Author Topic: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'  (Read 1376 times)

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Offline Americanhero1

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'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« on: December 29, 2008, 01:46:01 PM »
Turkey says it will no longer mediate between Tel Aviv and Damascus, stating that the Israeli attacks on Gaza has made peace 'impossible'.
"The continuation of the talks under these conditions is naturally impossible," Turkey's Foreign Minister Ali Babacan told reporters after a meeting with visiting Egyptian counterpart Ahmed Abul Gheit.

"Waging war against Palestinians while negotiating peace with Syria - these two cannot go together," he added, pointing out that Ankara was greatly 'disappointed' with Israel's actions.

Babacan's remarks came just days after Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert visited the country to discuss regional security issues.

On Sunday, a senior Syrian official also said that Israel had 'closed the door on all activity in the political process' of reaching a peace deal by massacring over 300 people in Gaza and wounding around 1,500 others.

During the weekend, Israeli fighter jets bombarded at least 30 different locations across Gaza, which included schools, a television station, a mosque, and a prison.

The deadly attacks that have sparked worldwide protests were also condemned by Ankara, the key mediator in four rounds of talks held between Damascus and Tel Aviv over the faith of the Israeli occupied Golan Heights.

"To go and bomb these defenseless people, and to openly say that this operation will be a long-lasting one, that it will be this or that, to me, is a serious crime against humanity," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Sunday.

Meanwhile on Monday, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak claimed that the regime's massive operation was in 'self-defense' and in response to the rocket fire from the Gaza Strip.

"This operation will expand and deepen as much as needed… We went to war to deal a heavy blow to Hamas, to change the situation in the south," he said.

"We do not want to hit children and women and we will not prevent humanitarian aid" from reaching Gaza, he added.

This is while truck loads of humanitarian aid wait on outside Gaza border crossings as Israel continues to prevent the passage of vital supplies into the costal strip.

Just hours after a six-month Egypt-mediated ceasefire with Hamas ended on December 19, Israeli warplanes flew over Gaza to kick start anew round of hostilities. During the December 20 operation, a Palestinian was killed and two others were seriously wounded.

In retaliation to the attack, Hamas launched several homemade rockets into Israel, none of which led Israeli casualty. However, Israeli officials used the rocket attacks as an excuse to launch an all-out attack on the Gaza Strip on December 27.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=79854&sectionid=351020204

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 02:01:59 PM »
This is an Iranian news article, so it's not surprising how distorted it is.  What business did Turkey have "mediating" for Israel to begin with?  Is this a joke?  How ridiculous is that?

Offline Ulli

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 02:37:17 PM »
Turkey had under the rule of the Kemalists good relations to Israel. But now Abdullah Gül and Erdogan are ruling this country. They are real quranimals. Even lots of good Turkish people hate them.

I exspected this. Olmert is a fool to work with this kind of ("people") quranimals.
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Offline Cato

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 03:31:50 PM »
Turkey had under the rule of the Kemalists good relations to Israel. But now Abdullah Gül and Erdogan are ruling this country. They are real quranimals. Even lots of good Turkish people hate them.

I exspected this. Olmert is a fool to work with this kind of ("people") quranimals.

The present Turkish government is a wolf in sheep's clothing - a throwback to the 70's when they were hanging students for thinking for themselves. Alcohol is now so heavily taxed for religous reasons that wine has become a luxury. They disguise all this in their attempt to look respectable enough to join the EU. The contradiction for Turkey will always be that democracy by the people needs the secular military to save it from the Islam which the majority still strongly follow. 

As one thoughful Iranian once told me, most of the people in Iran are more progressive than their government, whereas in Turkey the reverse is true. I guess that a lot of people would disagree on this, but personally I believe it to be true. Another contradiction is that the Kemalists during the time of Ataturk were the progressives, whereas nowadays the progressives (if you can find them) are somewhere else, leaving the conservatives to deify Ataturk even though they would all have opposed him when he was alive.

By the way, Ataturk was a Jew, and there's something you don't hear too often in Turkey. They could find out about it from YouTube, but that's banned.

Contradictions in that country are a way of life. You shouldn't think too hard about them.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 03:44:32 PM by carreg »

Offline Ulli

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 03:43:29 PM »
Turkey had under the rule of the Kemalists good relations to Israel. But now Abdullah Gül and Erdogan are ruling this country. They are real quranimals. Even lots of good Turkish people hate them.

