Author Topic: Palestinians in Lebanon.  (Read 5705 times)

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Offline q_q_

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2009, 10:56:26 AM »
you're not referring to palestinian refugees then..  when you said the majourity of jordan is palestinian.

<snip>
Most Jordanians citizens are "Palestinians" by definition (descendant of Arabs that lived west of the Jordan river during the British mandate).

All obviously.
The ones East of the jordan river  too because that was also part of the british mandate of palestine.  So your "most" jordanian citizens are palestinians would apply to -all- jordanians!
And any palestinian refugees in jordan are of course palestinians too.

So what you say here is just what I said earlier.. you just narrow it for no good reason!


Though if your wikipedia quote is correct, they lose palestinian claim (can't say palestinian citizenship 'cos there isn't one!) when they get jordanian citizenship. A legal point but also a decision on their part.

It's interesting that in the UN definition, there's something along the lines of "palestinian" refugees and their descendents are "palestinian"  "in perpetuity".  I may able to find the exact quote.. It's completely unique to palestinians! completely ridiculous "bias" by the UN to perpetuate their refugee status beyond those of any other people, and to perpetuate Israel's "problem".

Between 1949-1967 all "west bankers" were Jordanian citizens.

It was named Jordan in 1950

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_country_Jordan_founded
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3464.htm



After 1967 they were able to freely enter and exit Jordan, both Israel and Jordan had allowed this, I think until 1987 when Jordan officially relinquished its claim for Judea and Samaria.

You say All, as in all palestinians in jordan, but according to your wikipedia quote it just says "palestinian". It means any palestinian anywhere, whether in lebanon or syria or iraq e.t.c. can emigrate to Jordan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
"Jordan has a law that states that any Palestinian may immigrate and obtain Jordanian citizenship, but must remit his/her Palestinian claim"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
"The fact that Jordan has peace with the surrounding countries, combined with its stability, has made it a preference for many Palestinians, Lebanese, and people from the Persian Gulf immigrants and refugees."


Of course, they don't make up jordan unless they are there!!!!!!  
And west bankers are not in Jordan. And apparently most of them did not take jordanian citizenship. (see later in this post)
So when I said something like "Besides the fact that jordanians are palestinians because it came from mandatory palestine.. what do you mean when you say jordan is majourity palestinians". You just meant exactly what I had said really that jordanians are palestinian - you just put "majourity" in there for some reason.



Quote from: zelhar
The name was changed to 'Jordan' in 1949 following the conquest and annexation of Judea and Samaria.

1950

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3464.htm
"The mandate over Transjordan ended on May 22, 1946; on May 25, the country became the independent Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. .....
In 1950, the country was renamed the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to include those portions of Palestine annexed by King Abdullah I. While recognizing Jordanian administration over the West Bank, the United States maintained the position that ultimate sovereignty was subject to future agreement.
"


Interesting that they annexed it, but , didn't offer the "palestinians" there citizenship when they did..  

Here is another source that says the offered it in the 1960s

http://www.islam-watch.org/Swadhin/Who-Will-Adopt-Palestine.htm
"In the 1960s, Jordan had offered Palestinians citizenship. Some took it, but most did not, preferring their refugee camps to Jordan"

No doubt they didn't, because, it meant giving up their "palestinian claim".

I had often heard the argument Israel wouldn't annex the west bank because they can't afford to give them citizenship. It seems that one has nothing to do with the other.  I guess if they had annexed it, the arabs there could have gone anywhere in israel.. The key would have been to annex it in 1967  since apparently at that time the arabs had fled(expecting jews to treat them as they would treat jews).. and that idiot moshe dayan invited them back!

Offline q_q_

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2009, 10:59:06 AM »
Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..

Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
*sniff sniff*

I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?

In future address these concerns to the moderators.
If I had created a character then I wouldn't tell people, would I.

I notice you have a picture of Tzippi Livni. With the writing "I love chicks".. over it.  So it's Tzippi Livni and Condi Rice. What AWEFUL taste in women you have. You may as well just come out of the closet!!

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2009, 11:36:28 AM »
The law in an Arab country is usually a just a set of dead letters. I don't believe Jordan would let every 'Palestinian' from anywhere to immigrate and grant him citizenship, I wish they did though. According to the definition there are two conditions to fulfill- live west of the river and during mandate time. This excludes the Arabs east of the rivers. The condition might also be narrowed further- only the British mandate after the illegal division and creation of Transjordan, I suppose the official definition follows somewhat that line, and disregarding the fact that the creation of Transjordan out of 70% of the mandate territory was entirely illegal. 

