The "sell out" of the Shas Party.

[DownwithIslam]

Shas endorses pipi for PM and even worse, endorses Ehud Barach as defense minister.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233050185200&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Ulli]

Is Shas a socialist party?

[q_q_]

Is Shas a socialist party?

It's a religious party led by rabbi ovadia yosef (you might have heard of him!)

they like the govt to give them money for their yeshivot.. in return they help the govt get elected..

he has been pro Oslo, then he turns and says arabs are snakes. He basically doesn't care what the foreign policy is, as long as he gets money for his yeshivot.  So he argues the halacha whichever way.

Most Sefaradim in israel like him because he's their guy.. it's an ethnic thing.
Like blacks like Obama.

He is a scholar, known for having great sources.. though I have heard that other scholars have said his sources are great but his conclusions are off.

I remember years ago, he said Israel should give land, because it brings PEACE. (that was wrong on 2 counts).. But the obvious fact is that that it wouldn't bring peace.  Many many years later.. he turned.. saying it's still true we should give land when it brings peace, but TRUE peace, and this isn't giving true peace.

(in reality, even if giving land brings peace, we shouldn't do it(from what I have heard from rabbis including rabbi kahane, is we can't even give the enemy a straw from our land). And the idea that we can commit a sin to bring peace, that's also nonsense.. And it won't bring peace.  So he's actually wrong on 3 counts)

[Ulli]

Is Shas a socialist party?

It's a religious party led by rabbi ovadia yosef (you might have heard of him!)

they like the govt to give them money for their yeshivot.. in return they help the govt get elected..

he has been pro Oslo, then he turns and says arabs are snakes. He basically doesn't care what the foreign policy is, as long as he gets money for his yeshivot. 

Most Sefaradim in israel like him because he's their guy.. it's an ethnic thing.
Like blacks like Obama.

He is a scholar, known for having great sources.. though I have heard that other scholars have said his sources are great but his conclusions are off.

OK, but what is Shas general point of welfare?

Like I understand, they are for social aid in many forms.

[q_q_]

Is Shas a socialist party?

It's a religious party led by rabbi ovadia yosef (you might have heard of him!)

they like the govt to give them money for their yeshivot.. in return they help the govt get elected..

he has been pro Oslo, then he turns and says arabs are snakes. He basically doesn't care what the foreign policy is, as long as he gets money for his yeshivot. 

Most Sefaradim in israel like him because he's their guy.. it's an ethnic thing.
Like blacks like Obama.

He is a scholar, known for having great sources.. though I have heard that other scholars have said his sources are great but his conclusions are off.

OK, but what is Shas general point of welfare?

Like I understand, they are for social aid in many forms.

It's meant to be a judaism party..  Judaism doesn't talk about capitalism and communism.. 

they don't have an ideological position about welfare..

but *effectively* they are pro welfare , in the sense that they like it going to them so they can build yeshivot.  It's not a stance of judaism nor is it a stance against judaism. Though judaism gives a thumbs up to growing yeshivot.

infact, one reason why the religious oppose zionism is that they oppose all ideologies , and only accept Torah! (the idea of religious zionism and it being rooted in torah, grew later.. most of them have never heard the idea. But if they did they wouldn't call it zionism. Hence religious zionist parties call themselves National Religious.  Ovadia Yosef is non zionist.. not really national religious - dunno if he claims to be NR. Tzvi is Sefaradi, and likes shas)

actually many Sefaradim are quite right wing but support shas.. for reason mentioned.. ovadia is their man.  and a scholar.  Maybe tzvi knows why they don't support rabbi mordechai eliyahu - another Sefaradi chief rabbi - one rabbi kahane was close to.

[Ulli]

I think I have understood it. Shas is a religious Jewish party, that stands for a special stream in Judaism. They didn't care much about other people around them and are only involved in politics as long if it concerns their group.

I think I see my own oppinions concerning my society to a certain ammount in the Shas ideology. 

But they are Jews who live in Israel. This is a huge difference. If they would live elsewhere I would find nothing wrong in their attitude.

[Spectator]

I am not a Sefaradi, but let me say something to defend Shas.

Shas is not pro-welfare. Shas is for proper distribution of money in accordance with Judaism.

Yes, they advocate payments for the families who have many children.
That is because there is a G-d's commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Shas doesn't say that families with many children should live on welfare and not to work; they only say about small sums of money to HELP them.

