Blacks are insatiable!

[Masha]

I was very disgusted by this article:

http://www.uci.edu/uci/features/feature_wilderson_090203.php

UCI author envisions change
Frank Wilderson recounts Nelson Mandela's unfulfilled promise

In the 1990s, Frank B. Wilderson III lived the dying days of apartheid in South Africa, working as a university teacher, propagandist, and as one of two Americans elected to Nelson Mandela's governing party, the African National Congress.

In his recently released memoir, Incognegro, Wilderson, African American studies and drama professor, criticizes Mandela's presidency for failing to deliver on its promises of social equality and significant reform. He says that Mandela did not implement radical social change and carry out a redistribution of wealth that could have benefited millions of impoverished black South Africans.

"There was a tremendous expectation that the political and economic disenfranchisement of South Africa's black people would be done away with," he says. "This did not happen. What happened was that a black face was put on the structure of the same economic and racial inequalities.

"But it was harder to agitate and organize against that because this was 'your face.' So, the question was: Why are you still doing so poorly if your 'face' is president?"

Wilderson's different, less popular views on Mandela's era may be controversial, but he hopes Incognegro will bring clarity to his alternative perspective.

Wilderson also hopes readers will see parallels between what he witnessed in South Africa more than a decade ago and modern America at the dawn of the Obama presidency.

"I'm not sure if this new administration is willing or perhaps even able to address serious, unresolved issues any more than Nelson Mandela was, but we're going to have to feel good about it because it's 'our administration,'" Wilderson says. "We could be headed for the same situation here."

....

What a nerve these people have! My jaw just dropped reading this. The disenfranchisement WAS NOT done away with in South Africa? Really? And why, pray tell, is this? All political rights have been given to blacks. They ARE the majority. They ARE in power. What is their problem? Why do they still feel "disenfranchised"? Why is there still a "structure of of the same economic and racial inequalities"? Whose fault is it?

It's also interesting that he openly admits that Mandela's (and other black leader's) goal is not to usher in the era of racial harmony but to "redistribute wealth." Thank you for admitting this.

But let's step back and see what his qualm really is. His problem is that, despite the fact that blacks took power, raped, pillaged, and destroyed the country and the economy, and went on an unchecked killing spree of whites, the whites who have survived still seem to be better off economically. In other words, it doesn't help blacks to be in power, to have the demographic majority, and to oppress and treaten whites. The whites still end up being ahead. So what is the only logical conclusion? The only things to do is to kill whites. This author stops just short of advocating genocide. And this is what blacks are doing in South Africa. And this is what will happen in America as soon as the black and other hostile non-white population will reach a critical mass.

[Rubystars]

Yes they have a seething pit of hate in their hearts for whites because they don't understand what makes whites successful. Therefore they assume that it must be because of oppression, even when it's the whites who are actually being oppressed.

[Masha]

Yes they have a seething pit of hate in their hearts for whites because they don't understand what makes whites successful. Therefore they assume that it must be because of oppression, even when it's the whites who are actually being oppressed.

Yes, that's what gets me. If they are not as successful, it's because someone prevents them. AND WHO IS PREVENTING THEM NOW IN SOUTH AFRICA? Someone, you see, put "their face" on the political power? And who was that mysterious somebody?

[Ulli]

What a nut.

I thought social progress should be founded on the enabeling of people to help themselves.

This is the thought of bolschewik Saul Alinsky.

What is the purpose of stealing money and distribute it to poor people?

The only thing you do with this kind of policy is addiction and loss of real freedom.

Then out of free poor people become poor slaves of the gouvernment. This is progress?

I think this guy has understood nothing.  

[Rubystars]

If you give money to poor people they will remain poor because they don't know what to do with money. If they get more than they need to eat and have shelter and basic needs, they will spend it all. Either that or they'll just buy drugs and eat very little and live on the street.

[JewishAmericanPatriot]

Yes they have a seething pit of hate in their hearts for whites because they don't understand what makes whites successful. Therefore they assume that it must be because of oppression, even when it's the whites who are actually being oppressed.

Did you know that the Torah says that blacks labor under the curse of Ham? Are you familiar with that? It states that they will always be servants. Maybe this is why they cannot be a success?

I never accepted this until I began studying it, and finding out what rabbis have said about it. When I look at how blacks have never been able to sucessfully build any civilization, it makes me think the curse of Ham is true and does rest upon them.