From what I read the name had been changed to Jordan in 1949 and the official annexation was enacted in 1950.

I meant that the citizens of Jordan are majority 'Palestinian' (the majority among residents is even greater). Now if they really don't call themselves 'Palestinians' or whatever I couldn't care less. They are the same group of people and the rest of this group may join them and call itself whatever it likes.

It is interesting to observe how flexible these definitions are to the Arabs- The Bedouins in Israel insist that they are 'Palestinian', most of these people are the same as the 'pure' Jordanians who in Jordan insist they are not Palestinians. The rest of the Bedouins are from Egypt, Sudan, and the Magreb. There are also tens of thousands of illegal aliens from Jordan who intermarry and stay in Israel and become 'Palestinians'.

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2009, 12:16:34 PM »
Zelhar I dont know what.. I was simply not talking to you.. I am just addressing the post to people who are more civilized than you. Mainly qq..

Don't put your nose, fanatic stupid....
*sniff sniff*

I smell something fishy here. Are you a fictitious username created by q_q?

Morning C.F. I would like to say that I do not trust any Christian Arabs, they are sympathetic to the Moslem Arabs. I question the conversion of Arab Moslems to Christianity, while they claim to be Christian, their loyalties seem to steer into the direction of the Moslems.
Moslems must never be trusted under any circumstances!

                                                                                   Shalom - Dox

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2009, 04:18:05 PM »
also, this should be the international community concern. France, US and the West never cared about the Christians of Lebanon after the war. US fought against us during the war. The money is used to help the Palestinians. Europe is more concerned with its relations with the Arab countries. USA never cared and I dunno what the US wants from us. They simply asked us to leave the country before the war. Iran is using its money in Lebanon. Saudi Arabia also. The problem is bigger than having us buying the lands. Like I said, a big number of the lands don't need to be bought. They are us already. The problem is more political. In the Chouf, the situation is instable. Even though you have lands, the Druzes may commit a massacre against you and put you out. In the South, Hezbollah is very fanatic and arrogant. In Beirut, the Sunni killed PM Rafik Hairiri passed laws that led to the non appropriation of many Lebanese of homes in Beirut. They made West Beirut a sunni one. There are places for the Christians like Metn, Keserwan, East Beirut, the majority I guess of the North. The Bekaa was 80 % Christians, now it is 80% Chiites. Many Lebanese sold their lands but I do not consider that this was the real catastrophe on us. We were more pushed out by the huge powers in the world than simply given up. I don t want to justify but I am simply trying to advise me on what we can do. How we can gain the world sympathy and stop telling us nationalize your palestinians.

This is the only thing that will stop the Nazi Moslems ~>  :nuke:

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Palestinians in Lebanon.
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2009, 11:52:32 AM »
How 'Nakba' Proves There's No Palestinian Nation   
By Steven Plaut
The Jewish Press | Tuesday, May 06, 2008

Over the past few years, the term nakba (also spelled naqba) has become the favorite nonsense word of the Anti-Israel Lobby. Meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic, it has been embraced by anti-Semites all over the planet to refer to Israel’s creation, which supposedly imposed a “catastrophe” upon the “disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs.”

Of course, the real catastrophe that befell the Arabs in 1948-49 was that they failed in their attempt to annihilate Israel and exterminate its population, and for that they paid a price.

Meanwhile, Nakba Nonsense has been spreading. Google finds over 85,000 web pages referring to Israel’s creation as a “nakba,” and a Yahoo search finds even more than that. The anti-Israel web magazine Counterpunch cannot mention Israel without using the term. Even Israel’s leftist minister of education, Yuli Tamir, has orderedthat the nakba be taught as partof the curriculum in Israeli schools, where Israel’s schoolchildren can be taught to mourn their own country’s existence.

(Tamir, who was previously a professor of education at Tel Aviv University, is so bizarre that in the summer of 1996 she published an article in the Boston Review defending female circumcision in the Third World and denouncing those who expressed disgust at the practice – see http://bostonreview.net/BR21.3/Tamir.html.)

Nakba ceremonies are now held each year by leftist professors at Israeli universities who mourn the very creation and existence of their country.

The nakba of the late 1940’s and 1950’s that befell large numbers of Jews living in Arab countries who were suddenly expelled, persecuted, and stripped of their property does not interest such people. Those Jewish refugees made new homes in Israel and actually outnumbered the Palestinians who fled.

