To Chaim - Do you have what it takes? Answer to my question on last Ask JTF

[Manch]

Hi Chaim,
I understand your position insofar as not willing to give a support to Bibi for the dubious benefit of increasing your chances of moving to Israel. That is understandable.
But here is a major flaw with your logic: you suggested that you are not ready to sacrifice your principles and interests of Jewish people to gain personal benefits and, even, for larger benefits to JTF. I don't see this dichotomy. I don't see how your interests and interests of JTF, as a whole, are separable from the interests of the Jewish nation.   In fact, you being in Galut is of extreme detriment to Jewish people. Much more so than your personal perception of "integrity". You open support for Likud may not be able to increase your chances of getting in, but it will increase them. At a card table, you can't play goody-goody with cheaters. I think you need to talk to people in Likud, Israel Beitenu, National Unity to explore inroads for securing "favorable" review of your application.

And, G-d forbid to see the day when Jewish people will appeal to "honest" Chaim to come from exile to save them. You know, that this will happen, if it will, only after a national tragedy. And we can't afford that. I am not asking you to trade yours and our principles - I am asking you to be more pragmatic, to assign priorities to our objectives. The highest one, IMO, is for you to make Alia - your appeal is mostly for Israelis, I doubt that we can build it big in America, but there is no doubt in my mind that you (we) can make it big in Israel.

Shalom and good luck!

[Rubystars]

At least nobody should ever be able to accuse Chaim of being a flip flopper. If he changes his mind, it's for a logical reason.

[Dr. Dan]

Chaim is absolutely right with his answer to you on this.  Bibi is right wing socialist who lies and will give up land and sell out the Jewish people...You might as well tell him to support Olmert, Livni, Peres, Barakh, etc..Bibi is essentially the same as those folks..

Yisrael Beteinyahu...ok, you would have an arguement here because they are the closest to what the Kahanist movement believes in..but that's also a stretch.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If Hayamin makes it big in Israel, then we will stand a much greater chance of succeeding in America.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yisrael Beteinyahu...ok, you would have an arguement here because they are the closest to what the Kahanist movement believes in..but that's also a stretch.

Uh, you're kidding right?   They're not even close.

[Manch]

Dear All, my point was not to pass a judgement on the merits of voitng for Bibi, Avigdor or National Union. I was suggesting the following:
Premise:
1) JTF/Chaim's interests are inseparable from the interests of Jewish people
AND
2) Chaim's message and delivery resonates much better with Israelis than with Americans and we can only become a mass movement with CBP is in Israel
This dictates:
2) Chaim to utilize these "elections" to increase his chances of getting into Israel. It goes without saying that with Bibi as a PM, Chaim's chances are better than with Tzipi.
Who to support is up to Chaim. I would recommend to consider Bibi. An open support for Bibi,will indicate a willingness to play a game, "moderation" and a general non-threatening posture. Bibi, obviously, will be much better dealing with Iran, and that is an existential threat to Israel right now. Avigdor probably is a bad choice, but he used to be a member of Kach.

So, I am appealing to Chaim to make wise political decision - not to compromise our ideas. Once you are there, it will be all worth it. Chaim, are you listening?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

How will Chaim's "support" for Likud get him a better chance of being allowed into Israel?   You're suggesting a quid pro quo of some sort?    Why would those backstabbing phonies posing as a supposed 'rightwing' in Likud ever live up to their end of any bargain, and furthermore, Chaim's endorsement of a phony so-called "rightwing" group that will only betray the national camp could sabotage Chaim's support base.   Those who are tired of the fake rightwing groups will increasingly look toward JTF/Kahanist ideas.    I think Chaim would only be shooting himself in the foot to endorse a Likud that has strayed from its own platform, that is no longer nationalist but has become centrist, and seems destined to betray the Jewish people under Bibi.... again.  And even if Chaim did choose to risk this, I doubt they would help him get into Israel.   But maybe I'm wrong.

[DownwithIslam]

Yisrael Beteinyahu...ok, you would have an arguement here because they are the closest to what the Kahanist movement believes in..but that's also a stretch.

Uh, you're kidding right?   They're not even close.

I agree with you, KAHANEBT. Yisrael Beiteinu is about as close to kahane as al sharpton is to Einstein. While it's true that Yisrael Beiteinu is prob better than the Likud, we still cannot forget that Avigdor Lieberman wants to surrender land too.

[Manch]

How will Chaim's "support" for Likud get him a better chance of being allowed into Israel?   You're suggesting a quid pro quo of some sort?    Why would those backstabbing phonies posing as a supposed 'rightwing' in Likud ever live up to their end of any bargain, and furthermore, Chaim's endorsement of a phony so-called "rightwing" group that will only betray the national camp could sabotage Chaim's support base.   Those who are tired of the fake rightwing groups will increasingly look toward JTF/Kahanist ideas.    I think Chaim would only be shooting himself in the foot to endorse a Likud that has strayed from its own platform, that is no longer nationalist but has become centrist, and seems destined to betray the Jewish people under Bibi.... again.  And even if Chaim did choose to risk this, I doubt they would help him get into Israel.   But maybe I'm wrong.