[nessuno]

If you give money to poor people they will remain poor because they don't know what to do with money. If they get more than they need to eat and have shelter and basic needs, they will spend it all. Either that or they'll just buy drugs and eat very little and live on the street.

I value the 'things' I work hard to attain and the 'things' I have to work hard to keep.  That is the problem with giving a hand out it really has no value.

[Cato]

1. He is black, condemned even by Nelson Mandela for continuing to advocate an anti-establishment struggle even after the arrival of democracy. Jessie Jackson -  type U.S. politicians were hated by most S. African blacks.
2. No-one gets "elected to the ANC". You fill in a form  and produce some money.
3. He was indeed elected to a position, but by the Witwatersrand Branch of the ANC, which is mainly a bunch of white university liberals who had zero understanding of the country around them. The number of voters in the branch probably numbered a dozen at most, and as a figure in the party he was unknown. He never reached the ANC Executive as he seems to imply.

[Rubystars]

If you give money to poor people they will remain poor because they don't know what to do with money. If they get more than they need to eat and have shelter and basic needs, they will spend it all. Either that or they'll just buy drugs and eat very little and live on the street.

I value the 'things' I work hard to attain and the 'things' I have to work hard to keep.  That is the problem with giving a hand out it really has no value.

Yes it's much better to earn something nice than to be given it.

[Rubystars]

Yes they have a seething pit of hate in their hearts for whites because they don't understand what makes whites successful. Therefore they assume that it must be because of oppression, even when it's the whites who are actually being oppressed.

Did you know that the Torah says that blacks labor under the curse of Ham? Are you familiar with that? It states that they will always be servants. Maybe this is why they cannot be a success?

I've heard of that before but I'm not convinced that "Ham" was the father of blacks. Is that believed by everyone in Judaism?

I never accepted this until I began studying it, and finding out what rabbis have said about it. When I look at how blacks have never been able to sucessfully build any civilization, it makes me think the curse of Ham is true and does rest upon them.

I don't know if it's a curse. There are a lot of physical differences as far as brain structure and other things like that, that make relatively pure blacks well-adapted to life in Africa at a low population level but not so well-adapted to modern "civilized" life. Of course there are always exceptions and there have been some phenomenally bright black people, but most of those have white or other interracial admixture.

[muman613]

Yes they have a seething pit of hate in their hearts for whites because they don't understand what makes whites successful. Therefore they assume that it must be because of oppression, even when it's the whites who are actually being oppressed.

Did you know that the Torah says that blacks labor under the curse of Ham? Are you familiar with that? It states that they will always be servants. Maybe this is why they cannot be a success?

I've heard of that before but I'm not convinced that "Ham" was the father of blacks. Is that believed by everyone in Judaism?

I never accepted this until I began studying it, and finding out what rabbis have said about it. When I look at how blacks have never been able to sucessfully build any civilization, it makes me think the curse of Ham is true and does rest upon them.

I don't know if it's a curse. There are a lot of physical differences as far as brain structure and other things like that, that make relatively pure blacks well-adapted to life in Africa at a low population level but not so well-adapted to modern "civilized" life. Of course there are always exceptions and there have been some phenomenally bright black people, but most of those have white or other interracial admixture.

RS,

I have been thinking about this topic for quite some time. It is said that Eliezer, Avrahams servent, was a descendent of Ham and he was under the curse of Noah. This is why Eliezers daughter was not suited to marry Avrahams son Yitzak. But it has been said that Eliezer LOOKED LIKE Avraham. When Eliezer first met Laban he was addressed as the "Blessed One" because Laban mistook Eliezer for Avraham. This is when Eliezer transitioned from cursed to blessed. If Eliezer was black then that would mean that Avraham was black too. How could Eliezer LOOK LIKE Avraham if his skin was a different color? I have been looking for an answer to this question and have not heard that Ham was colored.

We know that the curse was on the Cannani, those who dwelled in Caanan.

If anyone who has studied Torah is reading this and knows a definite answer please speak up.

[Masha]

1. He is black, condemned even by Nelson Mandela for continuing to advocate an anti-establishment struggle even after the arrival of democracy. Jessie Jackson -  type U.S. politicians were hated by most S. African blacks.
2. No-one gets "elected to the ANC". You fill in a form  and produce some money.
3. He was indeed elected to a position, but by the Witwatersrand Branch of the ANC, which is mainly a bunch of white university liberals who had zero understanding of the country around them. The number of voters in the branch probably numbered a dozen at most, and as a figure in the party he was unknown. He never reached the ANC Executive as he seems to imply.