Meanwhile, an urban legend has been fabricated about the origin of the term “nakba” – a fairy tale that claims the word was a banner waved by Palestinians starting in 1948, and that its very use shows how deep the roots of “Palestinian nationality” go.

So here is a little current events quiz: What is the real origin of the term “nakba” and what is its original meaning?

If you get the answer to the quiz wrong – in other words, if you say it refers to the events of 1948 – you are in very good company. I myself would have flunked the quiz up until a few days ago, when I stumbled on the correct answer. Not only does the bandying about of the “nakba” nonsense word not point to any “depths of roots of Palestinian nationality,” it proves the very opposite: namely, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation or nationality at all.

The authoritative source on the origin of “nakba” is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first “official historian of Palestinian nationalism.” Like so many “Palestinians,” he actually wasn’t – Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities.

Antonius was an “official Palestinian representative” to Britain, trying to argue the cause for creating an Arab state in place of any prospective homeland promised the Jews under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. By the 1930’s Antonius was an active anti-Zionist propagandist, and as such was offered a job at Columbia University (where some things don’t seem to change much).

He served as an academic fig leaf for xenophobic Arab nationalists seeking to deny Jews any right to self-determination in or migration to the Land of Israel. And he was closely associated with the Grand Mufti, Hitler’s main Islamic ally, and also with the pro-German regime in Iraq in the early 1940’s.

Antonius was so passionately anti-Zionist that he continues to serve as the hero and mentor of Jewish leftist anti-Zionists everywhere. For example, the late Hebrew University sociology professor Baruch Kimmerling relied on Antonius at length in his own pseudo-history, Palestinians: The Making of a People (Free Press, 1993).

So how does Antonius provide us with the answer to the current-events quiz concerning the origin of “nakba”? The term was not invented in 1948 but rather in 1920. And it was coined not because of Palestinians suddenly getting nationalistic but because Arabs living in Palestine regarded themselves as Syrian and were enraged at being cut off from their Syrian homeland.

Before World War I, the entire Levant – including what is now Israel, the “occupied territories,” Jordan, Lebanon and Syria – was comprised of Ottoman Turkish colonies. When Allied forces drove the Turks out of the Levant, the two main powers, Britain and France, divided the spoils between them. Britain got Palestine, including what is now Jordan, while France got Lebanon and Syria.

The problem was that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians and were seen as such by other Syrians. The Palestinian Arabs were enraged that an artificial barrier was being erected within their Syrian homeland by the infidel colonial powers – one that would divide northern Syrian Arabs from southern Syrian Arabs, the latter being those who were later misnamed “Palestinians.”

The bulk of the Palestinian Arabs had in fact migrated to Palestine from Syria and Lebanon during the previous two generations, largely to benefit from the improving conditions and job opportunities afforded by Zionist immigration and capital flowing into the area. In 1920, both sets of Syrian Arabs, those in Syria and those in Palestine, rioted violently and murderously.

On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.”

Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That’s 1920 – when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no “settlements” in “occupied territories,” no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850).

The original “nakba” had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba – at this catastrophe– because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians.

In the 1920’s, the very suggestion that Palestinian Arabs constituted a separate ethnic nationality was enough to send those same Arabs out into the streets to murder and plunder violently in outrage. If they themselves insisted they were simply Syrians who had migrated to the Land of Israel, by what logic are the Palestinian Arabs deemed entitled to their own state today?

Palestinian Arabs are no more a nation and no more entitled to their own state than are the Arabs of Detroit or of Paris. They certainly are not entitled to four different states: Jordan, Hamastan in Gaza, a PLO state in the West Bank, and Israel converted into yet another Arab state via the granting of a “right of return” to Arab refugees.

Speaking of Palestinians as Syrians, it is worth noting what one of the early Syrian nationalists had to say. The following quote comes from the great-grandfather of the current Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad:

“Those good Jews brought civilization and peace to the Arab Muslims, and they dispersed gold and prosperity over Palestine without damage to anyone or taking anything by force. Despite this, the Muslims declared holy war against them and did not hesitate to massacre their children and women…. Thus a black fate awaits the Jews and other minorities in case the Mandates are cancelled and Muslim Syria is united with Muslim Palestine.”
That statement is from a letter sent to the French prime minister in June 1936 by six Syrian Alawi notables (the Alawis are the ruling class in Syria today) in support of Zionism. Bashar’s great-grandfather was one of them.

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=88B96F89-450D-4156-9B83-3BEBB1FA9BDD

So modern Philistinians are in fact muslim Syrians and granpa of current Iranian head pupet of Syria was in fact a Zionist.  ;D
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm