Is Islam beautiful? What does this question even mean?

[zachor_ve_kavod]

You know, after 9/11 we heard all sorts of people (including our own president) talk about how islam is a "beautiful" religion.  I have never understood that.  The concept of beauty is an aesthetic claim, not a moral one.  So how can a religion be beautiful, or more importantly, is it at all important that a religion be beautiful?  What makes a religion beautiful anyhow?

I think I do understand what is underneath it all.  Islam is exotic.  It is like it is from another world.  Even though it is 600+ years younger than Christianity, islam seems like it is ancient.  This is not really a good thing, if you think about it.  To the westerner, islam is beautiful because it is primitive. 

Just one more word about beauty.  Not only is beauty a claim about aesthetics and not about morality or function, the aesthetic claim it makes is completely non-contextualized.  Whether true or not (and I can see what the mindless, secular, Leftist sees attractive about islam) the aesthetic claim of beauty has nothing to do with beauty in the context in which it exists.  Think about some of the things that may be aesthetically beautiful in the non-contextualized sense and you will see what I mean.  And you will see why looking at the beauty of something in this non-contextualized way is a dangerous and morally wrong thing to do.

For instance, one could argue that just according to aesthetic principles, an explosion is beautiful.  If a person didn't know what he was looking at, he could say that an explosion is beautiful.  Looking at the red and yellow colours of the explosion against a blue background, sure, you could say that it is beautiful.  However, knowing what it is, knowing the details about the event in which the explosion took place, who caused it and for what purpose, who may have gotten killed by it, and so on, no moral person would call an explosion beautiful.  This is because a moral person would consider the significance of the context of the explosion and not just the aesthetic properties of it.  I have never heard a person refer to an explosion as beautiful, and yet from a purely aesthetic sense, it can be considered such.  The point is, moral people with any intellect do not look upon things in such a detached way.

And yet, that is exactly how Leftists look upon islam.  They see some islamic symbols, art, dress, ritual, phrases and so on, as beautiful.  They completely ignore the context or the significance of what it is they are looking at.  This is a fundamentally flawed way of perceiving anything, let alone something as important as a religious or political doctrine.

So the next time you hear someone talk about how islam is a beautiful religion, know that they are looking at it in a very mindless and morally bankrupt way.

[muman613]

Judaism is a much more beautiful religion.

It is much older and more ancient.

It has many symbols with primitive meanings.

It has special dress and other outward manifestations {tzit-tzits , mezuzzah}

The only problem is that Judaism is non-proselytizing and we don't try to convert the world.

The only thing which I conclude is that those who think Islam is beautiful are evil. The foolish evil inclination shuts their eyes from seeing the evilness of Islam and allow them to be fooled into seeing only what they want to see.

Islam is evil while Judaism is beautiful.

I have a poster on my wall "Proud to be Jewish".

[Muck DeFuslims]

For instance, one could argue that just according to aesthetic principles, an explosion is beautiful.  If a person didn't know what he was looking at, he could say that an explosion is beautiful.  Looking at the red and yellow colours of the explosion against a blue background, sure, you could say that it is beautiful.  However, knowing what it is, knowing the details about the event in which the explosion took place, who caused it and for what purpose, who may have gotten killed by it, and so on, no moral person would call an explosion beautiful.  This is because a moral person would consider the significance of the context of the explosion and not just the aesthetic properties of it.  I have never heard a person refer to an explosion as beautiful, and yet from a purely aesthetic sense, it can be considered such.  The point is, moral people with any intellect do not look upon things in such a detached way.

I don't know. Everytime I see a mosque explode, I say BEAUTIFUL !!

So the next time you hear someone talk about how islam is a beautiful religion, know that they are looking at it in a very mindless and morally bankrupt way.

Don't worry. Anytime I hear anyone say something good about Islam, I know they're mindless.

[q_q_]

zachor,  having known muslims, I think they refer to the quran - an arabic recitation..the quality of the arabic.  And to the simplicity of their religion that all the rules of how to live life are set out. And the structure is imple enough that scholars can actually memorize the quran and hadith.. if you watch an islammic scholar, then when asked a question, they can rattle off the relevant verses from the quran, and the relevant hadith, and give the conclusion.  Sadly rabbis don't do that, maybe because the talmud is far bigger than the hadith, and we have the shulchan aruch and it's all way more complicated.

Funnily enough , a muslim scholar writing in a jewish paper, said that judaism has this great advantage of having the mishna, and talmud, one law.  Muslims have 4 "schools of thought". So in that sense, in terms of structure, islam is more complex.