I exspected this. Olmert is a fool to work with this kind of ("people") quranimals.

The present Turkish government is a wolf in sheep's clothing - a throwback to the 70's when they were hanging students for thinking for themselves. They disguise this in their attempt to look respectable enough to join the EU. The contradiction for Turkey will always be that democracy by the people needs the secular military to save it from the Islam which the majority still strongly follow. 

As one thoughful Iranian once told me, most of the people in Iran are more progressive than their government, whereas in Turkey the reverse is true. I guess that a lot of people would disagree on this, but personally I believe it to be true. Another contradiction is that the Kemalists during the time of Ataturk were the progressives, whereas nowadays the progressives (if you can find them) are somewhere else, leaving the conservatives to deify Ataturk even though they would all have opposed him when he was alive.

By the way, Ataturk was a Jew, and there's something you don't hear too often in Turkey. They could find out about it from YouTube, but that's banned.

Contradictions in that country are a way of life. You shouldn't think too hard about them.

I agree with you on all, except the Atatürk Jew issue.

I think it is propaganda by the quranimals.
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Offline Cato

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 03:51:16 PM »
Turkey had under the rule of the Kemalists good relations to Israel. But now Abdullah Gül and Erdogan are ruling this country. They are real quranimals. Even lots of good Turkish people hate them.

I exspected this. Olmert is a fool to work with this kind of ("people") quranimals.

The present Turkish government is a wolf in sheep's clothing - a throwback to the 70's when they were hanging students for thinking for themselves. They disguise this in their attempt to look respectable enough to join the EU. The contradiction for Turkey will always be that democracy by the people needs the secular military to save it from the Islam which the majority still strongly follow. 

As one thoughful Iranian once told me, most of the people in Iran are more progressive than their government, whereas in Turkey the reverse is true. I guess that a lot of people would disagree on this, but personally I believe it to be true. Another contradiction is that the Kemalists during the time of Ataturk were the progressives, whereas nowadays the progressives (if you can find them) are somewhere else, leaving the conservatives to deify Ataturk even though they would all have opposed him when he was alive.

By the way, Ataturk was a Jew, and there's something you don't hear too often in Turkey. They could find out about it from YouTube, but that's banned.

Contradictions in that country are a way of life. You shouldn't think too hard about them.

I agree with you on all, except the Atatürk Jew issue.

I think it is propaganda by the quranimals.

It is difficult to see why the existing Islamic state should wish to concede that it was created by someone with a Jewish background. I am told that Ataturk's father belonged to a Jewish sect existing along the Black Sea. Ataturk was quite well acquainted with several Jewish texts. He was not allowed to attend an Islamic school, receiving religous instruction at home, and so much of his later attitudes and reforms fall into place when this is accepted. The sect has now disappeared, with it's members having assimilated into the Istanbul business community, but I am told that his father's religion was well recorded in documents which still exist. 

Offline Ulli

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 04:06:51 PM »
In my country there were major debates on quranimal websites about Atatürk's forefathers.

The accusation of the quranimals were everytime the claim of the Jewish family of Kemal Pascha.

I really doubt that there is truth in it.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Cato

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 04:24:43 PM »
In my country there were major debates on quranimal websites about Atatürk's forefathers.

The accusation of the quranimals were everytime the claim of the Jewish family of Kemal Pascha.

I really doubt that there is truth in it.

We can agree that he was not a practicing Jew. Unfortunately this reduces the number of gifted Turkish politicians in the last millenium from One to Zero.

Offline mord

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 04:35:08 PM »
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/ataturks-turkey-overturned/58997/ 




Some kind of Jewish



Ataturk's Turkey Overturned
By HILLEL HALKIN | July 24, 2007
 

Some 12 or 13 years ago, when I was reporting from Israel for the New York weekly, the Forward, I wrote a piece on Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey, that I submitted to the newspaper with some trepidation.

In it, I presented evidence for the likelihood of Ataturk's having had a Jewish � or more precisely, a Doenmeh � father.

The Doenmeh were a heretical Jewish sect formed, after the conversion to Islam in the 17th century of the Turkish-Jewish messianic pretender Sabbetai Zevi, by those of his followers who continued to believe in him.

Conducting themselves outwardly as Muslims in imitation of him, they lived secretly as Jews and continued to exist as a distinct, if shadowy, group well into the 20th century.

