are many explanations which resolve the difference in age between science and the Torah. I will leave it to others to point you in this direction...

muman613

PS: And yes, G-d is beyond time and space... He existed before creation, continues in the act of creation, and will exist when the world no longer exists.

[White Israelite]

I keep hearing this phrase my mainly atheists or people who bash religion claiming that the bible says the world is 6000 years old, but no where have I been able to actually find a verse or anything that references to the world being 6000 years old. G-d is outside of time correct? So couldn't a day perhaps be a million years to G-d? How is the time measured? Isn't this time currently measured via the Roman calender? Let me know.

According to the Jewish calendar which started when Adam and Eve were created we are in the year 5769. As such we {Orthodox Jews} believe that the world was created almost 6000 years ago. There are many explanations which resolve the difference in age between science and the Torah. I will leave it to others to point you in this direction...

muman613

PS: And yes, G-d is beyond time and space... He existed before creation, continues in the act of creation, and will exist when the world no longer exists.

Is the orthodox belief of 6000 years contrary to our current calender though?

[Dr. Dan]

honestly..what difference does it make?  6000 years or a billion years?  Dinosaurs or no dinosaurs...all I know is that this universe is perfect and this world was created so perfectly that it is impossible to deny Gd's existence.

[Masha]

Wouldn't it be exciting if they discovered that the world IS 6000 years old?  There are a lot of "young earth" websites that point to various problems with the scientific theory claiming that the earth in billions of years old.

[Zelhar]

The Torah is not a science book. Trying to "prove" from the Torah that the world is 5769 years old is ridiculous. Most Rabbis will argue that it impossible to quantify the actual time that the six days of creation tool place since for example the sun itself had only been created in day 4.

[q_q_]

I keep hearing this phrase my mainly atheists or people who bash religion claiming that the bible says the world is 6000 years old, but no where have I been able to actually find a verse or anything that references to the world being 6000 years old. G-d is outside of time correct? So couldn't a day perhaps be a million years to G-d? How is the time measured? Isn't this time currently measured via the Roman calender? Let me know.

The 6000 or so years are measured from when Adam was born

NOT, from creation.

So it says Nothing about the "days" prior to the creation of Adam.

a)We have a tradition that those 6 days contained eras. This was long before big bang theory, rabbis would refer to the tradition and say eras.
b)The sun was not apparent until during day 4, so there is no question that "days" 1-3  didn't have the concept of a daytime, nighttime. Even Morning and Evening, cannot have meant in relation to the sun, yet they are mentioned every day. "and it was evening, and it was morning, day x"

 
If we start reinterpreting the Torah in order to meet the science of today, then we are basing ourselves on science, not torah.  Then when science changes, Torah is cheapened.  And it's not honest to reinterpret torah in light of science so as to pretend it is saying things that it clearly isn't.

A person that interprets things SO metaphorically, and without any basis in tradition, really doesn't believe it at all and is not being honest. Like a reform minister I heard that , when asked what he thought about the truth of some nutter's religious claim, he said it is poetic, and open to interpretation, and not testable and you can't pass judgement.  If every time you think science has proven something wrong, then you reinterpret the religious text more and more wildly to make it fit, then you are not reading it honestly. and you are in denial. and don't really respect the text.

[~Hanna~]

I keep hearing this phrase my mainly atheists or people who bash religion claiming that the bible says the world is 6000 years old, but no where have I been able to actually find a verse or anything that references to the world being 6000 years old. G-d is outside of time correct? So couldn't a day perhaps be a million years to G-d? How is the time measured? Isn't this time currently measured via the Roman calender? Let me know.

According to the Jewish calendar which started when Adam and Eve were created we are in the year 5769. As such we {Orthodox Jews} believe that the world was created almost 6000 years ago. There are many explanations which resolve the difference in age between science and the Torah. I will leave it to others to point you in this direction...

muman613

PS: And yes, G-d is beyond time and space... He existed before creation, continues in the act of creation, and will exist when the world no longer exists.

Pretty awesome!

He always was, always is and always will be.....

Muman, do the kids ever ask who created G-d?

