Auto Deal Collapses!

[cjd]

It seems the bigger the bargaining unit is and the higher profile the better the pay, benefits and retirement is. Smaller groups don't have the ability to really force the company into doing much it really doesn't plan to anyway. In a rough contract the  company may toss in .15 or 20 cents an hour to sweeten the deal or bend some work rule but that's about it. Most groups have retirements that will have people retiring at there normal retirement age around 65. The exception to this comes in most cases in the municipal unions where teachers, police, and other civil service workers have large high profile groups that have the ability to really organize and get what they want. The auto workers fell into this category because of their very large bargaining units. The ones that really make me sick are the teachers who after a few years can make over 100g's and have more time off in one year then many folks would get in ten. Many of them are able to start very profitable business because the have the cash and the time off to do it. Best of all they retire after 25 years and collect large pensions and benefits for life. Then at the age of 55 most can go on to run their business full time. In the town where I live they just about approve their own contracts each contract cycle since they themselves are very involved in the school board. I like to see people paid well however there comes a limit to what the public itself in the private and public sector can and is willing to pay. Sadly its the motor companies that fell first and will have to take its lumps. Soon in many cases it will be the municipal workers in many cities where they have just pushed the envelope to far beyond where the taxpayers ability to pony up extends.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

Screw the Auto Workers. They need to stop making SUV's and they need to cut Retirement pay that is what is killing the Auto indisty. As Mitt Romney Said let them fail. The big 3 needs to become the big 2. All 3 can't compeate with Toyota and Honda because both Japanese Auto Makers are paying their workers less and they make much better cars.

[cjd]

Screw the Auto Workers. They need to stop making SUV's and they need to cut Retirement pay that is what is killing the Auto indisty. As Mitt Romney Said let them fail. The big 3 needs to become the big 2. All 3 can't compeate with Toyota and Honda because both Japanese Auto Makers are paying their workers less and they make much better cars.

I don't drive an SUV but I have a 25 year old Dodge pick up that I use for doing weekend projects. Some folks do need large vehicles to accommodate what they are doing or even just for seating capacity. The SUV market was very profitable until the price of gas went through the roof. People should be able to buy what they need. The trick for the motor companies is not to over produce and then be caught with tons of inventory. Toyota and Honda are making some very big SUV type vehicles that dwarf their domestic counterparts no one seems to complain about them. I have been in the auto business for 35 years and I will tell you that the product the American companies are making today despite all their problems is better then the foreign companies by far. Dollar for dollar you get more for your money buying American. I deal with them all since the Toyota's and Honda's have got bigger so have their problems. As they age they become twice the problem their domestic counterparts would ever be. Moreover their parts are expensive almost twice what domestic parts would cost. I have a 98 Ford with 260,000 miles on it and have only had to replace one or two small  parts on it. The car still looks like the day it left the factory. I would like to see how many  rice burners could match that record. The auto companies need to restructure. No merging. No bailouts if they are not viable its time to go. Their is absolutely no point in Chrysler and GM getting together neither one has anything the other needs. It seems like the Liberals in congress will finally get their wish of completely controlling the American car companies something they have been trying to do for years. I hope GM and Chrysler take the restructuring route and take their chances. Better to be out of business than be controlled by the likes of the animals in congress.

[~Hanna~]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

It's too bad they didn't care more about building housing or getting them off the streets as much as they cared about saving their mega-empires....

Just my 2 cents...

While I agree that more attention should be paid to Veterans... there is int NO way that Veterans make up 78% of homeless.  Im sure if you ask a homeless person... theyll say they are a veteran (Since they know it gives them extra pitty)... but they almost never are.

From what Ive been told by a guy in social services... .most of them are just druggies and alcoholics who do NOT want to work .    BUT!!!! in the upcoming years... Im sure the percentage that DO want to find work will go up dramatically... as it is starting to do worldwide.

