Author Topic: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile  (Read 31250 times)

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Offline q_q_

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #175 on: December 24, 2008, 02:31:28 AM »
There is a significant difference though in how the gemara introduces them.

The 3 oaths - verav..

I don't have a gemara at hand right now but I suspect that it doesn't say verav for the other statement.

I have heard that when the gemara says verav, it doesn't mean the rabbi himself said.. it may be the students having some kind of discussion on what their rabbi would say.   I asked the person for a source, he said he heard it in a multi-part shiur about the 3 oaths at a chabad place.
Don't you have a Neturei Karta rally to get ready for?

The Song of Songs of King Shlomo, in the Tanach, is about G-d celebrating, and encouraging, marital love and pleasure in the context of the marriage of Shlomo and the love of his life (the woman who is sunburnt because her brothers have forced her to toil away in the sun). But, being sexually frustrated (I assume, judging from your absurd responses in the Duggars thread), that is abhorrent to you, so you must rip it apart.

Only a brilliant "Torah scholar" such as yourself, or your gd "Rabbi" Teitelbaum, could construe such a beautiful book of Holy Scripture to be a manifesto for the destruction of Israel.

You quoted me.
And made your comment.

Explain how what you just quoted is Pro Neturei Karta or even Pro Satmar

Infact, explain it in your own words. 

You can't and won't, because it would give away that you don't understand a word of what you quoted me saying.  You are not even jewish and this is a discussion about a passage from the talmud.

You of course once said that certain jews like me and you mentioned tzvi too, believe in jewish supremacy.. I suspect that you read that on some nazi anti talmud site. No other place makes such an allegation.

You mention another thread "Duggars thread".   I will provide you the link.
Nothing there is anything to do with satmar.
So if you are honest
Make your allegation in that thread
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29664.0.html
and we will discuss it.
Are you Willing to do that?


« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 02:38:31 AM by q_q_ »

Offline q_q_

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #176 on: December 24, 2008, 03:17:46 AM »
The idea that Tzvi and I believe we are part of a "master race"

That idea has to be from nazi style websites.. that jews think of themselves as a master race..  You CF just apply it to me. But that's where the idea comes from. Nazi websites.

I don't mean nazi as in everybody you call nazi.. You  or DWI compare the satmar rebbe to Hitler.    I mean, real nazis whom you learnt the expression from.   

 how an old earth does not contradict the torah, and even has some support
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23193.msg249606/topicseen.html#msg249606

qq
I(qq) bring up that CF has told jews like Tzvi and myself, that we think we are a master race.


DWI-
QQ, leave tzvi out of this. We are adressing you now. Dont Lump tzvi into this. I deal with tzvi seperately. Chaimfan did refer to your ideaology as the master race. He was not referring to judaism, as you qq are not jewish. You are basicly a muslim. Chaimfan was not referring to judaism as you QQQQQ, are already chayiv kares.



http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23330.msg249574.html#msg249574
thread: my response to q_q_
C.F.  July 13, 2008, 11:56:30 PM (this was to Tzvi)
Listen, genius, I know you think I am untermensch, but just because I am not part of your master race doesn't make me an idiot.

This was to me, but applying this master race thing to Tzvi and myself. (he obviously thinks booba is an insult, I guess any word from a foreign language for him is an insult, rude words are the parts of foreign languages that little kids love to learn. Rather worrying really, but anyhow.. More importantly.. here is what he said.)
C.F.
The only booba around here is you, genius. I notice you didn't deny anything I said. The .005% of Jews who think like you obviously consider yourselves a master race. Thanks for once again proving me right, and destroying your own credibility!

« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 03:34:23 AM by q_q_ »

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #177 on: December 24, 2008, 07:15:46 AM »
                                                                                                                                                                             בס''ד

This rabbi was born and raised in Israel, and then abandoned Israel in 1989 when he was 21 years old. He has lived in America since 1989.

What a terrible example he sets for the Jewish people! If everyone did what he did, not only would the state of Israel be destroyed, the entire Jewish people would be destroyed, G-d forbid. He left Israel to make money in the Diamond District and then moved to anti-Zionist Monsey.

I wish our people here spoke Hebrew so I could give you links to what the leading rabbis in Eretz Yisrael say about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile).



Thank you, Chayim.

Very true. Although you don't need today's rabbis to tell you about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile). It's in the Mishna, the Talmudh, Maimonides, Nachmanides and pretty much every Halakhic work in existence that discussed the issue.

From what I understand, Rabbi Mizrachi wasn't even religious at that point!   And second of all, the halacha is not that you cannot leave Eretz Yisrael under any circumstances.   You shouldn't, as a general rule, but for certain things you are allowed to leave by halacha.   Teaching Torah is actually one of the things that it is permitted for, and so is saving Jews from the goyim, which in America, means saving Jews from complete assimilation and complete excision from the Jewish people....   I don't agree with everything Rabbi Mizrachi says and does, but certainly he is trying to do that.    I am strongly opposed to his site however, for its refusal to host any Kahanist Torah material.   But let's not conflate the issues.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #178 on: December 24, 2008, 11:00:16 AM »
                                                                                                                                                                             בס''ד

This rabbi was born and raised in Israel, and then abandoned Israel in 1989 when he was 21 years old. He has lived in America since 1989.

