Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Hakamim that rejected Kabbalah
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 20, 2009, 11:59:20 AM ---q_q_,
I could care less that you have your 'good-buddies' who you want to prove something to. I can care less whether you believe or you don't believe in Kabbalah, and I can care less what you think about RAMBAM. <snip>
--- End quote ---
that is a massive improvement, no assumptions.
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 20, 2009, 11:59:20 AM ---It is not my duty to correct your sick character traits. You pretty much meet my expectations as a rude, crude, and un-friendly loner.
--- End quote ---
good
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 19, 2009, 03:51:30 PM --- I am of the opinion that most rabbis do believe that there is Sod {Hidden} meaning in Torah.
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I agree that of course there is hidden meaning in Torah, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, on either side of the debate. The point is, Zohar is not it. Or in other words, Sod is not limited to what's in the Zohar or kabbalistic seforim. And just because zohar claims the title of "sod" of the Torah, does not make everything in it true and/or infallible.
And no, I don't see anything childish about this discussion accept the first post, which caused all the response. If the author can't take the heat or the debate, he shouldn't post sheker.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 20, 2009, 01:14:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 19, 2009, 03:51:30 PM --- I am of the opinion that most rabbis do believe that there is Sod {Hidden} meaning in Torah.
--- End quote ---
I agree that of course there is hidden meaning in Torah, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, on either side of the debate. The point is, Zohar is not it. Or in other words, Sod is not limited to what's in the Zohar or kabbalistic seforim. And just because zohar claims the title of "sod" of the Torah, does not make everything in it true and/or infallible.
And no, I don't see anything childish about this discussion accept the first post, which caused all the response. If the author can't take the heat or the debate, he shouldn't post sheker.
--- End quote ---
I do agree with everything that you wrote KWBT. I do not argue that Zohar is all there is to Sod, or even Kabbalah. But amongst most of the Rabbis I have listened and read the Zohar is pretty much accepted. I am not arguing to prove Zohar or even Kabbalah.
Im sorry if I implied your response was childish. What I find beneath us is namecalling and bickering about things which cannot be proved in this world.
Lubab:
Did anyone see how the Rambam went into detail in that Chapter from Hilchos Yesodei Hatorah about how G-d created the physical and spiritual worlds. That IS kabbalah (how G-d created the world). The Rambam is right there teaching you Kabbalah and some here are still claiming he rejects kabbalah?! This is madness.
I think these people just don't know what kabbalah is. They think kabbalah=something illogical and mystical. When it fact it is quite logical, and only appears mystical to those that don't understand what it is saying.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on January 16, 2009, 11:05:14 AM ---Awesome discussion.
Lubab, I have thought these things about angels for a long time and it makes everything much more clear and logical.
Even when someone says something kind to someone and it effects them in a positive way... then they are kind to someone else and it continues. I would consider this type of "force" set forth into motion a type of angel (as stated when someone "creates" good or bad angels). But I do believe that there is an even deeper spiritual level to these entities that we cannot perceive and that they do have a type of "life" from Hashem.
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Yes! And this is also the notion of the sending off the "weekday angels" and welcoming the "shabbos angels". These "angels" are the frame of mind of the person. We say goodbye to the weekday attidute where we are focusing on means to an end and hello to the shabbos angels which are when we think about goals primarily.
And yes, there are deeper and deeper kind of angels, and infinite amount of angels, in fact as it says "is there any numbers to His troops?" Job 25:3
P.S. I would disagree with the notion that even demons are given slight mention in the Talmud. Demons many times.
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