Brian

Well, Ive worked in social services, too. Your guy is wrong about most being druggies an alcoholics. The cost of living is sky high, who can rent an apartment or buy a house on minimum wage?

When I was trying to keep from becoming homeless, I was referred to low income apartments, the cost of them started at $600.00 a month.

It kind of makes it difficult when they want your income to be four times the amount of what you will pay in rent.

[~Hanna~]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

It's too bad they didn't care more about building housing or getting them off the streets as much as they cared about saving their mega-empires....

Just my 2 cents...

I want our veterans to be well taken care of however I don't think that its the fault of the motor companies that they are not. Our government has never been very generous with the people who served in the military. This is something that they really should be ashamed of. If there is one group of people above all that should get first class treatment in time of need its people who served in our military.

I never said it was the fault of the motor companies....

I was saying that sometimes when you are attempting to build your own little empire here in the USA, sometimes it is good to think of people, such as the homeless veterans and try to help them. If you notice, none of them are petititioning Congress for better housing, etc, it is to BAIL THEM OUT.....!!! They are thinking of themselves, and that is it.

[cjd]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

It's too bad they didn't care more about building housing or getting them off the streets as much as they cared about saving their mega-empires....

Just my 2 cents...

I want our veterans to be well taken care of however I don't think that its the fault of the motor companies that they are not. Our government has never been very generous with the people who served in the military. This is something that they really should be ashamed of. If there is one group of people above all that should get first class treatment in time of need its people who served in our military.

I never said it was the fault of the motor companies....

I was saying that sometimes when you are attempting to build your own little empire here in the USA, sometimes it is good to think of people, such as the homeless veterans and try to help them. If you notice, none of them are petititioning Congress for better housing, etc, it is to BAIL THEM OUT.....!!! They are thinking of themselves, and that is it.

Most large companies will give veterans first crack at a job they can do which is a good policy. I hate to burst a socilist bubble here but corporations really have no obligation to help the veterans, the poor or anyone else in need beond their charitable programs see fit. Congress and the American taxpayer should see to their needs.

[briann]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

It's too bad they didn't care more about building housing or getting them off the streets as much as they cared about saving their mega-empires....

Just my 2 cents...

I want our veterans to be well taken care of however I don't think that its the fault of the motor companies that they are not. Our government has never been very generous with the people who served in the military. This is something that they really should be ashamed of. If there is one group of people above all that should get first class treatment in time of need its people who served in our military.

I never said it was the fault of the motor companies....

I was saying that sometimes when you are attempting to build your own little empire here in the USA, sometimes it is good to think of people, such as the homeless veterans and try to help them. If you notice, none of them are petititioning Congress for better housing, etc, it is to BAIL THEM OUT.....!!! They are thinking of themselves, and that is it.

Most large companies will give veterans first crack at a job they can do which is a good policy. I hate to burst a socilist bubble here but corporations really have no obligation to help the veterans, the poor or anyone else in need beond their charitable programs see fit. Congress and the American taxpayer should see to their needs.

Corporations don't do things for any other reason but to satisfy their shareholders, and once they start doing things that dont satisfy the shareholders... the management will be replaced.

Governments... on the other hand DO have an obligation to do support out veterans.

The duties of the two SHOULDNT be overlapped... as it always causes problems

You could say... why don't corporations do a lot of things..... Why dont they spend more time stopping the Islamification of America?, or why aren't they doing anything to stop teenage pregnancy?  The answer is... if they do this... the majority of shareholders will probably fire the officers, since that's not what they are contractually supposed to do.

it IS the GOVERNMENTS job to take care of the veterans.  IF that means ensuring more of individual and corporate taxes go towards paying back our veterans.. .then so be it.  But again.. this IS the job of the government.

I think its awful that all these companies are getting bailouts... because it is blurring the division between the public sector with the private... and that can cause terrible things.

Brian

[takebackourtemple]

If the auto industry collapses, it will make room for other companies to pop up. Hopefully better ones.