In the many biographies of Ataturk there were three or four different versions of his father's background, and although none identified him as a Jew, their very multiplicity suggested that he had been covering up his family origins.

This evidence, though limited, was intriguing. Its strongest item was a chapter in a long-forgotten autobiography of the Hebrew journalist, Itamar Ben-Avi, who described in his book a chance meeting on a rainy night in the late winter of 1911 in the bar of a Jerusalem hotel with a young Turkish captain.

Tipsy from too much arak, the captain confided to Ben-Avi that he was Jewish and recited the opening Hebrew words of the Shema Yisra'el or "Hear O Israel" prayer, which almost any Jew or Doenmeh � but no Turkish Muslim � would have known. Ten years later, Ben-Avi wrote, he opened a newspaper, saw a headline about a military coup in Turkey, and in a photograph recognized the leader that the young officer he had met the other night.

At the time, Islamic political opposition to Ataturk-style secularism was gaining strength in Turkey. What would happen, I wondered, when a Jewish newspaper in New York broke the news that the revered founder of modern Turkey was half-Jewish? I pictured riots, statues of Ataturk toppling to the ground, the secular state he had created tottering with them.

I could have spared myself the anxiety. The piece was run in the Forward, there was hardly any reaction to it anywhere, and life in Turkey went on as before. As far as I knew, not a single Turk even read what I wrote. And then, a few months ago, I received an e-mail from someone who had. I won't mention his name. He lives in a European country, is well-educated, works in the financial industry, is a staunchly secular Kemalist, and was writing to tell me that he had come across my article in the Forward and had decided to do some historical research in regard to it.

One thing he discovered, he wrote, was that Ataturk indeed traveled in the late winter of 1911 to Egypt from Damascus on his way to join the Turkish forces fighting an Italian army in Libya, a route that would have taken him through Jerusalem just when Ben-Avi claimed to have met him there.

Moreover, in 1911 he was indeed a captain, and his fondness of alcohol, which Ben-Avi could not have known about when he wrote his autobiography, is well-documented.

And here's something else that was turned up by my Turkish e-mail correspondent: Ataturk, who was born and raised in Thessaloniki, a heavily Jewish city in his day that had a large Doenmeh population, attended a grade school, known as the "Semsi Effendi School," that was run by a religious leader of the Doenmeh community named Simon Zvi. The email concluded with the sentence: "I now know � know (and I haven't a shred of doubt) � that Ataturk's father's family was indeed of Jewish stock."

I haven't a shred of doubt either. I just have, this time, less trepidation, not only because I no longer suffer from delusions of grandeur regarding the possible effects of my columns, but because there's no need to fear toppling the secular establishment of Kemalist Turkey.

It toppled for good in the Turkish elections two days ago when the Islamic Justice and Development Party was returned to power with so overwhelming a victory over its rivals that it seems safe to say that secular Turkey, at least as Ataturk envisioned it, is a thing of the past.

Actually, Ataturk's Jewishness, which he systematically sought to conceal, explains a great deal about him, above all, his fierce hostility toward Islam, the religion in which nearly every Turk of his day had been raised, and his iron-willed determination to create a strictly secular Turkish nationalism from which the Islamic component would be banished.

Who but a member of a religious minority would want so badly to eliminate religion from the identity of a Muslim majority that, after the genocide of Turkey's Christian Armenians in World War I and the expulsion of nearly all of its Christian Greeks in the early 1920s, was 99% of Turkey's population? The same motivation caused the banner of secular Arab nationalism to be first raised in the Arab world by Christian intellectuals.

Ataturk seems never to have been ashamed of his Jewish background. He hid it because it would have been political suicide not to, and the secular Turkish state that was his legacy hid it too, and with it, his personal diary, which was never published and has for all intents and purposes been kept a state secret all these years. There's no need to hide it any longer. The Islamic counterrevolution has won the day in Turkey even without its exposure.

    Mr. Halkin is a contributing editor of The New York Sun.
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Cato

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 06:38:12 AM »
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/ataturks-turkey-overturned/58997/ 




Some kind of Jewish



Ataturk's Turkey Overturned
By HILLEL HALKIN | July 24, 2007
 

Some 12 or 13 years ago, when I was reporting from Israel for the New York weekly, the Forward, I wrote a piece on Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey, that I submitted to the newspaper with some trepidation.