[Rubystars]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

[Rubystars]

Wouldn't it be exciting if they discovered that the world IS 6000 years old?  There are a lot of "young earth" websites that point to various problems with the scientific theory claiming that the earth in billions of years old.

Young earth creationism sites are great when I need to laugh, but not good for science.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Maybe this would be a good question for the Torah section.    There is a big argument among Torah scholars over whether or not the earth is 6000 years old or it could be billions of years.   

[q_q_]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

That is really hitting on more of a serious problem..

Dating of what appear to be human remains, and civilizations, that are 10,000 years old.

Yet the bible says Adam was the first man. And he was less than 6000 years ago.

One possible answer is that the dating is wrong. The environment may have been very different pre-flood , and the tests they do use extrapolation, making assumptions that aren't always accurate.

Another one is that those people were not human.

I did notice in Gerald Shroeder(one of his 2 good books, either Gen and the big bang, ), a tradition of there being creatures before Adam. Not considered man.

Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr argued that the findings of civilizations are not evidence of human life. Neither are cave paintings. For example, maybe the creature was a very good artist, but he just saw something and drew it, and it was not a human creature.
It would take linguistic evidence for us to judge. And there is no linguistic evidence > 6000 years old.

[q_q_]

Maybe this would be a good question for the Torah section.    There is a big argument among Torah scholars over whether or not the earth is 6000 years old or it could be billions of years.   

the torah section is a bit dead.. in terms of posts and discussion.

alot of the 6000 vs billions issue is of interest to christians too, it's largely a fundamental biblical question , and the general discussion section is more visible. e.g. clicking on Show Unread Posts shows the thread when there is new activity. Threads in other sections can go less noticed. There isn't a really good reason to put it in the torah section. The discussion isn't of such a Torah depth. This is just a fundamental biblical question.

[Rubystars]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

Dating of what appear to be human remains, and civilizations, that are 10,000 years old.

Yet the bible says Adam was the first man. And he was less than 6000 years ago.

Is it possible that Adam simply represents mankind?

One possible answer is that the dating is wrong. The environment may have been very different pre-flood , and the tests they do use extrapolation, making assumptions that aren't always accurate.

Another one is that those people were not human.

There were a lot of non-human hominids, although if you saw some of them today some would probably think them human enough to make them President of the United States. It's hard to tell exactly when humans became "human" in the sense that we would think of being one of our own kind.

Some hominids apparently had fire before the rise of modern man, so they may very well have been human in a spiritual sense even if not belonging to exactly the same group as we do.

I did notice in Gerald Shroeder(one of his 2 good books, either Gen and the big bang, ), a tradition of there being creatures before Adam. Not considered man.

This was likely passed down through oral traditions among people because humans (the modern type) did live side by side with other hominids for parts of history.

Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr argued that the findings of civilizations are not evidence of human life. Neither are cave paintings. For example, maybe the creature was a very good artist, but he just saw something and drew it, and it was not a human creature.
It would take linguistic evidence for us to judge. And there is no linguistic evidence > 6000 years old.

He's probably never looked at cave paintings. They're quite detailed and precise. They probably served spiritual/religious purposes and were the earliest precursors to a written alphabet. The earliest alphabets were based on animal shapes.

I think humans have been around for at least a couple hundred thousand years, possibly close to 1 million.

I don't know how you mesh it with the Bible but that's what the record says.

[P J C]

My Catholic church teaches that the world is 6000 years old. No older.

[Daleksfearme]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

That is really hitting on more of a serious problem..

Dating of what appear to be human remains, and civilizations, that are 10,000 years old.

Yet the bible says Adam was the first man. And he was less than 6000 years ago.

One possible answer is that the dating is wrong. The environment may have been very different pre-flood , and the tests they do use extrapolation, making assumptions that aren't always accurate.

Another one is that those people were not human.

I did notice in Gerald Shroeder(one of his 2 good books, either Gen and the big bang, ), a tradition of there being creatures before Adam. Not considered man.

Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr argued that the findings of civilizations are not evidence of human life. Neither are cave paintings. For example, maybe the creature was a very good artist, but he just saw something and drew it, and it was not a human creature.
It would take linguistic evidence for us to judge. And there is no linguistic evidence > 6000 years old.