Yes, they advocate budgets to build and maintain yeshivot(the places where adult Jews study Torah) and religious schools for small children and teenagers
That's because there is a G-d's commandment to study Torah and to teach Torah to the chidren.

Where they want to take money from?

From defense budget?
No, because there are G-d's commandments to be careful about one's life and to settle the Land of Israel.
Israeli Defence Forces do this holy duty.

So where? Here's one example.
Israeli universities have pay exaggerated wages to the lecturers many of whom are rather lazy and work less hours that they really must.  

Moreover, humanitarian faculties of the universities are strongholds of Letist Atheistic Elite. They teach future Israeli sociologists, diplomats, historians, etc. to be leftists. That is why it is today taken for granted in Israel that people of these occupations are leftists.

(Of couse, I don't advocate closing universities. Israeli life & computer sciences, technology, etc. is cutting-edge forefront of the world science. We are proud of it. The message is clear - to investigate what is bad in the universities and cut finance of that areas.)

In short, Shas wants to take the money from actions and entities that are OPPOSED to Judaism and to use it to SUPPORT Judaism.

And the Shas is RIGHT in promotion the interests of Sefaradi Jewry. They were OPRESSED and DISCRIMINATED for the first 30 years of the existence of the State. The consequences of it are felt up to now. Besides, the Atheistic Ashkenazi (European) Israeli Elite has done much to make Sefaradi Jewry atheistic.

Oriental Jews are not any better and not any worse than Western Jews.

Rabbi Mordechay Eliyahu and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef are the two great leaders of the Oriental Jewry. Their arguments are, as Talmud says, in the Name of Heaven.

P.S. DownWithIslam, please filter out your words when talking about Shas. To insult Shas is like to insult Rabbi Ovadia himself.
You may disagree and criticize them, but no one is allowed to insult Torah Sages!
Please change the name of the topic.

[Ulli]

I have changed it.

[q_q_]

<snip>
Rabbi Mordechay Eliyahu and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef are the two great leaders of the Oriental Jewry. Their arguments are, as Talmud says, in the Name of Heaven.
<snip>

I doubt that Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu flip flops. And i'm sure he is more right wing.

Do sephardim like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef so much more than all others, or do you think it's just that he runs Shas.

I heard somewhere that even when Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu was chief rabbi, the sephardim had alleegiance to rabbi ovadia yosef.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/867038.html
"
Yishai tells Peres: Rabbi Ovadia has decided to support you for president

Shas Chairman Eli Yishai told Vice Premier Shimon Peres yesterday that the party will support his bid for the presidency, having gotten the nod to do so from its spiritual leader, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.
"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Maybe tzvi knows why they don't support rabbi mordechai eliyahu - another Sefaradi chief rabbi - one rabbi kahane was close to.

Many Sephardim and many religious zionist love the great Rav mordechai Eliyahu, but Sephardic haredi voters probably tend to vote more for Shas because Rav Eliyahu has been a backer of NRP rather than haredi parties.  And haredi parties are what get the moolah to haredi yeshivot, which many Shas voters attend.  But Rav Eliyahu is also an undisputed gaon in Torah and has always been a leader of the Jewish people.   

In a youtube video of Rav Kahane at Yeshiva University, one of the snot-nosed American kids asked him "who's your Rav?"  and Rav Kahane said back, something like, "First of all it's none of your business, but since you asked, I'll tell you, it's Rav Mordechai Eliyahu."   When Rabbi Kahane had a halachic inquiry that he himself could not figure out, he went to Rabbi Eliyahu.

It's probably Rabbi Eliyahu's very rightwing politics that make the mainstream downplay his greatness, but even the haredi establishment cannot deny that he is a gadol in Torah.   (I read that in the early days of the state, in the 1950's Rav Eliyahu was involved in plots to take over the knesset on behalf of Torah Jews and real Jewish nationalism.   If only he had succeeded and prevented so many of the Israeli govt's crimes against the Jewish people.   It seems he was ahead of his time.  I believe his authentic views are what got him canned from chief rabbi slot too.   He was very open about what he thought of Arabs).   

[q_q_]

rav mordechai eliyahu is a dayan, apparently the youngest person ever elected as a dayan in israel

that's actually suprising 'cos I heard that religious zionists find it difficult to become dayanim in israel.. prob politics too.

I guess maybe if he was young, his views weren't well known at that time!