Are you from South Africa? My very liberal Jewish friend went to South Africa for 6 months. I think I wrote about her. She went as a volunteer. Which means she had to save money for several years (because she makes very little money as it is) in order to be able to afford to work as a volunteer for 6 months. We call such Jews "mishugene" (not sure about the spelling). She went to teach to a school that used to be white before the change of the regime. Now it's 100% black. All the white kids have been forced out.

My friend was invited to live with a teacher from the school - another white liberal. What this trip ended up being was a virtual house arrest, because, even though the teacher's house was right next door, it was too dangerous to walk there, no matter what time of the day. The teacher had to drive her to school. He had to drive her to the nearest food store. She was completely helpless and confined to the house. You couldn't walk anywhere there, you couldn't take public transportation, it was too dangerous. She relied on the mercy of this teacher and her other colleagues to show her around and take her places. So she didn't get to see so many places or experience the country. She came back - how should I say? - thoughtful. She was no longer sure that it is such a good idea to educate black children. She basically called them lazy and stupid, using euphemistic language.

However, she still remained a liberal. She said it was an "incredible experience" and she is dying to go back again.

[JewishAmericanPatriot]

This is what it says in RESPONSA OF MODERN JUDAISM by Rabbi Sholom Klass zt"l, c 1992, Jewish Press:

"We are taught that Cush, who was descended from Ham, Noah's son, was black (Sanhedrin 108b).

The Gemara tells us: Three had relations in Noah's ark, the dog, the raven and his son Ham and they were punished. Ham was smitten in skin, from him descended Cush who was blackskinned (Sanh. 108b).

The Midrash narrates (Beresheis Rabba 36): Noah cursed Ham when he awoke from sleep (Gen. 9) and he said, "You now made me unable to do things in the dark, therefore you should become dark complexioned". Cush was descended from Ham.

The descendants of Cush spread throughout Africa. They formed many kingdoms such as Abyssinia, Ethiopia. The Jews are descendants of Noah's son, Shem, who was white, the opposite of Cush."

I wonder if this is why so many Jews historically had black housekeepers, servants, etc., and so do Arabs as well as White Europeans? A friend of mine from Tennessee, who is older than me and remembers the days before the civil rights mvmt, said that blacks seemed happiest when they were servants. So who knows? Maybe they are basherte for that?

[muman613]

This is what it says in RESPONSA OF MODERN JUDAISM by Rabbi Sholom Klass zt"l, c 1992, Jewish Press:

"We are taught that Cush, who was descended from Ham, Noah's son, was black (Sanhedrin 108b).

The Gemara tells us: Three had relations in Noah's ark, the dog, the raven and his son Ham and they were punished. Ham was smitten in skin, from him descended Cush who was blackskinned (Sanh. 108b).

The Midrash narrates (Beresheis Rabba 36): Noah cursed Ham when he awoke from sleep (Gen. 9) and he said, "You now made me unable to do things in the dark, therefore you should become dark complexioned". Cush was descended from Ham.

The descendants of Cush spread throughout Africa. They formed many kingdoms such as Abyssinia, Ethiopia. The Jews are descendants of Noah's son, Shem, who was white, the opposite of Cush."

I wonder if this is why so many Jews historically had black housekeepers, servants, etc., and so do Arabs as well as White Europeans? A friend of mine from Tennessee, who is older than me and remembers the days before the civil rights mvmt, said that blacks seemed happiest when they were servants. So who knows? Maybe they are basherte for that?

Yes it is well known that Cush is the race of the Black skinned. But what I dont understand is how can Ham be both Cannanites and Cushites?

[muman613]

Now I understand..

http://www.noahidenations.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323

[JewishAmericanPatriot]

There were rabbis during the War Between the States here in the USA who advocated slavery as being consistent with Halacha:

http://www.jewish-history.com/civilwar/raphall.html

[Rubystars]

I think that certain tribes of Africa and the Middle East may be descended from Ham but that not all of any one race is descended from him. I could be wrong though and I'm not exactly an expert. It would be a good question for the Ask Judea Torah Show or Ask JTF though.