Science has a very clear picture of the environmental changes that have occurred over the 4.6 billion years of Earth history. The tests that are used today do not rely on extrapolation, but on known chemical and psychical processes.

Cave painting were, for the most part, created by Neanderthal Man, who was one of a number of Hominid species that has evolved in the past 7 million years. Interestingly, it is somewhat unusual for only one Hominid species to exist at one time as we see today. Mostly Hominids have shared the planet with each other.

There have been many massive floods in Earth history. The rainfall that formed the oceans lasted for millions of years, The flooding that occurred at the end of the snowball Earth event and the tsunami that was triggered by the asteroid impact 65 million years ago that killed all of the non avian dinosaurs also were Major events. There were also a few ices ages to deal with.

Very recent evidence indicates that one of the genes that is critical for language in modern humans has been inherited from Neanderthal man.

All of the above is based on well proven science fact,,,you would be truly amazed by the things that are still up for debate.

I do not think that any of this is in conflict with basic Jewish thought or traditions. I think that much of the problems when reading the Bible stem from the fact that it has been rewritten over the years. this has lead to some gaps and conflict in the writting

[Daleksfearme]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

Dating of what appear to be human remains, and civilizations, that are 10,000 years old.

Yet the bible says Adam was the first man. And he was less than 6000 years ago.

Is it possible that Adam simply represents mankind?

One possible answer is that the dating is wrong. The environment may have been very different pre-flood , and the tests they do use extrapolation, making assumptions that aren't always accurate.

Another one is that those people were not human.

There were a lot of non-human hominids, although if you saw some of them today some would probably think them human enough to make them President of the United States. It's hard to tell exactly when humans became "human" in the sense that we would think of being one of our own kind.

Some hominids apparently had fire before the rise of modern man, so they may very well have been human in a spiritual sense even if not belonging to exactly the same group as we do.

I did notice in Gerald Shroeder(one of his 2 good books, either Gen and the big bang, ), a tradition of there being creatures before Adam. Not considered man.

This was likely passed down through oral traditions among people because humans (the modern type) did live side by side with other hominids for parts of history.

Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr argued that the findings of civilizations are not evidence of human life. Neither are cave paintings. For example, maybe the creature was a very good artist, but he just saw something and drew it, and it was not a human creature.
It would take linguistic evidence for us to judge. And there is no linguistic evidence > 6000 years old.

He's probably never looked at cave paintings. They're quite detailed and precise. They probably served spiritual/religious purposes and were the earliest precursors to a written alphabet. The earliest alphabets were based on animal shapes.

I think humans have been around for at least a couple hundred thousand years, possibly close to 1 million.

I don't know how you mesh it with the Bible but that's what the record says.

Hi

Just to help out

The first primates evolved 47 million years ago

The first "hominids" evolved about 7 million years ago.

Modern Humans are between 100 and 25o thousand years old

These numbers are all based on fossil and genetic evidence, Interestingly The earliest known life...single celled... evolved very soon after earth formed ...3.7 million years ago.

[Rubystars]

I don't think the cave paintings in France were done by Neanderthals. They were done by early Europeans. Neanderthal artwork tends to be different than that produced by modern style humans. They were a very similar species to modern humans but not quite the same. They lived in Europe at the same time as modern humans did. They were sort of like our cousins.

[Daleksfearme]

I don't think the cave paintings in France were done by Neanderthals. They were done by early Europeans. Neanderthal artwork tends to be different than that produced by modern style humans. They were a very similar species to modern humans but not quite the same. They lived in Europe at the same time as modern humans did. They were sort of like our cousins.

That might be true...there are some style differeces

[Ambiorix]

The world is billions of years old. Human history is significantly younger than that.

Dating of what appear to be human remains, and civilizations, that are 10,000 years old.

Yet the bible says Adam was the first man. And he was less than 6000 years ago.

Is it possible that Adam simply represents mankind?

One possible answer is that the dating is wrong. The environment may have been very different pre-flood , and the tests they do use extrapolation, making assumptions that aren't always accurate.

Another one is that those people were not human.

There were a lot of non-human hominids, although if you saw some of them today some would probably think them human enough to make them President of the United States. It's hard to tell exactly when humans became "human" in the sense that we would think of being one of our own kind.

