Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
Harzel:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 02:48:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 02:40:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:12:40 PM ---No, the haredi growth rate is atleast 50 percent higher.
--- End quote ---
Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
--- End quote ---
You are an absurdity. G-d forbid that anyone should say that Jews having a high birth rate is a problem.
Anyway the topic is not about Haredim and the state, etc. It is about the nations getting ride of their klippot and accepting the Noahide laws that G-d has intended for them.
( It's also a simple video I came across and wanted to share).
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, this is not the place for such activity.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:50:35 PM ---That is why I and machonshilo.org, an organization that I am one of the founding members of, work so hard to try and convince Haredi Jews that their views are not those of the Torah.
That's why I never give up on the Anti-Zionist Jews and just call them all Rodfim, because I used to be one and therefore I know that they can be reached.
--- End quote ---
Is machonshilo like a "countercult ministry" for Judaism (i.e. it exposes and refutes heretical views)?
I don't think we should give up on them either. I don't think they are all evil like the Satmar/NK--I think most of them probably do whatever their rebbes tell them without thinking. But for sure, if they are not reached, their views are very problematic and dangerous for the state of Israel.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 02:52:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 02:48:54 PM ---<snip>
Anyway the topic is not about Haredim and the state, etc. It is about the nations getting ride of their klippot and accepting the Noahide laws that G-d has intended for them.
( It's also a simple video I came across and wanted to share).
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, this is not the place for such activity.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi wasn't targetting against any particular religion. I don't think it is bad or offensive on a jewish forum to talk of the 7 laws
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 02:48:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 02:40:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:12:40 PM ---No, the haredi growth rate is atleast 50 percent higher.
--- End quote ---
Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
--- End quote ---
You are an absurdity. G-d forbid that anyone should say that Jews having a high birth rate is a problem.
Anyway the topic is not about Haredim and the state, etc. It is about the nations getting ride of their klippot and accepting the Noahide laws that G-d has intended for them.
( It's also a simple video I came across and wanted to share).
--- End quote ---
Although I agree with you, I have to say the CF is correct that if the Haredim became the majority of the country tommorow, we would not have acheived all that much. The buses would not run on Shabbath and the Pork stores would be outlawed. Big deal.
The Haredim are very zealous about fulfilling 200 or so commandments. It is the other 413 that they couldn't care less about.
The vast majority of the commandments are national in scope and can only be implemented by a government. The Haredim oppose a Jewish government and therefore oppose atleast 400 of the commandments of the Torah.
Their attitude is, "if our forefathers didn't do this commandment in Poland, Russia, Hungary, Morrocco, Iraq, etc. etc. etc. then it really must not be that important."
They therefore nullify the majority of the commandments and in fact the underpinning of the entire Torah. Exodus 19:6 "ו וְאַתֶּם תִּהְיוּ-לִי מַמְלֶכֶת כֹּהֲנִים, וְגוֹי קָדוֹשׁ, and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation."
This is underpinning of the entire Torah, that the Jewish people live as a nation with their own government(kingdom) and apply the laws of the Torah on a national scale(holy nation).
This idea is so scarce in the Haredi world that when Rav Bar Hayim quoted this Pasuq(verse) to a Haredi, he said "I've never heard anyone say such a thing in my whole life, Where did you get that from?"
That is a total breakdown in the correct understanding of the Torah. A TOTAL BREAKDOWN.
That is why, Tzvi Ben Roshel, I opposed your promotion of Rabbi Mizrahi and torahanytime.org
Because I knew that he was only teaching 200 commandments instead of 613.
Harzel:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 18, 2008, 02:58:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 02:52:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 02:48:54 PM ---<snip>
Anyway the topic is not about Haredim and the state, etc. It is about the nations getting ride of their klippot and accepting the Noahide laws that G-d has intended for them.
( It's also a simple video I came across and wanted to share).
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, this is not the place for such activity.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi wasn't targetting against any particular religion. I don't think it is bad or offensive on a jewish forum to talk of the 7 laws
--- End quote ---
Tzvi is referring to all other religion as 'klippot' that should be shed. But this attitude is counter productive to this movement.
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