 

[zachor_ve_kavod]

zachor,  having known muslims, I think they refer to the quran - an arabic recitation..the quality of the arabic.  And to the simplicity of their religion that all the rules of how to live life are set out. And the structure is imple enough that scholars can actually memorize the quran and hadith.. if you watch an islammic scholar, then when asked a question, they can rattle off the relevant verses from the quran, and the relevant hadith, and give the conclusion.  Sadly rabbis don't do that, maybe because the talmud is far bigger than the hadith, and we have the shulchan aruch and it's all way more complicated.

Funnily enough , a muslim scholar writing in a jewish paper, said that judaism has this great advantage of having the mishna, and talmud, one law.  Muslims have 4 "schools of thought". So in that sense, in terms of structure, islam is more complex.

Judaism is far more complex, a far richer tradition than islam.  It has managed to maintain its relevance in a context far different than the context in which it was created.  This speaks to the timelessness of Judaism.  This is not only because of infinite significances of the Torah, but also because of the wonderful exegesis of the Rabbis.  Islam is not comprable to Judaism in this regard.

Also, keep in mind that "complexity", as well as "beauty" are descriptions that are empty of ethical content.  Even if islam was more complex or beautiful than Judaism, (which it isn't), that still makes no statement about the moral character of islam.

 

[Jorje15]

There are good and bad parts about the Jewish faith the good part is that every one of them are on this fourm the bad part is on Friedays where the fourm is closed you can't do anything intill Saturday at sun down. While is Islam says their piecefull thats false right there. Check out my new videos on YouTube look for my topic it will have the Video icon plus the (?) for the new poll.

[muman613]

There are good and bad parts about the Jewish faith the good part is that every one of them are on this fourm the bad part is on Friedays where the fourm is closed you can't do anything intill Saturday at sun down. While is Islam says their piecefull thats false right there. Check out my new videos on YouTube look for my topic it will have the Video icon plus the (?) for the new poll.

Huh? You don't observe Shabbat? If you are Jewish I don't want to know. But it is a very good thing that JTF observes Shabbat. I can't believe you think it is bad...

PS: If your not Jewish then have some understanding of our faith.

[Xoce]

You know, after 9/11 we heard all sorts of people (including our own president) talk about how islam is a "beautiful" religion.  I have never understood that.  The concept of beauty is an aesthetic claim, not a moral one.  So how can a religion be beautiful, or more importantly, is it at all important that a religion be beautiful?  What makes a religion beautiful anyhow?

I think I do understand what is underneath it all.  Islam is exotic.  It is like it is from another world.  Even though it is 600+ years younger than Christianity, islam seems like it is ancient.  This is not really a good thing, if you think about it.  To the westerner, islam is beautiful because it is primitive. 

Just one more word about beauty.  Not only is beauty a claim about aesthetics and not about morality or function, the aesthetic claim it makes is completely non-contextualized.  Whether true or not (and I can see what the mindless, secular, Leftist sees attractive about islam) the aesthetic claim of beauty has nothing to do with beauty in the context in which it exists.  Think about some of the things that may be aesthetically beautiful in the non-contextualized sense and you will see what I mean.  And you will see why looking at the beauty of something in this non-contextualized way is a dangerous and morally wrong thing to do.

For instance, one could argue that just according to aesthetic principles, an explosion is beautiful.  If a person didn't know what he was looking at, he could say that an explosion is beautiful.  Looking at the red and yellow colours of the explosion against a blue background, sure, you could say that it is beautiful.  However, knowing what it is, knowing the details about the event in which the explosion took place, who caused it and for what purpose, who may have gotten killed by it, and so on, no moral person would call an explosion beautiful.  This is because a moral person would consider the significance of the context of the explosion and not just the aesthetic properties of it.  I have never heard a person refer to an explosion as beautiful, and yet from a purely aesthetic sense, it can be considered such.  The point is, moral people with any intellect do not look upon things in such a detached way.

And yet, that is exactly how Leftists look upon islam.  They see some islamic symbols, art, dress, ritual, phrases and so on, as beautiful.  They completely ignore the context or the significance of what it is they are looking at.  This is a fundamentally flawed way of perceiving anything, let alone something as important as a religious or political doctrine.

So the next time you hear someone talk about how islam is a beautiful religion, know that they are looking at it in a very mindless and morally bankrupt way.

Zachor_ve_kavod, you are brilliant, and always very insightful.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Thank you Xoce, that's very kind of you.