Hi you make a very valid point about Likud but I don't agree with the whole idea of changing perception.
I was assuming that Chaim may have indirect channel of communication with any of the party that can lend its support to Chaim's return to Israel. Don't hangup on Likud/Bibi. I fear that expression of our support is quite irrelevant and none of the parties will find it enticing. I was only thinking of Bibi because, although we can't sway or affect this election, this could be perceived favorably when Chaim's next application is being reviewed. And, we support Palin, she is two-state solution supporter as well - we don't need to support the whole program in order to get Chaim into Israel - this is the most important objective, isn't? Besides Chaim is 52.

[eb22]

Manch,    though I appreciate your efforts and the opportunity to provide an interesting and informative discussion,    there's one additional thing that must be kept in mind.     During the time that Bibi was previously Prime Minister of Israel,    Chaim was forced to leave Israel after he landed in Israel.    Chaim wanted to make Aliyah.    Bibi prevented this from happening.      The end result is that over 12 years later,    Chaim is not even allowed to VISIT Israel,   let alone live there.      There's absolutely no way I would help promote Bibi in the upcoming election.      He's part of the problem,    not the solution.

[GoIsraelGo!]

At least nobody should ever be able to accuse Chaim of being a flip flopper. If he changes his mind, it's for a logical reason.

Hi Ruby, you have a great perception for common sense and it's values. You can see this in other people as well.   ^5


                                                                       Shalom - Dox

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Let's say hypothetically that your premise is correct and that Chaim could be given entrance into Israel if he were to cooperate with the Likudnikim.  (By the way, I think this entire premise is a fantasy but I will indulge it).  They would for sure make Chaim's entrance conditional  upon his willingness to sit quietly and go along with their appeasement and surrender policies.  Do you think Chaim would be willing to do that?  And do you think he would be willing to lie to them in order to make this happen?  A central aspect of Kahanism is honesty.  Chaim has always been very honest about his beliefs, even when they have seemed to hold him back.  So he's not about to lie to them.  Also, Israeli leaders are many things but they are not stupid people.  They know who Chaim is, who he follows, and that person that Chaim follows frightens the politicians of Israel like no other.  The only way Chaim will get into Israel is if there are enough people who demand it.

[Manch]

Let's say hypothetically that your premise is correct and that Chaim could be given entrance into Israel if he were to cooperate with the Likudnikim.  (By the way, I think this entire premise is a fantasy but I will indulge it).  They would for sure make Chaim's entrance conditional  upon his willingness to sit quietly and go along with their appeasement and surrender policies.  Do you think Chaim would be willing to do that?  And do you think he would be willing to lie to them in order to make this happen?  A central aspect of Kahanism is honesty.  Chaim has always been very honest about his beliefs, even when they have seemed to hold him back.  So he's not about to lie to them.  Also, Israeli leaders are many things but they are not stupid people.  They know who Chaim is, who he follows, and that person that Chaim follows frightens the politicians of Israel like no other.  The only way Chaim will get into Israel is if there are enough people who demand it.

Once Chaim gets a passport - he can't be expelled. I am aware that under Bibi Chaim was not allowed to enter. 12 years ago! But notice, I am not suggesting that support for Bibi will get him in. Perhaps it will increase his chances. Chaim has some high clout in Israel, perhaps it is possible to test the water before entering it with all 3 parties. They may say yes to change this disgraceful situation. We just don't know!

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

I'm sure Chaim will make good decision, my gut feeling tells me this is going to be the year Chaim makes it to Israel. We want to see Chaim in the Knesset and to carry forward the legacy of Rabbi Kahane. This will benefit israel and the Jewish people immensely. Once CHaim gets into Israel. It is only going to take few months for him to get a mass movement and support to get behind him. Hindu Nationalists want Kahanists to succeed. The sleeping people(self hating Jews) of Israel should wake up and behold the arrival of their great leader.

[Manch]

I'm sure Chaim will make good decision, my gut feeling tells me this is going to be the year Chaim makes it to Israel. We want to see Chaim in the Knesset and to carry forward the legacy of Rabbi Kahane. This will benefit israel and the Jewish people immensely. Once CHaim gets into Israel. It is only going to take few months for him to get a mass movement and support to get behind him. Hindu Nationalists want Kahanists to succeed. The sleeping people(self hating Jews) of Israel should wake up and behold the arrival of their great leader.

I hope you are right! The world will be a better place.

[Dr. Dan]

Yisrael Beteinyahu...ok, you would have an arguement here because they are the closest to what the Kahanist movement believes in..but that's also a stretch.

Uh, you're kidding right?   They're not even close.

I did say it was a stretch...