What a terrible example he sets for the Jewish people! If everyone did what he did, not only would the state of Israel be destroyed, the entire Jewish people would be destroyed, G-d forbid. He left Israel to make money in the Diamond District and then moved to anti-Zionist Monsey.

I wish our people here spoke Hebrew so I could give you links to what the leading rabbis in Eretz Yisrael say about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile).



Thank you, Chayim.

Very true. Although you don't need today's rabbis to tell you about the horrific sin of a Jew leaving the Holy Land for the galut (exile). It's in the Mishna, the Talmudh, Maimonides, Nachmanides and pretty much every Halakhic work in existence that discussed the issue.

From what I understand, Rabbi Mizrachi wasn't even religious at that point!   And second of all, the halacha is not that you cannot leave Eretz Yisrael under any circumstances.   You shouldn't, as a general rule, but for certain things you are allowed to leave by halacha.   Teaching Torah is actually one of the things that it is permitted for, and so is saving Jews from the goyim, which in America, means saving Jews from complete assimilation and complete excision from the Jewish people....   I don't agree with everything Rabbi Mizrachi says and does, but certainly he is trying to do that.    I am strongly opposed to his site however, for its refusal to host any Kahanist Torah material.   But let's not conflate the issues.

 And on top of that like I said, someone could have asked him and then maybe debate his answer. Some people here have just slandered him and tried to turn Jews away from learning from him. That is unforgivable. We are warned that one who insults another publicly can have no Olam Haba. How much more soo when we see that Talmidei Hachamim are slandered and ridiculed (and not only their opinion, which okay their is room to argue agains't, but actually going after them personally). If someone here really cared they would have emailed him and ask him about his personal choice and why.
 - And I hope that people aren't stupid enough to continue adding more wood to the fire and conflating their insults, thus putting themselves into a deeper hole (for their sakes).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline muman613

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #179 on: December 25, 2008, 11:37:20 PM »
I agree with Tzvi and KWRBT that we should not be speaking like this against Rabbi Mizrachi. I really think he is doing the Jewish people a service by teaching Torah here. It is obvious that much slander has been spoken here and it is very upsetting. We must work to bring all Jews together to achieve what Hashem wants us to in this world. We all know the Chochma which relates the effects of Sinat Chinam. I see this going on almost daily here at JTF and I really hope that we agree that we can disagree without the baseless hatred.

The Baal Teshuva is in a difficult position because the FFB will always feel superior. But in truth we know what the accomplishments of the true Teshuva doer merit in Hashems eyes. My request from Jews of all levels is to recognize the neshamah of his fellow and reach out to bring him closer.

 
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline q_q_

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #180 on: December 31, 2008, 03:38:29 PM »
<snip>
The Baal Teshuva is in a difficult position because the FFB will always feel superior. <snip>

This is not true at all.

That will likely be your experience, but that's from your own failings.

I don't think many FFBs will feel superior to rabbi mizrachi.

You know you've actually turned what was a fairly intelligent - though perhaps slightly offensive - discussion into some kind of psychological nonsense.   It was really a specific action of leaving israel that was addressed, and can be talked about sensibly(by sensible people as many here have done).

You've just tried to divert the discussion by removing all useful content from it.   Everybody else dealt with the issues - while some said it was offensive, they still dealt with the issues.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 03:54:03 PM by q_q_ »

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #181 on: December 31, 2008, 03:43:18 PM »
"I don't think many BTs will feel superior to rabbi mizrachi. "

 As a side note -Rabbi Mizrachi himself is a Baal Tishuva.

The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline q_q_

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #182 on: December 31, 2008, 03:52:39 PM »
"I don't think many BTs will feel superior to rabbi mizrachi. "

 As a side note -Rabbi Mizrachi himself is a Baal Tishuva.



my mistake, I meant to say I don't think many FFBs will feel superior to Rabbi Mizrachi.  (it was in response to muman's comment)

though indeed, I don't think many BTs will either!

I just corrected my post.

Offline muman613

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #183 on: December 31, 2008, 07:40:41 PM »
"I don't think many BTs will feel superior to rabbi mizrachi. "

 As a side note -Rabbi Mizrachi himself is a Baal Tishuva.



my mistake, I meant to say I don't think many FFBs will feel superior to Rabbi Mizrachi.  (it was in response to muman's comment)

though indeed, I don't think many BTs will either!

I just corrected my post.

You q_q_ prove my point daily here. Just keep it up :)
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline q_q_

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Re: Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
« Reply #184 on: December 31, 2008, 08:28:07 PM »
"I don't think many BTs will feel superior to rabbi mizrachi. "

 As a side note -Rabbi Mizrachi himself is a Baal Tishuva.



my mistake, I meant to say I don't think many FFBs will feel superior to Rabbi Mizrachi.  (it was in response to muman's comment)

though indeed, I don't think many BTs will either!

I just corrected my post.

You q_q_ prove my point daily here. Just keep it up :)


I told you, a FFB may feel superior to you, but not superior to Rabbi Mizrachi.

So, your point that FFBs will always feel superior to BTs is simply not true.