In it, I presented evidence for the likelihood of Ataturk's having had a Jewish � or more precisely, a Doenmeh � father.

The Doenmeh were a heretical Jewish sect formed, after the conversion to Islam in the 17th century of the Turkish-Jewish messianic pretender Sabbetai Zevi, by those of his followers who continued to believe in him.

Conducting themselves outwardly as Muslims in imitation of him, they lived secretly as Jews and continued to exist as a distinct, if shadowy, group well into the 20th century.

In the many biographies of Ataturk there were three or four different versions of his father's background, and although none identified him as a Jew, their very multiplicity suggested that he had been covering up his family origins.

This evidence, though limited, was intriguing. Its strongest item was a chapter in a long-forgotten autobiography of the Hebrew journalist, Itamar Ben-Avi, who described in his book a chance meeting on a rainy night in the late winter of 1911 in the bar of a Jerusalem hotel with a young Turkish captain.

Tipsy from too much arak, the captain confided to Ben-Avi that he was Jewish and recited the opening Hebrew words of the Shema Yisra'el or "Hear O Israel" prayer, which almost any Jew or Doenmeh � but no Turkish Muslim � would have known. Ten years later, Ben-Avi wrote, he opened a newspaper, saw a headline about a military coup in Turkey, and in a photograph recognized the leader that the young officer he had met the other night.

At the time, Islamic political opposition to Ataturk-style secularism was gaining strength in Turkey. What would happen, I wondered, when a Jewish newspaper in New York broke the news that the revered founder of modern Turkey was half-Jewish? I pictured riots, statues of Ataturk toppling to the ground, the secular state he had created tottering with them.

I could have spared myself the anxiety. The piece was run in the Forward, there was hardly any reaction to it anywhere, and life in Turkey went on as before. As far as I knew, not a single Turk even read what I wrote. And then, a few months ago, I received an e-mail from someone who had. I won't mention his name. He lives in a European country, is well-educated, works in the financial industry, is a staunchly secular Kemalist, and was writing to tell me that he had come across my article in the Forward and had decided to do some historical research in regard to it.

One thing he discovered, he wrote, was that Ataturk indeed traveled in the late winter of 1911 to Egypt from Damascus on his way to join the Turkish forces fighting an Italian army in Libya, a route that would have taken him through Jerusalem just when Ben-Avi claimed to have met him there.

Moreover, in 1911 he was indeed a captain, and his fondness of alcohol, which Ben-Avi could not have known about when he wrote his autobiography, is well-documented.

And here's something else that was turned up by my Turkish e-mail correspondent: Ataturk, who was born and raised in Thessaloniki, a heavily Jewish city in his day that had a large Doenmeh population, attended a grade school, known as the "Semsi Effendi School," that was run by a religious leader of the Doenmeh community named Simon Zvi. The email concluded with the sentence: "I now know � know (and I haven't a shred of doubt) � that Ataturk's father's family was indeed of Jewish stock."

I haven't a shred of doubt either. I just have, this time, less trepidation, not only because I no longer suffer from delusions of grandeur regarding the possible effects of my columns, but because there's no need to fear toppling the secular establishment of Kemalist Turkey.

It toppled for good in the Turkish elections two days ago when the Islamic Justice and Development Party was returned to power with so overwhelming a victory over its rivals that it seems safe to say that secular Turkey, at least as Ataturk envisioned it, is a thing of the past.

Actually, Ataturk's Jewishness, which he systematically sought to conceal, explains a great deal about him, above all, his fierce hostility toward Islam, the religion in which nearly every Turk of his day had been raised, and his iron-willed determination to create a strictly secular Turkish nationalism from which the Islamic component would be banished.

Who but a member of a religious minority would want so badly to eliminate religion from the identity of a Muslim majority that, after the genocide of Turkey's Christian Armenians in World War I and the expulsion of nearly all of its Christian Greeks in the early 1920s, was 99% of Turkey's population? The same motivation caused the banner of secular Arab nationalism to be first raised in the Arab world by Christian intellectuals.

Ataturk seems never to have been ashamed of his Jewish background. He hid it because it would have been political suicide not to, and the secular Turkish state that was his legacy hid it too, and with it, his personal diary, which was never published and has for all intents and purposes been kept a state secret all these years. There's no need to hide it any longer. The Islamic counterrevolution has won the day in Turkey even without its exposure.

