Author Topic: Butane lighters for Shabbat?  (Read 3355 times)

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Offline Zevida

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Butane lighters for Shabbat?
« on: December 10, 2008, 12:49:48 PM »
Hi guys! I'm hoping some of you can clear this up and save my poor Rabbi from yet another question from me. LOL

I've recently noticed that some Judaica sites are selling butane lighters for your Shabbat candles.  I've always used a match and let it burn itself out.  Wouldn't I be extinguishing a flame by letting go of the switch on a butane lighter?  Here's one of these lighters: http://www.moderntribe.com/judaica/Jewish_Home/tabletop_decor/lighter.  It's prettier than matches, but I'm just not sure if that's something I should be using.

I came across this article: http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_shabbatcandles.htm and according to the Rabbi who answered, Shabbat does not begin until sundown regardless of when you light the candles.  But I was taught that Shabbat begins for the woman who lights the candles as soon as the candles are lit.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. (Ps 137)

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Butane lighters for Shabbat?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 03:16:56 PM »
That Rabbi is right, BUT if one had this in mind she should go to Rabbi's (go to a Rabbi he will call 2 more witnesses in) and anull the custome/ way of doing before (since that was the thought of it for some time).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline q_q_

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Re: Butane lighters for Shabbat?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 03:26:12 PM »
Hi guys! I'm hoping some of you can clear this up and save my poor Rabbi from yet another question from me. LOL

I've recently noticed that some Judaica sites are selling butane lighters for your Shabbat candles.  I've always used a match and let it burn itself out.  Wouldn't I be extinguishing a flame by letting go of the switch on a butane lighter?  Here's one of these lighters: http://www.moderntribe.com/judaica/Jewish_Home/tabletop_decor/lighter.  It's prettier than matches, but I'm just not sure if that's something I should be using.

I came across this article: http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_shabbatcandles.htm and according to the Rabbi who answered, Shabbat does not begin until sundown regardless of when you light the candles.  But I was taught that Shabbat begins for the woman who lights the candles as soon as the candles are lit.

Any ideas?

Thanks!


there is a paragraph in that article that seems to be a very exceptional case, about making a mental reservation that shabbat will begin later, but lighting it earlier.

"if you have some major reason to light earlier than the indicated time and the candles will last sufficiently long after sunset, you can light, make the blessing, make a mental reservation that Shabbat will begin later - at sunset, and then do what you must, e.g. tend to a child's needs."

Most people that light it earlier do so without mental reservations that shabbat begins later. Shabbat is in.

I may be wrong about the following, but anyhow..

Butane lighter or match makes no difference. i.e. makes no difference whether butane is the fuel or wood is the fuel.. And the switch is not electricity, so no reason to worry about the fact that there is a switch. And anyhow, it is operated before the bracha, so shabbat is not in yet.

The woman(typically a woman), lights the candles, says the bracha. THEN, shabbat is in.
Once shabbat is in, you cannot extinguish a flame yourself.

If a match, it can be extinguished before the bracha.  Or if it wasn't, then it can be rested  down so it goes out itself.
If a butane lighter, it would be used before the bracha..  don't keep it aflame during the bracha , otherwise you would have to find some way not to extinguish it, e.g. if the switch latches then great then let it rest on the thing and lose all the butane you put in there!  I"m guessing that naturally not wanting to waste it, you would always extinguish it after lighting. Then make the bracha. So no problem.  It is no more problematic than a match.

You can light the candles earlier thus bring shabbat in earlier. When people say "light the candles" that implies doing the bracha afterwards, as it is always done afterwards.  (and not blowing the flame out or extinguishing the flame yourself after the bracha)



« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 03:34:59 PM by q_q_ »

Offline Zevida

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Re: Butane lighters for Shabbat?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 04:17:30 PM »
Ok, that makes perfect sense.  I guess it was just tradition in my home not to blow out the match.  And I guess I've always had the mindset that Shabbat starts as soon as the candles are lit, even before the blessing is said.  But based on what you're saying and what I've read everywhere on some other sites today, it starts with after the bracha, so it is alright to put the match out or use a butane lighter.  Thanks for helping me clear that up.  :)
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. (Ps 137)

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Butane lighters for Shabbat?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 09:38:39 PM »
You dont have to put the match out, just lay it down on a plate or on the thing where the candles are on, and it will extinguish itself. But before you go by accepting Shabb-t not with the candles lit, make Hataret Nedarim first.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/