Some hominids apparently had fire before the rise of modern man, so they may very well have been human in a spiritual sense even if not belonging to exactly the same group as we do.

I did notice in Gerald Shroeder(one of his 2 good books, either Gen and the big bang, ), a tradition of there being creatures before Adam. Not considered man.

This was likely passed down through oral traditions among people because humans (the modern type) did live side by side with other hominids for parts of history.

Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb of Ohr argued that the findings of civilizations are not evidence of human life. Neither are cave paintings. For example, maybe the creature was a very good artist, but he just saw something and drew it, and it was not a human creature.
It would take linguistic evidence for us to judge. And there is no linguistic evidence > 6000 years old.

He's probably never looked at cave paintings. They're quite detailed and precise. They probably served spiritual/religious purposes and were the earliest precursors to a written alphabet. The earliest alphabets were based on animal shapes.

I think humans have been around for at least a couple hundred thousand years, possibly close to 1 million.

I don't know how you mesh it with the Bible but that's what the record says.

Hi

Just to help out

The first primates evolved 47 million years ago

The first "hominids" evolved about 7 million years ago.

Modern Humans are between 100 and 25o thousand years old

These numbers are all based on fossil and genetic evidence, Interestingly The earliest known life...single celled... evolved very soon after earth formed ...3.7 million years ago.

Didn't you mean 3.7 billion years ago?

[muman613]

This is all based on science which changes from week to week, from month to month... This is why it is difficult to believe what science is saying. In my lifetime I have seen the timeline change and theories have come and gone. I remember the ideas about Dinosaurs whether they are related to birds or reptiles... Each scientist can come up with his/her own theory and it doesn't even have to fit into the big picture.

The bottom line is that life is not a random occurrence. There is no way that such complexity can arise from absolute chaos without a creator. Arguing the length of time since the beginning of creation proves nothing. As we said earlier the length of a day can be argued about during the 1st 3 days of creation. Also it is possible that G-d created an OLD WORLD. Why is this any mystery considering according to the story of Beresheit Adam was created a full-grown man. Why couldnt Hashem create a full-grown world which appears older than it really is?

muman613

[q_q_]

The bible is clear that Adam, first man, was less than 6000 years ago.

that disagrees with a claim that modern humans are 10,000 years old


What evidence is there that these bodies and civilizations were human?

There is no linguistic evidence for us to analyse and really see the thoughts and feelings of these people.

An answer is that they are -not- considered human.

If you say they are then that does not mesh with the bible.

Another answer, is that the evidence was planted to fool us, but it's unsatisfying to many people, and when you think about "why" it's hard to see any other examples of G-d doing that, so there isn't much to strengthen that case..

This is a bigger issue than the animal fossils, because the animal fossils were created during the 6 days, which may not have been 24h, and don't count in the <6000.

The talmud does talk of other creatures that looked like man but were not man, that were around in Adam's time. It could be that it was referring to creatures like that.  I don't have the ref, but gerald shroeder mentions it in one of his books. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

6,000 years- NO.   Its 5769

[q_q_]

6,000 years- NO.   Its 5769

he obviously meant approximately 6000 years

The argument doesn't completely change when 5769 becomes 5770.

The argument is whether the earth is ~6000 years old.

If joe blogs says that the earth is billions of years old, that's also an approximation to the billion.

The classic argument is 15 billion or 6000, and it will still be the same argument next year. And the year after. One doesn't have to retitle the thread.

The thread starter was right and sensible in the title he gave the thread.

You, were not sensible in your response. (and obviously people can use google or a calendar and find the exact jewish year). 

You are also trying to sidetrack the discussion with a cheap psychological trick! That won't fool intelligent people though.

[Dr. Dan]

Wouldn't it be exciting if they discovered that the world IS 6000 years old?  There are a lot of "young earth" websites that point to various problems with the scientific theory claiming that the earth in billions of years old.

it's impossible...however...i wasn't alive 6000 years ago to say otherwise...but the proof is more on the side of a billion years and not 6000 years...nevertheless, it doesn't mean Gd doesn't exist..He sure does