    Mr. Halkin is a contributing editor of The New York Sun.


Very interesting, and thanks for this. Personally I believe it to be extremely important that everybody, especially Turks and the USA administration, should understand that Turkey was dragged out of the Middle Ages despite of, and not because of, Islam. And also that it was done by someone who knew the Turks well enough not to want to give them democracy. With democracy they are now going backwards faster than an Italian tank. Opponents of the continued existence of the EU should support Turkish membership with all haste.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2008, 06:40:36 AM »
No loss at all. I hope Israel hasn't sold any real weapons to Turkey.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline q_q_

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 06:50:34 AM »
I don't know anybody that has met one.  Sabbateans are almost unheard of. They believe in being righteous through sin..

According to a british researcher that wrote an article in the anti-orthodox rag "the JC", he met a reform "rabbi" that is a sabbatean.

Here is one sabbatean group.

This doesn't mean that they control the world by the way! But they do exist.

http://www.donmeh-west.com/
 "The other Jews call me a heretic. Well, I am. And worse, an iconoclast too: my goal is nothing less than the breaking of all religious containers (and not just Judaism) for the sake of liberating God. In the words of my 18th century namesake and predecessor, Yakov Leib Frank, 'All the faiths and conducts and the books that have been written till today -- everyone who reads in them is like someone who has turned his head backwards and is looking at things already dead. All of it comes from the Gate of Death. But the wise man's eyes are ever in his head so he must look towards He-Who-Walks-In-Front.' Like Frank and the other radical antinomian Kabbalists who came before him, I worship God and not religion; I seek for His salvation and not my own.....or, even less-so, yours."

-- Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain

Offline q_q_

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:31 AM »
they are a heterodox movement.. associated with the bektashi(a heterodox sufi group) who apparently may also believe in righteousness through sin ..

rabbi antelman mentions the sabbateans in his books vol1,2. He has many references to books by Gershom Scholem.

Offline Ulli

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 07:00:04 AM »
I don't know anybody that has met one.  Sabbateans are almost unheard of. They believe in being righteous through sin..

According to a british researcher that wrote an article in the anti-orthodox rag "the JC", he met a reform "rabbi" that is a sabbatean.

Here is one sabbatean group.

This doesn't mean that they control the world by the way! But they do exist.

http://www.donmeh-west.com/
"The other Jews call me a heretic. Well, I am. And worse, an iconoclast too: my goal is nothing less than the breaking of all religious containers (and not just Judaism) for the sake of liberating G-d. In the words of my 18th century namesake and predecessor, Yakov Leib Frank, 'All the faiths and conducts and the books that have been written till today -- everyone who reads in them is like someone who has turned his head backwards and is looking at things already dead. All of it comes from the Gate of Death. But the wise man's eyes are ever in his head so he must look towards He-Who-Walks-In-Front.' Like Frank and the other radical antinomian Kabbalists who came before him, I worship G-d and not religion; I seek for His salvation and not my own.....or, even less-so, yours."

-- Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain


Is this serious or a bad joke?
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline q_q_

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 07:22:01 AM »
I don't know anybody that has met one.  Sabbateans are almost unheard of. They believe in being righteous through sin..

According to a british researcher that wrote an article in the anti-orthodox rag "the JC", he met a reform "rabbi" that is a sabbatean.

Here is one sabbatean group.

This doesn't mean that they control the world by the way! But they do exist.

http://www.donmeh-west.com/
"The other Jews call me a heretic. Well, I am. And worse, an iconoclast too: my goal is nothing less than the breaking of all religious containers (and not just Judaism) for the sake of liberating G-d. In the words of my 18th century namesake and predecessor, Yakov Leib Frank, 'All the faiths and conducts and the books that have been written till today -- everyone who reads in them is like someone who has turned his head backwards and is looking at things already dead. All of it comes from the Gate of Death. But the wise man's eyes are ever in his head so he must look towards He-Who-Walks-In-Front.' Like Frank and the other radical antinomian Kabbalists who came before him, I worship G-d and not religion; I seek for His salvation and not my own.....or, even less-so, yours."

-- Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain


Is this serious or a bad joke?

It's real.

