Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on December 21, 2008, 07:27:27 AM --- בס''ד
This rabbi was born and raised in Israel, and then abandoned Israel in 1989 when he was 21 years old. He has lived in America since 1989.
What a terrible example he sets for the Jewish people! If everyone did what he did, not only would the state of Israel be destroyed, the entire Jewish people would be destroyed, G-d forbid. He left Israel to make money in the Diamond District and then moved to anti-Zionist Monsey.
I wish our people here spoke Hebrew so I could give you links to what the leading rabbis in Eretz Yisrael say about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile).
--- End quote ---
Thank you, Chayim.
Very true. Although you don't need today's rabbis to tell you about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile). It's in the Mishna, the Talmudh, Maimonides, Nachmanides and pretty much every Halakhic work in existence that discussed the issue.
I say this not to diminish such rabbis today, only because certain Haredim today take the gedolim theory to such an extreme that they think that primary sources are worthless and the only thing one needs to do is ask the gedolim. And if the gedolim say that it's ok to take money for yeshivoth and vote for the Gush Katif Expulsion, then that is fine. I bet they would eat pork if Rav Elyashiv or Ovadia Yosef said it was ok.
And eating pork is a MUCH LESS SERIOUS sin that telling your Knesset members to take BRIBERY in order to vote for the Gush Katif Expulsion.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 20, 2008, 06:21:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: DownwithIslam on December 19, 2008, 12:19:58 PM ---<snip>
Q_Q, I know that JudeaNoncapta doesn't like Chabad, <snip>
--- End quote ---
just to be clear, I didn't say that.
I said that his argument about a third of the torah any time ,applies to them and most orthodox jews in the world....
--- End quote ---
Very true. I don't disagree.
There is no such thing as authentic Torah in the Galuth.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 21, 2008, 09:53:31 AM ---I won't really criticise rabbi mizrachi over it 'cos I am in galus and not making much effort to leave..
But from a purely academic perspective..
straight after the 3 oaths that charedim take literally and apply today.. It says
in tractate ketuvot 111A, (and that page has been mentioned before)
Rab Judah stated in the name of Samuel: As it is forbidden to leave the Land of Israel for Babylon so it is forbidden to leave Babylon for other countries. Both Rabbah and R. Joseph said: Even from Pumbeditha to Be Kubi.
--- End quote ---
It is interesting that while Maimonides takes the statement about not leaving Israel as a halakhic statement and includes it in the Mishne Torah, the three oaths which say Jews should stay in Exile he does NOT take as a halakhic statement and does NOT include in the Mishne Torah.
Just an interesting contrast.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 23, 2008, 05:12:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 21, 2008, 09:53:31 AM ---I won't really criticise rabbi mizrachi over it 'cos I am in galus and not making much effort to leave..
But from a purely academic perspective..
straight after the 3 oaths that charedim take literally and apply today.. It says
in tractate ketuvot 111A, (and that page has been mentioned before)
Rab Judah stated in the name of Samuel: As it is forbidden to leave the Land of Israel for Babylon so it is forbidden to leave Babylon for other countries. Both Rabbah and R. Joseph said: Even from Pumbeditha to Be Kubi.
--- End quote ---
It is interesting that while Maimonides takes the statement about not leaving Israel as a halakhic statement and includes it in the Mishne Torah, the three oaths which say Jews should stay in Exile he does NOT take as a halakhic statement and does NOT include in the Mishne Torah.
Just an interesting contrast.
--- End quote ---
There is a significant difference though in how the gemara introduces them.
The 3 oaths - verav..
I don't have a gemara at hand right now but I suspect that it doesn't say verav for the other statement.
I have heard that when the gemara says verav, it doesn't mean the rabbi himself said.. it may be the students having some kind of discussion on what their rabbi would say. I asked the person for a source, he said he heard it in a multi-part shiur about the 3 oaths at a chabad place.
I heard the same thing about verav, from an/the unreliable maimonidean.. so 2 completely different independent sources, there is probably something in it. But no 1st hand source about verav.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 23, 2008, 05:22:45 PM ---There is a significant difference though in how the gemara introduces them.
The 3 oaths - verav..
I don't have a gemara at hand right now but I suspect that it doesn't say verav for the other statement.
I have heard that when the gemara says verav, it doesn't mean the rabbi himself said.. it may be the students having some kind of discussion on what their rabbi would say. I asked the person for a source, he said he heard it in a multi-part shiur about the 3 oaths at a chabad place.
--- End quote ---
Don't you have a Neturei Karta rally to get ready for?
The Song of Songs of King Shlomo, in the Tanach, is about G-d celebrating, and encouraging, marital love and pleasure in the context of the marriage of Shlomo and the love of his life (the woman who is sunburnt because her brothers have forced her to toil away in the sun). But, being sexually frustrated (I assume, judging from your absurd responses in the Duggars thread), that is abhorrent to you, so you must rip it apart.
Only a brilliant "Torah scholar" such as yourself, or your gd "Rabbi" Teitelbaum, could construe such a beautiful book of Holy Scripture to be a manifesto for the destruction of Israel.
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