[~Hanna~]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

It's too bad they didn't care more about building housing or getting them off the streets as much as they cared about saving their mega-empires....

Just my 2 cents...

I want our veterans to be well taken care of however I don't think that its the fault of the motor companies that they are not. Our government has never been very generous with the people who served in the military. This is something that they really should be ashamed of. If there is one group of people above all that should get first class treatment in time of need its people who served in our military.

I never said it was the fault of the motor companies....

I was saying that sometimes when you are attempting to build your own little empire here in the USA, sometimes it is good to think of people, such as the homeless veterans and try to help them. If you notice, none of them are petititioning Congress for better housing, etc, it is to BAIL THEM OUT.....!!! They are thinking of themselves, and that is it.

Most large companies will give veterans first crack at a job they can do which is a good policy. I hate to burst a socilist bubble here but corporations really have no obligation to help the veterans, the poor or anyone else in need beond their charitable programs see fit. Congress and the American taxpayer should see to their needs.

Corporations don't do things for any other reason but to satisfy their shareholders, and once they start doing things that dont satisfy the shareholders... the management will be replaced.

Governments... on the other hand DO have an obligation to do support out veterans.

The duties of the two SHOULDNT be overlapped... as it always causes problems

You could say... why don't corporations do a lot of things..... Why dont they spend more time stopping the Islamification of America?, or why aren't they doing anything to stop teenage pregnancy?  The answer is... if they do this... the majority of shareholders will probably fire the officers, since that's not what they are contractually supposed to do.

it IS the GOVERNMENTS job to take care of the veterans.  IF that means ensuring more of individual and corporate taxes go towards paying back our veterans.. .then so be it.  But again.. this IS the job of the government.

I think its awful that all these companies are getting bailouts... because it is blurring the division between the public sector with the private... and that can cause terrible things.

Brian

Yes, my thoughts exactly, in a round about way....do you see what I mean?  The car companies are expecting the GOVT to bail them out, yet we don't sufficiently take care of our Veterans, homeless, etc...even elderly, disabled.....(in my state, elderly got kicked to the streets when massive budget cuts came down the pike via the Bush Administration).

The car companies (who are asking the govt to bail them out) should also be asking the govt to take care of their Veterans.....

THis is what I am talking about.....

Anyhoo, don't mind me.....I don't know what I am talking about half the time....

I just care alot....

[takebackourtemple]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

   I don't buy that argument. Especially the Hollywood image that they are mostly white. From what I've seen most of the Homeless bums in New York City, San Francisco are not Veteran's, but black drug addicts who were never willing to lift a finger to work. The only city where I have seen homeless who may have served in the armed forces is DC.
   The few that I have seen in DC are in their predicaments because they were injured and they have a totally different image. Even though they beg for money, they do it respectfully and they show pride for this country. Even the vast majority of those in DC are not veterans.

These two images are not the same:

[q_q_]

<snip>

I think you just found a potential movie star

[~Hanna~]

It's too bad the car companies didn't feel as bad about all the homeless Vet's in the USA we have now (78% of homeless are Veteran's).

   I don't buy that argument. Especially the Hollywood image that they are mostly white. From what I've seen most of the Homeless bums in New York City, San Francisco are not Veteran's, but black drug addicts who were never willing to lift a finger to work. The only city where I have seen homeless who may have served in the armed forces is DC.
   The few that I have seen in DC are in their predicaments because they were injured and they have a totally different image. Even though they beg for money, they do it respectfully and they show pride for this country. Even the vast majority of those in DC are not veterans.

These two images are not the same:

Wellll, I could be wrong on that statistic.....   BUt for some reason 78 PERCENT keeps popping up in my brain.....

BUt there are really a LOT of homelss whom are also VETERAN's...

Maybe I should do a bunch of research about it now...

 

I know everyone here thought I was perfect....