I recall Gershom Scholem - an academic researcher  - wrote that there was a "moderate" branch that believed in breaking all laws against G-d.. (e.g. with the 10 commandments, that's reversing the first 5 of the 10 commandments) And an extreme branch that believed in breaking all laws against G-d and man.. e.g. the reverse of the 10 commandments - murder, commit adultary e.t.c.

Traditional/classical thinking is that they were ancient history.. But you do hear about them from time to time even in regular news sources.  causing trouble too!   

The JC is an anti-orthodox rag, but many jews in britain get it every week anyway.. There's alot of time to read over shabbat so if there is one good sentence or article in the paper, or one amusing error,  anywhere in it, I'd find it.  I wouldn't suggest looking for good articles on it. These are articles I found on paper over years shabbatot(plural of shabbat) flicking through, and I remembere them and I picked them up through their search.

http://website.thejc.com/home.aspx?AId=16664&ATypeId=1&search=true2&srchstr=shabbetai&srchtxt=0&srchhead=1&srchauthor=0&srchsandp=0&scsrch=0

Turkey's secret sect
12/12/2003
Mordechai Beck
"
Mordechai Beck explores a bizarre link...

According to Eli Shai — whose recent book on Shabbetai Tzvi (“Messiah of Incest,” published in Hebrew last year) challenged many of the assumptions about this disturbing messianic figure — there may be tens of thousands of Donmeh followers in Turkey today.

Outwardly, these Sabbateans — who would not themselves use the term Donmeh, “heretic” in Turkish — have taken on the appearance of Muslims. Yet they retain their own prayerbook, tattoos, burial customs, as well as an affinity to the old language of Sephardi Jewry, Ladino.

Its members are also said to engage in a range of secret rituals, said by some to include orgies and wife-swapping rites meant to produce a messiah, a transmigration of Shabbetai Tzvi’s soul.
"


Turkish community chief disowns ‘plotter rabbi’
http://www.thejc.com/node/8412
Sami Kohen
November 20, 2008

The Jewish community in Turkey has warned that the case of a supposed convert to Judaism accused of being involved in a conspiracy to overthrow the government may stir antisemitic feeling.

Tuncay Guney, 36, left Turkey in 2004 and emigrated to Canada, where he reportedly adopted the Jewish faith and became a "rabbi" in Toronto.
...
He claimed that he was born Jewish, because he was a Sabbetist, a descendent of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire who followed the false Messiah Sabbetai Sevi and converted to Islam in the 17th century.
Turkish Jews have been concerned with the huge publicity that Mr Guney has been receiving in the country's media.
..
What concerns the Jews here is the sudden appearance of Mr Guney as a rabbi. His picture showing him with a beard and an apparently Charedi outfit has been widely published in the Turkish media and been described as the "Haham" (Jewish sage).
..
From Canada, Mr Guney said in interviews with several Turkish television channels that he was working as a rabbi at the Beith Jacob synagogue in Toronto.
..
Mr Ovadia reported that the Jewish community had made inquiries in Toronto and found no sign of Mr Guney being a rabbi at the Beith Jacob synagogue.


Offline Ulli

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2008, 07:36:46 AM »
I have read both articles.  :o
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Zelhar

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 09:35:59 AM »
Just having a Doenmeh father or even if both parents were Doenmeh doesn't make Mustafa Kemal Jewish. Anyway the Doenmeh are sick perverted sect of people who followed the evil shabtaii zvi and converted to Islam while secretly maintaining their some of their odd and deranged beliefs and practices. They consider themselves turks and not Jews and have nearly completely assimilated into the general Turkish population.

Kemal himself was probably an atheist although he might have received some Domneh teachings during his upbringing.   

Offline syyuge

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 11:29:18 AM »
QUOTE>>
Turkey says it will no longer mediate between Tel Aviv and Damascus, stating that the Israeli attacks on Gaza has made peace 'impossible'.   
<<UNQUOTE

It means that perpetual rocket firings from so-called Gaza to Israel were keeping up alive the flames of peace.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Cato

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Re: 'Turkey no longer mediating for Israel'
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2008, 11:41:03 AM »
QUOTE>>
Turkey says it will no longer mediate between Tel Aviv and Damascus, stating that the Israeli attacks on Gaza has made peace 'impossible'.   
<<UNQUOTE

It means that perpetual rocket firings from so-called Gaza to Israel were keeping up alive the flames of peace.
Also that they are apparently not relevant to the defence past between Turkey and Israel which actually still exists..